2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

Do you want ship and module transfer, if so how long should it take?

  • Yes, I want ship transfer.

    Votes: 1,869 71.1%
  • No, I don't want ship transfer.

    Votes: 90 3.4%
  • Yes, I want module transfer.

    Votes: 1,522 57.9%
  • No, I don't want module transfer.

    Votes: 137 5.2%
  • Transfer should be instant.

    Votes: 638 24.3%
  • Transfer should take a small fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 656 25.0%
  • Transfer should take a large fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 585 22.3%
  • Transfer should take at least as long as it would take manually.

    Votes: 696 26.5%

  • Total voters
    2,629
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
I took the time to level up almost all of the engineers and got three of my most used ships to G5 on pretty much everything I deemed important; my FdL, for instance, is amazing with its new modules. Coincidentally, one of those modules is a G5 FSD which will be rendered useless after 2.2 launches. So I'm very pleased with the engineers in general. With or without the roulette wheel, if you take the time to use them, you get some pretty nifty new tools to put in your box. Obviously this feature is really for players who don't mind rolling up their sleeves and drilling down into how to get the most out of the mechanic. It's pretty easy to see how an advocate of insta travel wouldn't like it much:)

Straw manning much? You know why I dislike the Engineers and it's nothing to do with what's happening here. Maybe when they stop trying to ride the crazy train I'll be a little more interested in your supposed reasons why people should care over a QoL change that's likely going to make a lot of peoples' lives a lot more bearable :)
 
You cannot "teleport" a ship into anarchy.
You can call it there after you traveled there in the first place.
You don't remove anything.
Do you really think my 250 mw shield 380 armor asp is the prime choice to go somewhere unsafe over my 2000 mw shield 1000 armor corvette?
You can go into anarchy in your ASP and magic an vulture on the way out.

Long range fighters are pointless now.

Yes travel is boring but there is a full scale meta behind ship builds that will just stop being a thing in 2 months.

Immersion is going to just go when all players enter a system in an ASP and leave in a warship/tradeship

If they go down that route ALL ships need to be fully reballanced

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Straw manning much? You know why I dislike the Engineers and it's nothing to do with what's happening here. Maybe when they stop trying to ride the crazy train I'll be a little more interested in your supposed reasons why people should care over a QoL change that's likely going to make a lot of peoples' lives a lot more bearable :)
Unlike ship transfer engineers make sense.
There is lore behind engineers , they are crazy tweakers who like to mess with tech
 
Going to throw in a few thoughts here. If they've been covered already, I apologise (this is a really big thread).

I don't believe cost is a great mechanism to control the usage of ship transfer. If (when?) exploits become apparent, it's likely any high costs will still justify the use anyway. And if you make the costs too high, then you've just taken the feature away from many poorer players. It is possible to have a lot of fun with this game and build a collection of cheaper ships without racking up huge profits.

I hope that FD starts looking at this right now. Reason? As it stands, the 'cost' seems to be the only thing that can be tweaked during beta testing. You can't tweak time-delay if that code isn't there. And tweaking anything on cost in beta is a waste of time anyway. So if they are going to look at other functionality to add to ship transfer, now would be the time.

There have been a couple of comments I've seen about intra-system travel. If we can have insta-magic transfers, why can't we have intra-system jumping? This is another thing I wouldn't want to see, but the logic seems to stand. If you're going to facilitate gameplay in one area, why not others? Also, travel time/difficulty has often been an argument (from players) against implementing auto-pilot. If time/difficulty is no longer relevant, maybe we can start looking at that too?
 
You can go into anarchy in your ASP and magic an vulture on the way out.

Long range fighters are pointless now.

Yes travel is boring but there is a full scale meta behind ship builds that will just stop being a thing in 2 months.

Immersion is going to just go when all players enter a system in an ASP and leave in a warship/tradeship

If they go down that route ALL ships need to be fully reballanced

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


Unlike ship transfer engineers make sense.
There is lore behind engineers , they are crazy tweakers who like to mess with tech

No, there's no defensible rationale for the idiocy of RNG rewards for the hellish grind you have to go through to get the mats and the access to the engineers in the first place. None outside of the same lunacy that's fuelling the threadnaught that seeks to prevent the QoL change going through here, it's the same fishbowl mentality of "IT MUST BE OUR WAY OR NO WAY"

Maybe Frontier don't just cater for you lot, y'know? They have people called customers they need to reach out to, and cutting down travel grind helps them get those customers.
 
We want players to own different ships
OK

we want players to specialise those ships to do different things
OK

but the galaxy is so large we needed a way to get the ships to you..
OK, I'm thinking hire an NPC to fly the ship to a location that I designate and watch it fly there in real time using the established rules.

basically we needed a way to get the ships in your pocket so wherever you are, whatever you are doing, you've always got the right ship for the job
Um no, no, no. A thousand times no. Space is big. Travel takes time (I'm a Distant Worlder, I should know). This is the point at which somebody should have been slapped down hard.

They did in the stream give the impression that the ideology of insta-port was part of what they were offering. Swap roles in an instant. They appear to think we want a situation where we can pull in whatever craft we want at any time.
I think it's important they see the reaction now. So if this isn't something interesting to people, or they feel they've made their point, there's no suggestion you have to follow the thread. I think a big thread, and a big debate will offer FDev some of the arguments against the ideology they are proposing, which essentially is a simplification in the immersion mechanics to help operate a growing Elite universe. Problem is, it's a game-destructive method to address that issue.

You nailed it. Game-destructive is putting it mildly.
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Yet again a few 'hardcore' "fans" seek to dictate what's an acceptable way to have fun.
UA bombing Sothis or trying to put a halt to ship transfer... it's all about making the game less accessible and creating a hostile environment for casual players.

If you want to, wait a week before using a transferred ship - play your way, but don't dictate to others.

This is not about trying to stop ship transfer. Ship transfer is needed and was discussed very early in the DDF (Frontier said NO WAY! back then btw! If you're interested (so few are) you can read the DDF discussion on it, which was actually very well thought out, and the resultant proposal by FD which they decided they'd never implement).

What the issue is, is that *instant* ship transfer has massive ramifications for the game - it will change many aspects of it, from rendering shipyards and outfitting redundant, to making loadouts above a size 2 FSD in anything but a fast taxi ship (and especially Engineer FSDs) redundant, and changing the BGS and PP due to the speed with which players can now react with different ships.

The majority of people want ship transfer, that's a given, and it's need. But the majority do not want instant transfers.

It's a very important distinction.
 
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frontier was a SINGLE PLAYER game. therefore no one give a pankake if you use it or not, juts like no one give a dam if you manipulate your save file to have unlimited credits in a single player game.

Is there any particular reason that you're raging at me when I said in my post that I'd be perfectly happy if the game didn't even have it at all? Or were you just so desperate to work out your pent-up frustration that you decided to jump on my neck because it was the first post that you read?

why did the dev sold me a space sim

Because they didn't. This is not a pure science sim and has never been marketed as being a pure science sim. Developer posts on the forum have confirmed this multiple times.

edit: to all thoses who like this ideas of instant or short delay ship transfer and are like "my time is precious":
what part of "space simulation" did you not understood when you bought the game ? (is this due to the xbox one release ?!)

See above. I think you're the one who is having issues understanding what he bought.

Now before you go off the top board again, read the bit where I said I DO NOT CARE WHETHER WE EVEN HAVE IT again.
 
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My point is there is possibly more chance of meeting an empty ship being used as a 'taxi' (in future), rather than a trade ship actually going somewhere (now). I agree that the actual difference in chances is probably fairly negligible.

I'm expecting to see a lot more variation in ships about, since we won't just be seeing the same few high-range ships we normally do.

You just dictated to the voting majority in this thread.

I dictated they shouldn't dictate. I didn't try to limit or change how they play.
 
Yet again a few 'hardcore' "fans" seek to dictate what's an acceptable way to have fun.
UA bombing Sothis or trying to put a halt to ship transfer... it's all about making the game less accessible and creating a hostile environment for casual players.

If you want to, wait a week before using a transferred ship - play your way, but don't dictate to others.


They aren't trying to 'dictate' anything to anyone. They have one (of many) reasons they enjoy this game. It IS a great representation of space and the time needed to move through it. They enjoy that experience...if I had the time (which I have had!) I would, and did. It would appear that the devs are seeing the time constraints as problematic, and possibly unnecessary and are moving in easing some of them.

On the compromise side of this discussion...I have no problem with time constraints...it just means I will play something else that night and play where I pick up the next night. So, it still increases my ability to play...but does not help me if someone says 'Meet me here tonight and we'll...'. Which means the same problem is inherent to the game. People with short time will not bother to play it.
 
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You cannot "teleport" a ship into anarchy.
You can call it there after you traveled there in the first place.
You don't remove anything.
Do you really think my 250 mw shield 380 armor asp is the prime choice to go somewhere unsafe over my 2000 mw shield 1000 armor corvette?

So you regularly trade in the corvette? you missed the point. I can put a ship with barely a few mil rebuy on the line, or 20+ mil on the line. You tell me?

I'm taking a step back to see what this could be used for and its litterally anything, anywhere, any time. That's probably not intended. Maybe it is, and Samdro has decided that hopped up jump drives aren't enough; might as well make them redundant.

I don't really know. I do know that as it stands, it makes distances trivial and the game will shrink accordingly. It already has with FSD mods but that does mean people still have to drive places in various ships. Who is going to fly FDL 350ly now? 80k or something and it's moved and a single bounty, maybe two will cover the cost. L

It'll be used constantly because there is no reason not to. There's no value proposition flying FDL outside of the system that ts in. None. I just believe a little more thought into how the mechanic works, might be a good idea. That's it. I don't want ship transfer to suck. But I think making it the defacto choice for many ships is possibly not the best approach.

And to gate it to money makes it a rich kids play thing.
 
So i already made a suggestion a while back about creating some sort of rested XP like thing to allow people a limited "instant" transfer. It got me to thinking, how about one instant transfer every 20 hours? If you want to move another ship you need to do it manually.

several sorts of delays have been proposed. all might be well but ... i still don't get it. why would you want to overcomplicate this? there is no need to fake a delay. you want a ship transferred to you? sure! it will come to you flown by a distinguished and bulletproof npc, for a fee and AT THE SHIP'S STANDARD SPEED. still the most logical, straight forward and reasonable solution for me ...
 
Let me put this a little more simply, I can spend my hour and a half a night slogging through empty space, moving ships to be ready to play my next night (if my goal doesn't change), or play any other of the 200+ games in my game list and make a serious change to my standing in any single one of those....and actually have fun doing whatever activity any of those other games might offer.

Sometimes I don't mind...most of the time, I do...and play another game.

What is funny? I see a lot of my old crew from E: D playing other games while in Discord...

It appears that this loss of players is causing the devs some consternation...and removing some of the time required might bring some folks back to the game...it might not.

One other thing, this is not 'dumbing down' the game...it is just making the game more accessible for those that do not have the 'hardcore' time necessary to be bothered to 'play'.


yea welll.. you know, they are TONS of other game outhere more sutable for them. and just adding ship transfers will not make them come here due to all the other things (super cruise, slow start, to big etc ... )
the game will juste become a mess, trying to apeal to a more casual target but failing miserably because the main trait of this game is showing and feeling how big space is. It s a nich game at its core
be abble to teleport or "wormhole" them so that they can come faster than it normaly could will just destroy it. and why?
because some (wrongly?) bought this game or played "too much" and now are fed up with the travels.aka: the core feature of this game...

so yea, i can understand that someone with thousands of hours in game time is fed up with supercruise or jumping ...

but to you i just want to say: dude ... take a break .


because else, what s next ? instant teleport to avoid supercruise ? buys ship just like we can sell them in 2.2 ? rending anykind of travel meaningless
(buy from li yong-rui's system and get it deliver to you whenever you are ! [heart] )
 
You can go into anarchy in your ASP and magic an vulture on the way out.


If they go down that route ALL ships need to be fully reballanced

Right, in order balance things to make it so that everyone doesn't all fly the same ships, they'll have to make all ships have roughly the same range potential.
 
Is it me, or is it the juxtaposition of engineer mods that require endless time investment, at odds with instant ship transport?

I am 100% in favour of ship transport. This is very welcome. It does stand in stark contrast to engineers though. It's like the developer believes the game is worth investing time in. Unless it's moving ships in which case go crazy insert coins and press a key to continue.

Link that to FSD ranges across ships, and it's a head scratcher. Do frontier want space to be big and interesting and worth spending time in, or not?
 
Right, in order balance things to make it so that everyone doesn't all fly the same ships, they'll have to make all ships have roughly the same range potential.


And since I am certain that if the Anaconda's top FSD range was nerfed, it would be a really sad-Anaconda... That would likely become the baseline FSD range for most every ship.
 
Is it me, or is it the juxtaposition of engineer mods that require endless time investment, at odds with instant ship transport?

No, it's not you, that contrast wasn't lost on me either. Much like this threadnaught, the crazy train has no brakes. I see instant ship teleportation as FDev going for the whole pig, as opposed to just the Bacon. I mean, they've managed to divorce the concept of reward from effort with Engineers (because hey, a bad roll can leave you with a module that's virtually no better than stock and in some ways worse for a weeks work) and now they're divorcing time from distance! All that's missing is for the ships to have external speakers that blast out ten seconds of Skrillex every time you score a player kill, direct to the other persons' computer.
 
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yea welll.. you know, they are TONS of other game outhere more sutable for them. and just adding ship transfers will not make them come here due to all the other things (super cruise, slow start, to big etc ... )
the game will juste become a mess, trying to apeal to a more casual target but failing miserably because the main trait of this game is showing and feeling how big space is. It s a nich game at its core
be abble to teleport or "wormhole" them so that they can come faster than it normaly could will just destroy it. and why?
because some (wrongly?) bought this game or played "too much" and now are fed up with the travels.aka: the core feature of this game...

so yea, i can understand that someone with thousands of hours in game time is fed up with supercruise or jumping ...

but to you i just want to say: dude ... take a break .


because else, what s next ? instant teleport to avoid supercruise ? buys ship just like we can sell them in 2.2 ? rending anykind of travel meaningless
(buy from li yong-rui's system and get it deliver to you whenever you are ! [heart] )

Indeed. Why have a galaxy at all? Just have one system then we won't have any space travel getting in the way of people's 'gameplay'.
 
yea welll.. you know, they are TONS of other game outhere more sutable for them. and just adding ship transfers will not make them come here due to all the other things (super cruise, slow start, to big etc ... )
the game will juste become a mess, trying to apeal to a more casual target but failing miserably because the main trait of this game is showing and feeling how big space is. It s a nich game at its core
be abble to teleport or "wormhole" them so that they can come faster than it normaly could will just destroy it. and why?
because some (wrongly?) bought this game or played "too much" and now are fed up with the travels.aka: the core feature of this game...

so yea, i can understand that someone with thousands of hours in game time is fed up with supercruise or jumping ...

but to you i just want to say: dude ... take a break .


because else, what s next ? instant teleport to avoid supercruise ? buys ship just like we can sell them in 2.2 ? rending anykind of travel meaningless
(buy from li yong-rui's system and get it deliver to you whenever you are ! [heart] )


As the market shrinks, development time lines lengthen. I do understand the issue...and I make my choices. 'What's next?' Who knows. Seriously. The game could close down for lack of interest because people can't be bothered to work....in a game. The program leans more to simulation than game in a lot of respects...and the simulation market is much smaller (although way more dedicated!) than the general gaming market. I've always believed the game would support development with a very small number of customers...but when I see changes like this, it makes me wonder if the devs are coming close to a threshold.

Another suggestion for 'why?' Moving ships was SUPPOSED to be something that could be contracted for...but it appears that is now out the window...and since that is not going to be added at any point...then easy transport is the way to go.

As far as the Yong-Rui 'problem', certainly increases the importance of THAT power in the game now....wonder if there will be repercussions within PowerPlay now?
 
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No, there's no defensible rationale for the idiocy of RNG rewards for the hellish grind you have to go through to get the mats and the access to the engineers in the first place.

Not the place for this, but having just casually got myself a level 4 FSD drive and enjoying a level 3 dirty engine, I really think Engineers is still very much a problem as to how its played rather than what it is.

However, regardless of issues of the actual mechanics, the mechanics do make sense: Engineers take ships which run to a factory spec and tweak them in ways they aren't meant to be tweaked using raw or salvaged materials and components to push them beyond their spec design. That makes sense. RNG, as frustrating as it can be for some for various reasons, can fit into that ideology as we're dealing with unpredictable, experimental changes to a factory build resulting in different levels of success. Yes, there are arguments against that, but as a narrative, the gameplay does fit the immersion, even if not to everyone's desires. There are indeed some trade offs from that immersion - no one's dirty drives have blown out in the middle of space - something you'd expect from overclocking your factory ship on occasions. But that's where gameplay trumps immersion - just as no one is saying we should really RNG the transport of ships... your ship could fall foul to pirates en route... would bound to happen to some commanders. No one is arguing that as it again doesn't really balance out gameplay with immersion.

The point is, whether you like the Engineers or dislike them, and there are valid debates on that from both sides, the Engineers fit the world of Elite. RNG actually fits the world of Elite over instant-teleport. RNG is unfair, unpredictable. You don't always get the reward you want... just like life. Consession is whether that's too frustrating as a gameplay element, yes a valid topic, but it does fit Elite Dangerous. Instant Transport does not in anyway. You can't justify it as part of the immersion, and as a gameplay mechanic it damages the game significantly. Yes, Engineers could be accused a little of that. My Python loadout now outruns my Cobra with thrusters and my old Asp in FSD (no, the Asp wasn't an Explor-Asp, but 26 jump range seems pretty big for a Python). That does sort of blur ship classes, but it does have rationale within the Elite narrative and as a gameplay element (we love souped up ships!).

None outside of the same lunacy that's fuelling the threadnaught that seeks to prevent the QoL change going through here, it's the same fishbowl mentality of "IT MUST BE OUR WAY OR NO WAY"

Not seeing that - people are asking FDev to consider some of the issues that they've seen as players. Go from there. No one has said it has to be done as X really, just it shouldn't be done as Y: let's talk on the rest.

Maybe Frontier don't just cater for you lot, y'know? They have people called customers they need to reach out to, and cutting down travel grind helps them get those customers.

Yes, but so do cheat modes. And what happens when people get what they want through cheat modes? Watch how quickly they get bored of the game they're playing. When we get what we want, what we have loses value, and that's very much at the core here. This is a BIG change. A BIG reward. And in game mechanics, a BIG reward requires a trade off - and there is no trade off here. Just a simple Elite ideology breaking "cheat" to get your ship to a player without having to navigate any factor of the set-up universe. Why? because they want it. Is that really a good enough excuse? I want a Corvette? Can I instant-have one?

Offer people what they want, they'll often say yes and think about it later. Doesn't mean it's right.
 
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