No it is not a misnomer at all. A game can simulate real or fictional reality!
2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter Kintch
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No it is not a misnomer at all. A game can simulate real or fictional reality!
Well, to get faster from A to B and summon the fun ship there
Lets try to understand the goal of the feature; suppose you are flying in a Type-9 and you see a combat zone... Do you want to keep flying around in your Type-9 for half an hour while you wait for the ship transfer to complete, or do you want to dock, call up your other ship and go shoot stuff? Because that is the point of the ship transfer feature as described by the game designers. Adding a wait time adds nothing to this experience at the cost of forcing someone to wait for literally no reason. This is a game, and you are trying to stop people from playing the game.
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You really are ... Person of great width.
Then I suppose World of Warcraft is a sim as well.
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
Well, to get faster from A to B and summon the fun ship there
So the sole argument for this instant travel is so players can pew-pew each other in a remote location faster.
I wish there was some form of arena we could do that in, where everyone could just go instantly and shoot at each other. That would be nice. And make no sense in-game, but not add any potential exploits.
Say CMDR A & B want to play together.
A is in a T6, B in a Cobra. They have 1h to play BH together. Luckily they are close, so in 5 min they are at the same place.
However A's viper is 180 lyr out.
> instant transfer => get the viper, play together.
> transfer takes 20 min => ??? One goes BH and the other trades ? Can you do any real trading in 20 min ? Then play 50% of the session together ? Force A & B to do the Oh so fun escort game ?
Most likely outcome, A&B go play an other game with zero entry time tax.
A is in a T6, B in a Cobra. They have 1h to play BH together. Luckily they are close, so in 5 min they are at the same place.
However A's viper is 180 lyr out.
> instant transfer => get the viper, play together.
> transfer takes 20 min => ??? One goes BH and the other trades ? Can you do any real trading in 20 min ? Then play 50% of the session together ? Force A & B to do the Oh so fun escort game ?
Most likely outcome, A&B go play an other game with zero entry time tax.
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Panticus
Banned
This instant transfer idea is red rag to a bull for the group of people who love wasting time in supercruise and staring at a dot. Instead of 'hit X to win' why not map ship transfer to the X key, and a supercruise autopilot too?
Then we can X to transfer, hold down X for auto-supercruise. I'd be happy
Seriously tho., if there's a delay, keep it simple: 1 minute per lightyear. Plus a single fee depending on ship value, maybe 2-5%*. Nothing excessive.
There's so much to do in ED ! I'm sure folks will be able to fill their time doing something..!
(*They're all single pilot ships - so if you're paying pilotage, the tonnage doesn't really matter. The % is just for balancing for less wealthy players.)
Then we can X to transfer, hold down X for auto-supercruise. I'd be happy
Seriously tho., if there's a delay, keep it simple: 1 minute per lightyear. Plus a single fee depending on ship value, maybe 2-5%*. Nothing excessive.
There's so much to do in ED
! I'm sure folks will be able to fill their time doing something..!(*They're all single pilot ships - so if you're paying pilotage, the tonnage doesn't really matter. The % is just for balancing for less wealthy players.)
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I gave up on reading the whole thread at around page 10, so apologies if this has been talked through at length.
I very much dislike the instant movement. And not only on the immersion breaking grounds (which is bad enough), but on the scope to allow all sorts of exploits.
However, if we must have very quick ship movement, then at least make sure the damn ship can make it to the destination. Otherwise we will have the long jump taxis sucking the combat ships that cannot jump all over the place. Of course, that needs reasonably development work, whereas instant transportation can be knocked out by one man and a dog in an afternoon, and allow time for tea breaks.
I have another major concern: the exploits possible with crews. Sure, we don't know what FD intend with crews (a feature that I find wholly worthless, FWIW). But they must be allowing some level of instant teleporting of players, or it will not work. Real life means that getting all your mates together is hard enough, without having to synchronise getting them to the same in-game place. So I anticipate some sort of teleporting into a crewed ship. Similarly, your mates will not be able to all play for the same length of time, and some will have to leave early, whatever that means. Forcing an escape-capsule like teleport to where you were when you joined will cause a huge pile of complaints. So that suggests some sort of mechanism to allow players who were crew to arrive somewhere without a ship - at which point they will want to use the instant teleport of the ship.
So then we get the one player with a long jump taxi doing the travel with several mates who all then teleport their ships around, and call more mates as crew who then teleport their ships, and so on. Whole gangs of baddies being teleported around.
I very much dislike the instant movement. And not only on the immersion breaking grounds (which is bad enough), but on the scope to allow all sorts of exploits.
However, if we must have very quick ship movement, then at least make sure the damn ship can make it to the destination. Otherwise we will have the long jump taxis sucking the combat ships that cannot jump all over the place. Of course, that needs reasonably development work, whereas instant transportation can be knocked out by one man and a dog in an afternoon, and allow time for tea breaks.
I have another major concern: the exploits possible with crews. Sure, we don't know what FD intend with crews (a feature that I find wholly worthless, FWIW). But they must be allowing some level of instant teleporting of players, or it will not work. Real life means that getting all your mates together is hard enough, without having to synchronise getting them to the same in-game place. So I anticipate some sort of teleporting into a crewed ship. Similarly, your mates will not be able to all play for the same length of time, and some will have to leave early, whatever that means. Forcing an escape-capsule like teleport to where you were when you joined will cause a huge pile of complaints. So that suggests some sort of mechanism to allow players who were crew to arrive somewhere without a ship - at which point they will want to use the instant teleport of the ship.
So then we get the one player with a long jump taxi doing the travel with several mates who all then teleport their ships around, and call more mates as crew who then teleport their ships, and so on. Whole gangs of baddies being teleported around.
I think it's highly likely FD's decision had very little to do with "wanting to improve gameplay", and instead had a lot more to do with "being able to deliver ship transfer with minimal dev effort".
If they had been coming at it cleanly, they would have drawn up something like this...
- Open Galaxy Map
- Select target star system
- Open System Map
- Select a station (or, for Horizons owners, planetary base)
- Press new TRANSFER SHIP icon
- Choose ship from list of your ships that suit dock size.
- Get presented with cost (and arrival date/time, if implemented).
- OK/CANCEL
- "Mail" arrives when ship is available.
That, unfortunately, loses out to:
- Open Shipyard Transfer Tab
- Select Ship
- Get presented with cost
- OK/CANCEL
- Ship arrives
I'm not kidding myself that this is a big gameplay paradigm shift. No, I reckon this one is all about dev effort required.
Which is very unfortunate, I feel.
If they had been coming at it cleanly, they would have drawn up something like this...
- Open Galaxy Map
- Select target star system
- Open System Map
- Select a station (or, for Horizons owners, planetary base)
- Press new TRANSFER SHIP icon
- Choose ship from list of your ships that suit dock size.
- Get presented with cost (and arrival date/time, if implemented).
- OK/CANCEL
- "Mail" arrives when ship is available.
That, unfortunately, loses out to:
- Open Shipyard Transfer Tab
- Select Ship
- Get presented with cost
- OK/CANCEL
- Ship arrives
I'm not kidding myself that this is a big gameplay paradigm shift. No, I reckon this one is all about dev effort required.
Which is very unfortunate, I feel.
Yes of course it is. It simulates the world of whatever that world is called. It has rules. What games would you call simulations? DCS? Well I could find a hundred things that are unrealistic in that and you would not change your stance.
Goose4291
Banned
Because it's not about fun. It's about min-maxing your time to achieve as much as possible with minimal investment as per most modern MMO's
Nice idea! They should add something like that.
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
If I am trading in my T9 I would assume I have trades to make or I enjoy trading. Make a quick stop, order ship, make a trade, profit, jump in pew-pew ship, pew-pew. If all i care about ever is pew-pew, why would I be in a T9? Unless I'm Driver777 of course.
Meanwhile to save me a few minutes of trading we create potential exploits, ruin the consistency of the game and make the size of the galaxy map meaningless. Sounds like a lot of loss for a very small gain.
Actually they really should have an arena mode that lets players bring their own ships in. But Arena like everything else seems to have been forgotten about.
That's pretty much a situation I'd find myself in actually. Oh heck there's a new X out here but I'm in a bad ship for it or this station has a ton of this mission and I don't have the proper modules/ship... and it's going to take me an hour to get the proper equip back here.. but I only have an hour to play right now... Feels bad man.
With all due respect Fdev have not given us an explanation as to the lore or method of this instar-jumping so every explanation falls flat on it's face. it's all just conjecture at this stage but if your thinking massive cargo ship they would not cover unlimited distances instantly either and i have already talked about a ridicules idea that every station has 50,000 anacondas parked out the back or 3D printers making space ships non of these explanations are plausible.
The best is a giant cargo vessel then there needs to be an equivalent delay unless there is worm holes but that messes things up even more, face it, it's a problem explaining it anyway. but thats not my concern, I,m only concerned about the unintended consequences of the instant jump which are well explained throughout this thread.
I honestly don't believe this "Type-9" example even exists.
Who flies any new route in a Lakon Type-9? Any route that isn't 1000% checked out and fully known in advance.
And it's not like combat zones are rare and special. Any time you want to find a combat zone, you bring up the Galaxy Map and filter on COMBAT ZONE. Who looks out the window of a Type-9 and thinks anything but, "Jeezus, got to get this lump docked quick and quiet, then load up again, without any trouble!".
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i see what you are saying but "fun to you" may be gamebreaking for others, it isnt about wanting to stop your fun, however for better or for worse ED is not a single player game where you can turn on cheats to do what you want.
how is "I do not have time to get my ship to a conflict zone to play with people" any different to "i do not have time to grind to an A rated fully engineered FDL therefore the game wont let me have my fun"?.
I am not having a go, and i do sympathise but i thought the ship transport WAS the compromise, instant ship transfer seems to be jumping from 1 extreme of having to taxi ships from one place to another, to the other extreme of unbelievable magic.
And i found sandro et all making a joke about it really rather worrying to be honest. Clearly they disagree with those of us who want a game free of magic, but to mock those worried it was breaking the game was taking it too far imo.
either way tho it would be nice to have some dev thoughts on this threadnaught.
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