General Gamescom Thoughts - Great Game Undersold?

[WolfishHickory]

Just some thoughts and discussion points really.

I really enjoyed the livestreams and 2.2 looks like a nice move forward – great job by the guys presenting. I will confess to being slightly disappointed by the level of silence on what comes after 2.2 and especially what happens next season. What I think has compounded that I think is that I worry FD are underselling themselves a bit. My various news feeds have all been about No Man’s Sky and Start Citizen which is frustrating given that I think FD is doing (or in the majority of cases, has done) most of the stuff first and best.

If I were an average joe, not into space games, even if I were into gaming generally I think I could be forgiven for thinking Hello Games pulled off a completely new and miraculous feat, not one that was pulled off 13 years ago on one floppy disk by a company actively developing a game seeking to do, and well on the way to doing, the same thing again with modern technology and at a much higher level of ambition than Hello Games. Which is not to detract from No Man’s Sky because I’m really enjoying it, it’s just a completely different thing from ED in experience and intent and should have been marketed as a casual, experience-based game from the start.

What NMS has, however, is one massive headline feature – seamless landings on a near infinite number of vibrant, populated, atmospheric planets on which you get to explore and catalogue things. I also think it has a strong identity and brand and for me, actually, a very clear, concise and compelling gameplay loop however much the hype has obscured that. Again, its not a sim it’s a casual game - I don’t see it as competing with ED in this respect and am not seeking to draw comparisons or criticise ED. ED has different aims and challenges but there’s no reason for the press or average joe to appreciate that unless FD position themselves and point it out to them.

Likewise the Star Citizen conference at Gamescom had huge wow factor and a massive headline feature – seamless landings on realistic detailed atmospheric planets etc. etc. i’m sure we’ve all seen it. SC could well be competing with ED except for the fact that it doesn’t exist yet. But again there is no reason for anyone apart from us to appreciate that level of detail if they aren’t told. As far as the Average Joe is concerned (hell, as far as the fanboys are concerned) you can now land on, and walk around, atmospheric populated planets in SC, but not ED. However untrue that may be. I look forward to doing so in ED and SC, but it’s a ways off for both…

And this is the best way I can sum up what frustrated me about Gamescom. I love the game - for all its faults, ED is the only thing that exists that allows me to fly a spaceship and land it on a planet. Playing in VR it is less a game and more of a miracle. The reality is at this moment in time that it is streaks ahead of all the other space games but I get the feeling few people know or care because FD are so focussed (some would say very admirably and honestly) on the now.

What I think you have in peoples’ minds is a comparison between what the press hyped NMS up to be, what SC will be in 4-5 years, and what ED is now. That’s what concerns me; is it a big business error on FD’s part not to be making big promises for the future and showing work in progress loud and proud?

So yeah thoughts and feelings, feel free to flame me into oblivion J

 

[Yaffle]

There has to be a balance, and while I'd agree FD is too silent, it avoids issues such as the NMS ones surrounding the expectations gap on launch. That's not to say NMS isn't good, it's just, I feel, not what many expected it to be for whatever reason. With SC it's hard to tell, there is no game yet. CIG are masters of hype and noise making, fund raising and other marketing things. FD simply are not.

It might be a British thing, it is certainly a different approach. Does it work? Well, FD seems successful. Would more noise help? undoubtedly, but the nature of Elite is somewhat niche so it's important people know what it is before starting in order to avoid disappointment.

 

[WolfishHickory]

There has to be a balance, and while I'd agree FD is too silent, it avoids issues such as the NMS ones surrounding the expectations gap on launch. That's not to say NMS isn't good, it's just, I feel, not what many expected it to be for whatever reason. With SC it's hard to tell, there is no game yet. CIG are masters of hype and noise making, fund raising and other marketing things. FD simply are not.

It might be a British thing, it is certainly a different approach. Does it work? Well, FD seems successful. Would more noise help? undoubtedly, but the nature of Elite is somewhat niche so it's important people know what it is before starting in order to avoid disappointment.

Completely agree. Hopefully nice, British guys don't finish last.

Must he a hard balancing act.

 

[Bobbydylan]

Completely agree. Hopefully nice, British guys don't finish last.

Must he a hard balancing act.

They seem to finish Second, but we ninja'd China there!

 

[Monk]

This is the new normal.

Frontier probably decided they are uncomfortable with the level of hype and theory-crafting we get into whenever they tease us with unfinished stuff. They likely want to avoid the unrealistic expectations put into concepts that don't ultimately live up to what people create on the forums and in their minds.

I'm sure they feel they have been burned by the community while also the community feels let down by the devs. On paper, it is a lose-lose situation. They could be completely transparent, instead of using teases and the like but that isn't always great for marketing and Frontier loves their surprises.

So, while I'd prefer full transparency into what is going on, I get it.

Just look at NMS (and some previous ED updates) to see the kind of backlash and vitriol that can come from letting gamers down.

 

[DefiledDragon]

There's already far too much hype around video games and in 99.99 percent of cases it turns out to be completely unjustified and the games usually end up disappointing many people as a result. I think it's good that FD have stopped following this trend. At the end of the day, a great game will sell on it's own virtues and by simple word of mouth. Hype might drive pre-orders and initial sales, but it can also result in mass refunds. A truly great game will sell for years after launch.

 

[Cynaqq]

There's already far too much hype around video games and in 99.99 percent of cases it turns out to be completely unjustified and the games usually end up disappointing many people as a result. I think it's good that FD have stopped following this trend. At the end of the day, a great game will sell on it's own virtues and by simple word of mouth. Hype might drive pre-orders and initial sales, but it can also result in mass refunds. A truly great game will sell for years after launch.

Hundred times this.

With all the hype, especially surrounding certain space themed games, the best thing FD can do is to lay low and let the game do the talking.

 

[Darrett]

At this point there's no reason to overhype. You just end up burning out potential customers. The thing is that ED is very much an early access title in many ways; FD knows this, and they're working to add features. Though it's been out for a while, just taking a look at some of the recent discussion regarding NMS shows you just how unknown Elite is... there were a lot of people commenting "What game is this?" when people would post GIFs or videos of Elite. If Elite were heavily marketed at this stage, you'd end up with a lot of dissatisfied gamers who would badmouth it. You can see on Steam what the general game community thinks of the game's style- slow paced, requiring too much time to get to fun parts, lack of deep content and story, which is why it has mixed ratings. Building the game up into something that it can't live up to yet is a bad plan for seeing the end of the development roadmap.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

There has to be a balance, and while I'd agree FD is too silent, it avoids issues such as the NMS ones surrounding the expectations gap on launch. That's not to say NMS isn't good, it's just, I feel, not what many expected it to be for whatever reason. With SC it's hard to tell, there is no game yet. CIG are masters of hype and noise making, fund raising and other marketing things. FD simply are not.

It might be a British thing, it is certainly a different approach. Does it work? Well, FD seems successful. Would more noise help? undoubtedly, but the nature of Elite is somewhat niche so it's important people know what it is before starting in order to avoid disappointment.

Well, NMS is a more blatant bait and switch situation. Our expectations were based on what we were told and shown.

I agree, though. They stay quiet rather than have anything taken out of context as "promises". Also, go prevent themselves from actually being caught in a lie, intentional or not. It just avoids liability.

 

[babelfisch]

There are already quite a lot people who are disappointed with ED. Not because it's bad in the current state, but because they were disappointed with the release version. Every time a gaming magazine posts a news about ED you'll see lots of very critical comments about stuff that already got fixed months ago. Maybe it would help if we could get a free to play weekend to celebrate 2.2 release?

 

[Monk]

There are already quite a lot people who are disappointed with ED. Not because it's bad in the current state, but because they were disappointed with the release version. Every time a gaming magazine posts a news about ED you'll see lots of very critical comments about stuff that already got fixed months ago. Maybe it would help if we could get a free to play weekend to celebrate 2.2 release?

Perhaps...but after two years of this noise, I'd rather just have people around who still like playing the game. We know what is wrong with it, we don't need 50 more posters reminding everyone of things we already know and complain about.

 

[Retrograde]

I think the media coverage must have been disappointing from FD's perspective. So far the best Gamescom press coverage for Elite was Ars Technica, and that's not bad. But nothing from Eurogamer, RPS, PC Gamer, others. It's a pity that those websites seem to have lost interest, and it must be a bit frustrating for FD. I guess they're waiting for the full thargoid invasion. Or a PS4 announcement.

 

[Lobstris]

All I can say is if it's between a crowd whooping and hollering at the slightest little thing on screen, and 'The Hair, Tallest Dad and The SpaceLoach™ Cowboy' recapping the recap of the recap, I can actually watch the latter without cringing too much, even if the impact of what they are presenting is substantially less impressive than the former. I think it's a 'plucky, British, 'support the underdog and inappropriate jokes about the type of feed being made' thing?

 

[Monk]

I think the media coverage must have been disappointing from FD's perspective. So far the best Gamescom press coverage for Elite was Ars Technica, and that's not bad. But nothing from Eurogamer, RPS, PC Gamer, others. It's a pity that those websites seem to have lost interest, and it must be a bit frustrating for FD. I guess they're waiting for the full thargoid invasion. Or a PS4 announcement.

Really though, for the audience that would appreciate this game, Ars probably hits them the best. RPS, to some extent gets there but really, the majority audiences of those sites are not the types that would like Elite, in my opinion.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

There has to be a balance, and while I'd agree FD is too silent, it avoids issues such as the NMS ones surrounding the expectations gap on launch. That's not to say NMS isn't good, it's just, I feel, not what many expected it to be for whatever reason. With SC it's hard to tell, there is no game yet. CIG are masters of hype and noise making, fund raising and other marketing things. FD simply are not.

It might be a British thing, it is certainly a different approach. Does it work? Well, FD seems successful. Would more noise help? undoubtedly, but the nature of Elite is somewhat niche so it's important people know what it is before starting in order to avoid disappointment.

Its not a British thing as Sean over at HG made a monumental      up with NMS.

Butg yeah FD are underselling it and in all honesty thats good after looking to what has happened to NMSgate.

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There are already quite a lot people who are disappointed with ED. Not because it's bad in the current state, but because they were disappointed with the release version. Every time a gaming magazine posts a news about ED you'll see lots of very critical comments about stuff that already got fixed months ago. Maybe it would help if we could get a free to play weekend to celebrate 2.2 release?

To be fair there is also a lot of people that enjoy it too, you only ever here about negative though, such is life on the interweb.

 

[Cosmo]

Likewise the Star Citizen conference at Gamescom had huge wow factor and a massive headline feature – seamless landings on realistic detailed atmospheric planets etc. etc. i’m sure we’ve all seen it. SC could well be competing with ED except for the fact that it doesn’t exist yet. But again there is no reason for anyone apart from us to appreciate that level of detail if they aren’t told. As far as the Average Joe is concerned (hell, as far as the fanboys are concerned) you can now land on, and walk around, atmospheric populated planets in SC, but not ED. However untrue that may be. I look forward to doing so in ED and SC, but it’s a ways off for both…

And this is the best way I can sum up what frustrated me about Gamescom. I love the game - for all its faults, ED is the only thing that exists that allows me to fly a spaceship and land it on a planet. Playing in VR it is less a game and more of a miracle. The reality is at this moment in time that it is streaks ahead of all the other space games but I get the feeling few people know or care because FD are so focussed (some would say very admirably and honestly) on the now.

What I think you have in peoples’ minds is a comparison between what the press hyped NMS up to be, what SC will be in 4-5 years, and what ED is now. That’s what concerns me; is it a big business error on FD’s part not to be making big promises for the future and showing work in progress loud and proud?

SC has better marketing, more frequent development updates (see Around the Verse), and they show more stuff with a Wow-factor to get more attention and fans. At Gamescom, Elite Dangerous had a good presentation, but nothing comparable with a wow-factor to blow the competition away.

SC has first person gameplay, ship boarding, station walking, first person shooter gameplay which appeals to a bigger mass-audience. These are critical features that are currently not in Elite Dangerous so I hope Frontier will add space-legs as soon as possible.

Landing on planets will be in a SC playable build probably sometime next year.

TL;DR Elite Dangerous has:

• Less Wow-factor stuff
• Less development updates
• Less marketing
• Less mass-audience features (space-legs with first person combat)
• Means less fans, media attention and lower sales

 

[Lobstris]

Really though, for the audience that would appreciate this game, Ars probably hits them the best. RPS, to some extent gets there but really, the majority audiences of those sites are not the types that would like Elite, in my opinion.

And I think Frontier have realised that a) there ain't enough of the type 'who'd like Elite' to pay the bills, and b) they've got to do something radical to turn around things like the bad reviews on Steam, driven by the lack of content/premium price/engineer grind labels and missteps. Regarding 'b)' the livestreams and announcements seemed geared towards getting existing season pass owners back into the fold, rather than c) drumming up brand new trade. I'm in 'a)', it feels like Frontier went for 'b)' at GamesCom, and they really want to be after 'c)' financially?.

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To be fair there is also a lot of people that enjoy it too, you only ever here about negative though, such is life on the interweb.

Pssst. OBB. I really enjoy the game. But don't tell anyone. Reputations and all that!

 

[mikey_205]

Thing is now might not be the best time for an announcement of a huge nature like that after many feel burned by NMS. Besides i imagine it might make for a much cooler press story if they let players discover and report on the first encounters with sentient aliens. Gaming publications love that kind of player participation and involvement in story.

 

[Jools]

Its not a British thing as Sean over at HG made a monumental up with NMS.

Butg yeah FD are underselling it and in all honesty thats good after looking to what has happened to NMSgate.

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To be fair there is also a lot of people that enjoy it too, you only ever here about negative though, such is life on the interweb.

Well imo they oversell it... it`s just that they have so little to show

And I know I am not the only one. I was watching one of the streams, and my girlfriend came in and said: <I see you are watching the "It`s very very exciting, all the richness we have, the team has done such a woderfull job" guy? What do they have this year? Some new rocks for the ice cream planets>

true story...

I do admit that other companies are even worse though. That`s why I`d still rather watch overenthusiastic David than other gamescom presentations

Her reaction when I launched SC presentation was even better

"Oh god not this guy, can we go out and have some sushi instead?"

 

[Cynaqq]

SC has better marketing, and they show more stuff with a Wow-factor to get more attention and fans. At Gamescom, Elite Dangerous had a good presentation, but nothing comparable with a wow-factor to blow the competition away.

SC has first person gameplay, ship boarding, station walking, first person shooter gameplay which appeals to a bigger mass-audience. These are critical features that are currently not in Elite Dangerous so I hope Frontier will add space-legs as soon as possible.

Landing on planets will be in a SC playable build sometime next year probably.

Actual sized celestial objects and true to life distances,

Trading,

Bounty hunting,

Mining,

A working BGS,

Auto generated missions,

An incredible flight and dogfighting system,

Hotas support,

Title of the 'Gold standard in VR' (like, the best of the whole industry),

Hundreds of billions of systems to visit,

An actual story line with incredicble mysteries are critical features not in Star Citizen so I think I can do without first person walking for some time yet.

ED will have all of that eventually. There are a lot of things on this list that SC will never have on the scale ED has them already.