2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Wyaston Hypatia]

May have been suggested but:

Maybe it should be seen that ship transfer isnt actually a ship transfer as per say, but a "(Re-)Construct" of your ship build.

This would then technically just require your current station needing the (e.g. blueprint)/plans of your Hard points, core modules, optional modules, utility modules + x amount of time (which could be a time delay for the information being got from existing station to current station.

The time that would become odd in the terms of realistic is when you are at a station that does not have the module level you had in your ship, or the engineer modified modules. However, this is where a sort of cap can be introduced. If the modules is standard but not at the station you are in you have to wait more time and pay more cost for the item itself to be shipped, or got from another nearby station.

I can see this also possibly branching out in to being made to generate in to player missions. So a mission could be to transfer ship plans/modules from one station to another direct from a call of a player requesting a ship transfer. The player then transporting the goods could get a nice payment, or if something goes wrong have a big fine to pay. (obviously the goods/plans would still have to be delivered to the station, but maybe on mission fail it then changes in to a mission for salvage) all whilst the player transferring is awaiting the timer.

Yes, several times (I've done so).
It is a (I think) poor way to explain the instantaneous transfer of ships but probably the best we have so far. There's lots of holes in the thing and takes some swallowing. It also doesn't address the other problem which is the affect on the Meta. Or the perception of the direction FD is taking ED.

 

[sgurr]

Honestly I was really looking forward to 2.2. I am, still, really. It's just a reminder that the developers are reducing the curve, shrinking distances and increasing expedience, believing this will lead to better days.

Maybe? But how much has to be lost, for that gain? ...

Rep +1

 

[Weps]

Given it is unlikely to be changed before Beta. I suppose it is beholden to all Beta participants to use the time wisely, push the boundaries as hard as possible and give some hard data for the Devs to digest (or ignore).

I respectfully disagree, I consider that the developers are much less likely to program anything during Beta, when they are busy balancing out everything in the patch.

If there is any change to be made to the concept, it has to be now. There's a very small chance they'll do that, but that chance only becomes smaller the more we approach October. Either that or we can only hope at a change much later in the future (if ever), when Pandora's box has already been opened and everyone is accustomed to flying the universe via AspX+FlooNetwork.

 

[lysan]

Yes, several times (I've done so).
It is a (I think) poor way to explain the instantaneous transfer of ships but probably the best we have so far. There's lots of holes in the thing and takes some swallowing. It also doesn't address the other problem which is the affect on the Meta. Or the perception of the direction FD is taking ED.

Well, while FD are scratching the Uranus rings while this mega thread is piling up, I can guarantee you that the BETA is almost set in stone, only the balancing is left more or less now.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Heh. I'd personally rather have no ship transfer at all, than instantaneous transfer.

Having thought quite a bit about this since it was announced, I wholeheartedly agree.

Me three.

 

[6xes]

Ship transfer could be put in the realms of realism.. through this thought...

imagine for a moment, you have your ships outfitting storage Document/Receipt stating every corresponding module that is fitted, and then you hand that to the Stations outfitters....

Go to another System... Hand over your Outfitting Document/Receipt and the ship is prepared at the station ready to roll

So long as there is a equivalent ship in Stock it can be made available.... however the Modules not being in stock would become the Problem... as Not every module is Available at every station..

If Fdev were to remain in the Realms of Realism... perhaps they couldve had points of Transfer within a Certain quadrants of the Galaxy.... reducing travel as opposed to breaking the realism..

If we were to go a step further and Add... Faction Ownership of Stations and your Affliation and ones reputation with them, this would Add more sense to the extra services you get

Tieing in Factions with rewards... and only when the Faction you are aligned with .. you can get ship transfer.. and module transfer services...

I think this might keep some sort of balance of Realism and intertwine the Factions with Services.

Ship Transfer should be a Reward for Faction Service based on their ownership of the station + Credits... or at least a Major Credit discount!!
This in part would encourage people to take part in the BGS.. and understand its influence etc..

 

[rootsrat]

.
Maybe. But as some others already mentioned, if we need more realism, then please also add 3 minutes of time delay (no launch possible) for each ton of cargo being loaded or unloaded from your ship, and several hours of waiting time (again no launch possible) when your ship is being repaired. (Not based on percentage, but simply several hours of waiting time. No matter if your FSD is at 5% or 95%, it still takes several hours to dismount and disassemble it to replace the damaged parts. )
.
When that is being done, we can start talking about consistency...

It's not about going from one extreme to another though. The world isn't black and white, there are 50 shades of grey in between. It's all about the balance and compromises between realism andf fun. Refuelling and repair on a timer would be extremely realistic, but at the same time not fun. You wouldn't be able to do anything, whilst these oprations are ongoing. Furthermore, they are day-to-day mundane operations you perform every 10-30 minutes, depending on what you're up to in game. It's understandable that they are instantenous.

Transporting a ship 300 LY is not a trivial task, but much more serious business. And while I can acccept that refuelling doesn't take any time in game, a magical cloud of smoke that follws the instant <PUFF> and contains your ship, is not something belonging in a simulator that Elite essentially is.

Yes, I know that it's not teleporation but rather the 3302's equivalent of todays "3D printing". But I don't buy that, it sounds like a cheap, lazy explanation from FDEV. I've been here a while and those of you whom I engaged in discussions with before would know that I'm amongst the first to defend the game and the design choices, but that just doesn't fit in. If we can print the ships and modules (Engineered too!) across 300LY, then:

1) Why all the shipyards don't have all the avilable ships at all times, likewise with the Outfitters and the modules?
2) Why do corporations bother with transportation missions, if they could just print the cargo at the destination port (I can agree that things like biowaste are organic matter and cannot be printed, but surely if they can print a space ship, they can also print simple machinery and technology goods!).
3) Why bother developing starships, instead of investing in the development of printing technology to be able to reproduce more and more things rather than transport them?

Like I said - I don't buy it and to me it really endangers the integrity and believeability of the Elite universe, i.e. kills the feeling of being immersed (yeah I said it) in the game. Now, the timed transfer would be more credible, while not hindering the player too much. At the moment we have nothing - we are forced to physically waste our time and fly to get our ship. Even if the transfer would take the actual, realistic amount of time for each ship, it would cut the waiting period 50%. If they reduced the waiting time even further, it wouldn't be that much of a pain, while at the same time being more realistic and balanced for simluation vs fun aspect. And you can actually PLAY the game while waiting for your ship, as oppposed to if refuelling and repairing were on a timer and you were forced to wait.

That's why I think the ship transfer should be on the timer rather than instant.

 

[Frambitam]

I respectfully disagree, I consider that the developers are much less likely to program anything during Beta, when they are busy balancing out everything in the patch.

If there is any change to be made to the concept, it has to be now. There's a very small chance they'll do that, but that chance only becomes smaller the more we approach October. Either that or we can only hope at a change much later in the future (if ever), when Pandora's box has already been opened and everyone is accustomed to flying the universe via AspX+FlooNetwork.

Implement the infrastructure now and balance the time during beta, being able to set the time to zero of course.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

... but you bringing up the DDF, just reminds me of the rich game sold by David Braben that i backed...... <bites knuckles and backs away>

No touching the DDF, it's disused, nature reclaimed it and now there's lots of spiders spinning webs and catching flies there now. It's like a nature reserve. After the mess of PowerGrind and RNGineers you lot are barred from the DDF until you fix those messes first, no disturbing the spiders!

 

[Bomba Luigi]

The sad thing about all of this is that FD at no point put any thought into "how could it be explained" at all. Sure, lots of stuff that doens't make sense in the game, 2.1 brought a lot too but I always got the impression that while they not always can go for realism they at least try. Like David Braben talking about that Mechanik in Vietnam doing stuff with choppers when talking about engineers. While it didn't end up being anything realistic, I still always had the impression they try making sense where possible and try making the galaxy feel believable. Here its just "Teleoport, cause its fun teleporting stuff".

 

[Weps]

Implement the infrastructure now and balance the time during beta, being able to set the time to zero of course.

That would most certainly be admirable on FDEV's part. And split the Beta into different stages, testing timer settings ranging from 0 to fully realistic.

We can only hope.

 

[Robert Maynard]

After the mess of PowerGrind and RNGineers you lot are barred from the DDF until you fix those messes first, no disturbing the spiders!

I'll have you know that the DDF is alive and well (and open for business)....

 

[JosiahD]

Ermm.. why?
Maybe you missed some facts again, but ship transfer happens between stations with a shipyard. Of the 5 billion star system in the game, there's how many who meet that criteria? Less than 1%?
Your comparison is "why go snorkling in the ocean when I can just deep dive in my bathtub ... silly!" (which migh be a valid argument for the avid a pneu bathtub diver, I'm not one of them, so I wouldn't know).

Irrelevant - his point was that having gone to all the trouble of creating a 1:1 scale representation they then go and belittle that effort, and the effort and risk in travelling anywhere in that 1:1 representation, by resorting to insta-transport. The fact that stations only occur within a small zone in that 1:1 scale representation doesn't actually diminish his point - it's still a 1:1 scale representation even within the bubble - and then there's the distance between the bubble and Jacques of course. But then as Newsletter 138 makes no reference to the transport being instant, I suspect Frontier are reconsidering the insta-transport anyway....

 

[Moonax IRL]

I expect to hear something on the issue well before beta from FD, otherwise it's a done deal and the communities opinion isn't worth a toss. To implement such a fundamentally flawed mechanic into the game w/o a cursory discussion with the player base will prove that all their so called appreciation of the community is just window dressing and meaningless platitudes.

 

[Magic Man]

Pretty simple. The crowd that funded the game is no longer the same demografic they wish to attract. with that level of "conviction" I don't see this game lasting out the decade.

Sad but true I think.
What's the refund policy on lifetime passes...

 

[Mephane]

Yes, several times (I've done so).
It is a (I think) poor way to explain the instantaneous transfer of ships but probably the best we have so far. There's lots of holes in the thing and takes some swallowing. It also doesn't address the other problem which is the affect on the Meta. Or the perception of the direction FD is taking ED.

No, it's worse than no explanation at all. Rather just ignore the fact that it is instantaneous (and have a headcanon that it actually took time) than the game expressly claiming how the ship gets 3D printed.

 

[Vasious]

At the end of the day I can suspend disbelief and hand wave In headlore about

Instant cargo loading and unloading
Instant repairs
instant refitting
Cargo delivery missions that pay %1000s% above market rate
FTL communications coexisting with Data courier missions
Super FTL escape Pods

So I can do the same with Module and Ship Transfer being instant, since both need wither outfitting or a shipyard, there is a existing logistics chain in place.
The shipping could have taken place during that down time I am away from the computer, ordered ahead of time, etc ect

Prepping the Sidewinder for shipping

Spoiler

 

[MyHammer]

I expect to hear something on the issue well before beta from FD, otherwise it's a done deal and the communities opinion isn't worth a toss. To implement such a fundamentally flawed mechanic into the game w/o a cursory discussion with the player base will prove that all their so called appreciation of the community is just window dressing and meaningless platitudes.

I still believe that FD is a company which listen to their customers. The engineers have been tweaked, maybe not to everybodys liking, but its certainly better then before IMHO. So, now there is even more debate going on, so I am pretty sure FD will come up with some sort of solution. The whole Transfer mechanic should be taken out until they find a working solution which adresses the problems raised here.

 

[Sans Daring]

But then as Newsletter 138 makes no reference to the transport being instant, I suspect Frontier are reconsidering the insta-transport anyway....

I felt it was the opposite. They give a reason FOR instant-transport, suggesting if you wanted to participate in a pilot event, but weren't in your Eagle, you could zip it over fast and swap ships. Seems to me, and I could be wrong (this is an assumption afterall), that it is almost a passive defense to the reaction; "this is why we at FD are PRO the instant-teleport: has anyone considered this reason?" sort of vibe.

My answer would be, "yes that's great, if you want Elite to feel like a selection of multi-games to participate in. Hell, on that logic, why not just have them marked on the galactic map and we just click the system and just get insta-transported there? No need to worry about travelling, distance, planning etc - or accepting that you might be in the wrong place at the wrong time, as in life... active-entitlement mode: no risk, big reward!"

... if I was to be horribly tabloid, that is.

 

[Angus]

It's not great, but it's not insta-teleport. It could be assumed the ship was moved. There's certainly a timespan to do it. Though yes, it's a game mechanic concession - unless ports have telepathy or one imagines a request is sent out en route via your commander avatar, unrequited by his Master player. It doesn't really break anything per se, but it ain't great either.

Connery accent (for no particular reason)

I ashumed my ship was tracking my position at a shafe dishtance.