Should ship transfers have a time delay or not?
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Under Elite lore as I know it, larger ships still have to use the old hyperdrive system that takes ~days/ly travelled. Hence why the Cap Ships appear out of a cloud spitting lightning, rather than appearing in a flash - it's a different technology.
Having said that your idea is a fair one. How about: Story on GalCom. Say a breakthrough has been made in the size efficiency of FSDs and they can now be installed on big ships. Have a CG to collect materials start constructing huge bulk transporter ships. Let's call them 'Lynx Bulk Carriers' (off the top of my head), and use those to transport ships around with little delay. Someone can make up a bulk transporter model to spawn outside stations (like the ones in FFE).
Presto. (And before anyone criticises the fiction - go check the early DDF of ship transfer, what does it say... 'big transporters'.
)Actually - I'll just quote the DDF (emphasis mine.
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Should have a time delay, because transport of ships should be a tool for manage fleet, not an exploit to faster travel and obey lower jump range ships cons.
If there will not be a delay, then all ships in the galaxy will be ASP, Conda, DBE, because everyone will be using that and will use transfer his vette/whatever on destination.
Money will not be barrier for a people who will want bring FDL/vette, because these persons have 3-5 blns of cr.
And the last thing - this is just not logical and breaking a need for all interstellar travels, because why people would transport goods or themselves, using risky starships when they can just teleport?
If FDev want to reduce timesink - cool - please reduce cooldowns, countdowns, loading-hyperspace-screen time, and buff jump range of all ships. This is a proper way, not magical summoning starships.
If there will not be a delay, then all ships in the galaxy will be ASP, Conda, DBE, because everyone will be using that and will use transfer his vette/whatever on destination.
Money will not be barrier for a people who will want bring FDL/vette, because these persons have 3-5 blns of cr.
And the last thing - this is just not logical and breaking a need for all interstellar travels, because why people would transport goods or themselves, using risky starships when they can just teleport?
If FDev want to reduce timesink - cool - please reduce cooldowns, countdowns, loading-hyperspace-screen time, and buff jump range of all ships. This is a proper way, not magical summoning starships.
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What is your lore explanation for the fact that every ship except asps / haulers / anacondas suddenly vanished from the game except in the CZ / roid rings ?
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Tbh. I am fine with any non-instant solution that actually allows them to later do exactly what you described: refine the whole ship transfer process by for example adding a bulk carrier who delivers the ships. This would hardly be possible if they really added instant ship transport that's finished as soon as you press the button. Any short time delay would be fine by me though (for example using the explanation you gave with special FSDs for ship transporting carriers)
Roleplaying eh? You actually see NPC ships flying in and out of the stations all the time. However, you *never* see capital ships storing corvettes in their hold, and you *never* see them flying up to stations.
If people want to buy 55LY and then sit and wait at a station, that is a personal choice to be lazy, because they were trying to exploit the transfer mechanic. It's not a requirement of gameplay. However, Frontier won't keep it that way regardless whether it's instant or has a time delay. As soon as they allowed ship transfers of any kind they opened the door to the 55LY Anaconda shuttle meta. They will eventually concede that the 55LY Anaconda meta will make all jump ranges irrelevant, and they will likely make all jump ranges the same via some new tech advancement lore.
So the core argument here is really, should there be a time delay. Not, why do I have to wait? Not unless you frequently switch from trade to combat to exploration. In which case, why not fly a multirole ship? But I am guessing you just want this exploit option to get your FDL/Corvette to a combat CG faster anyway.
So because NPCs do it, our ship is doing it to? I see all those NPCs flying in, yet didn't see them in supercruise. I see ships in supercruise drop out at the station just ahead of me but don't see them there. There isn't a consistent continuum of events in Elite, we all accept it, to argue that said nonexistent continuum would be disrupted by this feature is nonsense. Jump range isn't a balancing factor, as admit by yourself and adds very little to the gameplay for anything outside of buckyballing, the balancing factor will be credits. Credits = time, I'd rather it not have to spend it twice, once doing something I like to get the credits, a second time doing nothing waiting for what I paid for.
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Combat CG travel really isn't an issue, spending an extra 20 minutes getting there and being there for the course of the week, not a problem. Moving 3 or 4 ships 250 Ly to Elvira however is and once I'm there I can order my ships and wait because I'm there to get them modded. Or go look for missions and stuff, maybe finding something to occupy my time, probably not, in truth there would be no activity I was doing that was anything more than a mask to tick that timer down. More likely to jump there in my 55Ly anaconda and log out or play on my phone or watch something on Netflix while my timer ticks down (getting supercruise flashes now).
I would invite you to actually read it. It's one of my shorter arguments. There isn't really any immersive sense in it being instantaneous, but there is a ton of gameplay sense.
I addressed it with the following, though I'm not sure in which thread: what exploit? Arriving faster somewhere? Marginally increasing your credits per hour on a 1 way trade route? Sothis? The problem with Sothis is not the time it takes to get there with an empty hold, it is apparently a phobia of biowaste of such galactic proportions the system is attempting to ruin themselves financially to get rid of it.
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Aside from that, a cooldown is as gamey as instantaneous travel and will only serve to frustrate in those cases where you want to do a couple of activities in a couple of ships quickly (I have no idea what length of CD you're referring to so I'm not sure, but I suppose I'm pretty schizophrenic with my ships, 3-4 ships in a couple hours of play is really common). I can imagine it now "I'm sorry Mr Bacalao, but you've used your daily delivery, we don't want anymore of your credits until tomorrow." If you want to put a cap on it, put a cap on it with the currency that drives the galaxy: credits. Worried about Sothis 'exploiters'? Make it suitably expensive that any increase in profits are eaten up by the expense of transferring out your Cutter/T9. Exponential curves for cost vs distance are not difficult to calculate. I mean I really couldn't care less about credit earning exploits, that bird flew the coop a long, long time ago.
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Instantaneous travel admittedly does not make sense, it is not sensible or immersive, but when immersion/sense are irreconcilable with gameplay in a game gameplay wins, particularly when the individual can still choose to forgo the immersion/sense breaking aspect for their own gameplay.
Yes, and I believe I replied, this isn't instant gratification. Two different things going on here. Instant gratification is wanting something for nothing this instant, this is a matter of utility. Waiting with your thumbs twiddling for something is not a challenge, travel is not a challenge in Elite. It is a hurdle in the way of most of Elite's gameplay with a few notable exceptions (exploration, buckyball, some early game trading).
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I've done the same thing as you, with the very same ship actually (love that plucky little T6) and it can occasionally be fun to jump into something different because you haven't anything else at your immediate disposal, but more often it's a pain to find the ship you need locally and fly around to likely areas that will outfit it decently, spending probably 30 minutes (or more if you're unlucky) to outfit it well enough to do the job.
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If you like doing that, keep doing that, I don't want to take that away from you. But I don't, it doesn't add anything to the game for me, it in fact discourages me from taking part in those activities at my disposal I would otherwise (with available tools) take part in.
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Lave Radio now, Sandy Sammarco re-ship transfers justifying instant transfer, it the "simple solution". He`s got that much right, definitely catering for the "I want it now" crowd.
The run to Jacques won't be too expensive, clueless decision.
The run to Jacques won't be too expensive, clueless decision.
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One mans instant gratification is another one's utility....
We need more than one game.
I voted yes..
Frankly, if they put a time delay, I'll handle it the same way I do with all the other boring time delay features already in ED: Alt-Tab to youtube and not play ED for however long it takes.
Add many more time delay features and eventually I won't need to play the game at all.
Add many more time delay features and eventually I won't need to play the game at all.
FD now making excuses for poor/lazy gameplay decisions.
This I could accept. It makes some sense, and can actually do some thing else instead of waiting for a ship to turn up. Like send a mning ship to Jaques and then take my time exploring on the way. Far better than getting there and then having to wait, which is what other layers seem to want.
Voted yes for the delay.
After thinking about the reasoning behind introducing instant transfer for a couple three days, what is really starting to bother me is the almost total disregard to some of the cmdrs who have gone to great effort and expense to help with the immersion process.
As many people have pointed out in the other thread(s), Elite Dangerous from the very beginning has always been geared towards making the experience as real as possible. I feel this is the main motivation behind these cmdrs that lead them to spend their time, sweat, and expense building hardware mods. From the not so simple chair mods, to elaborate custom built cockpits with giant screen projectors and everything in between. If I were them, I would feel somewhat betrayed. Heck, I do feel somewhat betrayed myself. Had I known this is the direction we might be headed, I probably would have waited a while longer before making the recent purchase of the Thrustmaster Warthog and MFG custom pedals. I have been toying with the idea of building a separate gaming computer, just for Elite. I am glad I did not start actually doing it, yet.
I also keep thinking about what David Braben said in his video being in almost complete contrast with Sandro's comment: "gaming trumps immersion".
Hopefully the FD team will come up with a solution that will accommodate everyone. It almost looks like it is time for Elite Dangerous to be "split" into two seperate games.
After thinking about the reasoning behind introducing instant transfer for a couple three days, what is really starting to bother me is the almost total disregard to some of the cmdrs who have gone to great effort and expense to help with the immersion process.
As many people have pointed out in the other thread(s), Elite Dangerous from the very beginning has always been geared towards making the experience as real as possible. I feel this is the main motivation behind these cmdrs that lead them to spend their time, sweat, and expense building hardware mods. From the not so simple chair mods, to elaborate custom built cockpits with giant screen projectors and everything in between. If I were them, I would feel somewhat betrayed. Heck, I do feel somewhat betrayed myself. Had I known this is the direction we might be headed, I probably would have waited a while longer before making the recent purchase of the Thrustmaster Warthog and MFG custom pedals. I have been toying with the idea of building a separate gaming computer, just for Elite. I am glad I did not start actually doing it, yet.
I also keep thinking about what David Braben said in his video being in almost complete contrast with Sandro's comment: "gaming trumps immersion".
Hopefully the FD team will come up with a solution that will accommodate everyone. It almost looks like it is time for Elite Dangerous to be "split" into two seperate games.
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You make me sad Limoncello Lizard, because what you say is true. I want to engage with the world of Elite because it is fantastic, if a little rough in some spots. I just have to spend so much time getting to the engaging bits.
Okay then, it looks like they made decision and will stick to it. As I said, I am okay with that. I'd be okay with reasonably delayed transfer too. From my point of view, it is neat little QoL improvement, side feature which I am probably not going to use very often anyway: be it instant or delayed.
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I think you've got to have had some very thick blinders on to not see it as it is from the very beginning. The crowning feature of Elite, it's 400 billion star systems, all of them pre-discovered and as easy to visit as any other is a sacrifice of gameplay to realism. The second crowning feature IMO, the flight model is rife with sacrifices to gameplay over realism. The BGS itself is a sacrifice to gameplay over realism. Powerplay powers that have no internal direction, no compass, are a sacrifice to gameplay over realism. I cannot think of one thing in Elite that hasn't bled on the altar of gameplay over realism, it is the reality of it being a game.
I never grind, I have very little time to play and now I won't be spending my precious free time playing Lego Elite.
The below video sums it up best for me.
There's still a chance they'll hear the player community and act accordingly if there's a strong enough showing and a sound rationale for a general preference. At least I would hope so.
Yes, player preferences regarding the specific implementations and minutia of the ship transfer feature may vary significantly, but hopefully this poll will help provide a clearer response from the community for Frontier to consider and address.
[video=youtube;r8bgaLseoVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8bgaLseoVs[/video]
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