Try 0.000001% of the galaxy. 1% of the galaxy would be 4 billion systems. If there's stuff out there that PG generated and random, how on earth does DB expect us to find ANYTHING? This is such a ludicrous comment to make in your own game where you made finding a needle in a haystack to be finding a needle in a haystack whislt the barn's bruning down around you. LOL
The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
- Start date
Try 0.000001% of the galaxy. 1% of the galaxy would be 4 billion systems. If there's stuff out there that PG generated and random, how on earth does DB expect us to find ANYTHING? This is such a ludicrous comment to make in your own game where you made finding a needle in a haystack to be finding a needle in a haystack whislt the barn's bruning down around you. LOL
It all comes back to immersion and worrying that the new people have an easier time getting credits than when the game launched 19 months ago. Everyone somehow has become grizzled veterans of the old world in 19 months. Its great.
There is this terrible assumption on all of these peoples part that there will never ever be anything more to spend credits on. There will be no mechanics in place that required you use said credits.
The largest population of players whining about this are either billionairs/trillionairs and already have the largest ships. They also think that this game with over 400 billion stars in this galaxy alone is somehow small. They also think that bringing a mining vessel or a fighter after flying 9 to 48 hours real time to a location is somehow cheating or lazy. Its people unwilling to change that is the true issue. Let this happen and then see the impact.
The Beta hasnt even ran yet. Nobody knows the real impact.
Besides if you not exploring every single planet and asteroid belt along the 9 hour trek to Jacques then why do you care? All it shows is that you can point your ship at a big circle fly around suns and press one button for 9 hours straight.
There is this terrible assumption on all of these peoples part that there will never ever be anything more to spend credits on. There will be no mechanics in place that required you use said credits.
The largest population of players whining about this are either billionairs/trillionairs and already have the largest ships. They also think that this game with over 400 billion stars in this galaxy alone is somehow small. They also think that bringing a mining vessel or a fighter after flying 9 to 48 hours real time to a location is somehow cheating or lazy. Its people unwilling to change that is the true issue. Let this happen and then see the impact.
The Beta hasnt even ran yet. Nobody knows the real impact.
Besides if you not exploring every single planet and asteroid belt along the 9 hour trek to Jacques then why do you care? All it shows is that you can point your ship at a big circle fly around suns and press one button for 9 hours straight.
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David is very involved in the development of the game - he sits behind me
As for me having no soul - that's probably true.
Michael
Heh. Got a laugh from that.
...
I'm not a fan of the instant transfers for several reasons which have already been covered here and elsewhere on the forums. If implemented as they seem to be planned, I'll just write them off as an aspect of the game I don't care for and avoid them and those who might use them.
Cheers.
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I think for a lot of people it would effectively be no different. For instance people who play PowerPlay will generally operate within a 150ly bubble when running fort (so any range limitation is likely not to apply) and most heavy haulers don't really have any concerns about cash. So in PowerPlay rather than stocking up their T9 and doing (example here as a Winters pilot):
• Rhea > Shenggan (~10 jumps full cargo), Shenggan > Rhea (~8 jumps empty)
they do:
• Rhea > Shenggan (~10 jumps) -- swap to Asp > Rhea (3 jumps).
You've cut over 50% of the return trip out, and nearly 30% of the overall trip. That's coupled with the fact that the return trip is also less problematic in terms of interdictions/risk and being able to get into the station and land quicker.
As I've said, heavy PP haulers won't care about the cost - so this seems barely any different from having a "My Ships" tab in the Shipyard with them all instantly accessible "in the ship cloud".
This is just one aspect of the game (and one aspect of PP - there's obviously prep/expansions etc. as well) but it immediately changes the balance because fortifying distant systems suddenly becomes 30% quicker in one fell swoop - and this skews PP even further towards those heavy lifters for who cost isn't an issue. New PP players have even less opportunity to become involved or affect the outcome because the rich Rank 5s can be 30% more productive. Instantly.
I'll reserve my own judgement until beta regarding ship transfer. My guess is that FD has something planned, whether it be an event, feature, or scenario, that almost requires instant ship transfer. The idea behind it is certainly dividing the community, which I myself am against insta-ship transfer, but there's a lot of handwavium in this game - from module outfitting to Engineer upgrades, all of which should take time but does not. So I see both sides of the argument.
I have faith in FDev making the right decision - even if it's against popular demand, I believe they will make the right decision here.
I have faith in FDev making the right decision - even if it's against popular demand, I believe they will make the right decision here.
The ability to instantly change ships anywhere will probably mean that anyone scouting for targets will not require to be doing so in the ship that they intend to interdict them with - as there is no requirement to travel any distance to fetch the weapon of choice for interacting with their chosen target - just dock, switch and go.
Seeing a Type-6 in SC ahead heading for a station would not normally concern most players - the knowledge that that Type-6 pilot can immediately switch to their interdictor and make a bee-line for the following player changes things a bit - as there was probably only a small chance of the attacking player having that asset in that station previously - now any asset will be immediately available in any station (with suitably sized pads).
Waiting outside an outpost for the Type-6 to come out again might get a bit twitchy - as it may not be a Type-6 that emerges from the hangar but something altogether more combat capable....
You've never spent much time actually hunting other players, have you?
As someone who has spent a lot of time hunting other players, I feel compelled to tell you about this thing called instancing and explain how poorly it actually works in this game.
Seeing a trader ship in SC would be great if I had my interdiction ship ready and was in it already. Knowing I have to go back to the station to get it, knowing that in doing so I will be switching instances potentially two times, I wouldn't make an effort to be very fast because there is a highly likelihood that I'm going to lose that ship in the switches. Even if I follow his wake in from SC, there is a very good chance I could lose him to a highwake once he's exited the station (Providing this player is aware of his/her surroundings) or on the jump back into SC, which has happened more often than not.
So while your line of thought has merit, it's not based in a very good reality. The likely thing that would happens, in that case, is you would have people searching for exact targets and you would then move ships into an area once that exact target has been located in order to saturate as many instances as possible with your attacking force. Then you would manipulate the already existing Wing mechanics to dog pile that instance. Lone wolfing it or even groups moving out to find player saturated areas is going to be no different than it is right now.
Want players to kill? Hunt the CGs and known bounty hunting areas near newbie space or established large-player faction system clusters. The thing is, that's exactly how it is right now. Instant transfers won't add or detract from that.
Nope not true, I have very little money compared to a lot of other players, as I am a very casual player, but I certainly don't want instant magic travel.
Regarding ship fabrication and licences: Would it be possible to have a bit more of this in Lore? (a galnet post or similar)
If different stations sell different licences to build to order certain ships then shouldn't this be reflected in the adverts on the entrance. This would be like modern-day garages have adverts outside stating the brand of components or vehicle they're authorised to sell.
If different stations sell different licences to build to order certain ships then shouldn't this be reflected in the adverts on the entrance. This would be like modern-day garages have adverts outside stating the brand of components or vehicle they're authorised to sell.
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
To be honest, I think this quote "it's the direction we want to go" has been taken up the wrong way. I was very alarmed by this as well. However, when I listened to the entire Lave Radio podcast in context, and especially now that we know that Sandro was actually in favour of a timed delay in the internal debates, I think this comment which was made as a throw away part of a long sentence, was actually just because he was, at that point, rambling a bit and couldn't quite think of the next point. Communication was generally good, but when you put into context that he had to be rather political in the sense that the team (FD) made a decision that he didn't agree with at the time, but in the end you have to back the team decision once made. He was scrambling a bit to justify his position without in any way appearing to imply that the team was split on the issue or that he didn't agree.
The bigger giveaway was the comment later on "I'm really pleased that management have given us the change to make these changes" (subtext even if the way they are being done is not ideal). Reminds me a bit of when ministers come out to say they are in "full support" of the Prime Minister when everyone knows that they disagree on that particular policy. I kind of suspect the decision point was - if you want to do this in 2.2 you have to make it instant as that's the only development budget you are going to get at this time, so it's that or nothing for the moment. They then took the view that the majority of player base would rather have this function with the compromise of instantaneousness (not a word) than not have it at all.
For this reason, I think we are reading too much into that comment and it did not mean that they have made a decision to take the game more towards Candy Crush or something as some of you are fearing.
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If you don't like it don't use it.
How many people here don't like pp or cqc or engineers and don't use them?
How many people here don't like pp or cqc or engineers and don't use them?
INdeed. Put the ships in the same bag of holding as your materials, and pull one out when you want it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that entire situation you've described above require cargo to be transferred with the ship?
Something MB already said wouldn't happen? I don't participate in PP but I know the basics. Could you perhaps explain this a bit more if I'm getting the wrong idea?
Humans will always find a way to "exploit" a system in ways that weren't intended. Our brains are evolved for problem solving. In the example of a trading CG:
1. I fly my engineered long-range Asp 500 LY to a station near the CG with the goods that are needed.
2. I have my T-9 instantly summoned to me.
3. I load up with cargo and do the back-and forth thing for the trade CG.
4. On my last landing at the CG station, I buy a Sidewinder, launch and then boost into the station wall.
5. On the insurance screen, I choose the free Sidewinder to transport me back to LHS 3447, fly to a station with a shipyard, bring back my Asp and I'm ready to travel again.
That's just one example - I'm sure there are other ways this could be (ab)used.
So I've just caught up with the thread. Thanks for everyone's input, as I've said before we do keep it in mind. There will be further discussions on the feature, although I do still feel that adding a time delay weakens the feature more than it solves any problems. One issue does resonate, and that's how far the jump can be, so we'll look into that. We still reserve the right to disagree with you
A time delay makes it more realistic and reduces exploitation.
- Why does it have to be instant? Why can't you add a 10 - 30 minute delay and have a capital freighter deliver it to a station?
- Why do you need to please people without patience? Good things come to those who wait.
- Why would it be necessary for players to bring cargo to stations if it can be teleported or printed instantly?
- Why would players with e.g. a hauler, Lakon Type 7 need escorts if they can fly a cheap sidewinder and then teleport their expensive ships instantly at the destination?
- Doesn't instant delivery negatively affect multiplayer and the need for teamwork?
- Have you thought about the massive technical implications when a whole fleet can be teleported or 3D Printed instantly?
- Doesn't instant delivery seem extremely far fetched and unbelievable?
- Wouldn't this instant delivery technology put billions of people out of work in the galaxy? Why hire space-truckers anymore?
- Doesn't it cheapen the game and value of space travel when there's no waiting time?
- How can a 3D Printer recreate a ship exactly the same in 1 second?
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Fair point, misunderstood.
Gimme the money then!
It doesn't require transferring cargo because fortification in PP is one way - in terms of Winters pilots it's from Rhea outwards, so if I fly my T9 to Shenggan, I can drop off all my fort packages, transfer over a stripped down Asp and fly that back to Rhea, then recall my T9, stock it up with fort packages at Rhea and fly back out to Shenggan. At no point do I need to transfer a ship that has any cargo in it but I'm significantly reducing the time/risk involved in fortification (which as I've mentioned also makes it easier for the established players whereas any cost limitations are likely to affect people new to the game/PP.
Let's say I'm in my T9 and enter a system with a CZ and my Vulture is 30 minutes away.
Now if I want some pewpew it would take an hour traveling to get my Vulture to the CZ.
With shiptransfer taking a realistic time I could send for my Vulture, spend the 30 minutes it would take to do some more trading (which I was doing anyway since I'm in my T9), get the message my Vulture has arrived and start some pewpew.
So instead of having to spend traveling for 60 minutes before starting combat I spend 30 minutes trading before starting combat, no twiddling of thumbs neccesary.
With instant transfer I could have started combat right away but, for me, the realism (as far as you can speak of realism in a game but that's a whole other subject) of realtime transfer beats the unrealistic instant transfer.
That's nonsense, I play in Open because I find the risk fun but generally I'm exploring or running fort as part of PP. I rarely PvP (I tend to run) and I think this is a terrible idea for perfectly sensible gameplay reasons that I've explained (such as affecting the balance of PP or CGs).