Super maneuverable large ships...

[DragoonKnight]

Please tell me how me saying the "clipper is fast" = being slow?

Just explain this to me and I will be very grateful

And and... I am not upset my Cobra got destroyed, I have clearly stated that I don't care. I got liek 300 million in the bank... But hey go make stuff up if you want, I don't mind, just makes you look a fool.

If you didn't care you wouldn't have made a thread complaining about being destroyed by a ship that is superior to your ship in every way that matters. Go buy yourself a clipper and see how much better it is than your entry level cobra.

 

[Siranui]

Please tell me how me saying the "clipper is fast" = being slow?

Just explain this to me and I will be very grateful

And and... I am not upset my Cobra got destroyed, I have clearly stated that I don't care. I got liek 300 million in the bank... But hey go make stuff up if you want, I don't mind, just makes you look a fool.

You have been repeatedly indignant about being out-turned by a 'large mass' ship which you thought would be slow to turn. You didn't even check how capable its pilot was supposed to be. That was your original post and you expressed the view that it should not have been fast on the turn several times. The Clipper is not that ship.

Anyway, I'm out. Any attempt to try to give you advice or ask questions in order to help has been it thrown back rudely. I can understand you being uptight about the initial salvo of comments received, but now it is unnecessary.

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Very large ships should behave more like battleships and have different kind of combat tactics.

That's as maybe, but the OP is talking about a Clipper.

 

[Wasp0]

You have been repeatedly indignant about being out-turned by a 'large mass' ship which you thought would be slow to turn. You didn't even check how capable its pilot was supposed to be. That was your original post and you expressed the view that it should not have been fast on the turn several times. The Clipper is not that ship.

Anyway, I'm out. Any attempt to try to give you advice or ask questions in order to help has been it thrown back rudely. I can understand you being uptight about the initial salvo of comments received, but now it is unnecessary.

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That's as maybe, but the OP is talking about a Clipper.

Said almost exactly the same on page 4.....Seems OP has not learnt manners, despite some advice pointing towards that part of his postings. Like me Siranui, the Ignore button is very good for these occasions.

 

[Khazid]

I suspect that the clipper is not as agile as it seems in the sense that it can turn in a very tight radious.
Rather it is very speedy, so even though it turns in a very wide arc, it covers that arc very quickly resulting in great angular speed for its size, which in a dogfight is what matters.
I suspect since the game launched that agility stats are based on how tight a turn a ship can make (which is favorable for ships that have a very slow blue zone) but that stat does not show how quickly you can turn to line up gunsights.

You may be turning tight, but at a slow speed, and actually make an 180 turn in 5 secs.
You can also turn very wide, but if you go at the same linear speed you will turn 180 degrees slower.

Agility should take into account how quickly you can do an 180 more than how tight a turn a ship can make at its blue zone IMHO.
Clipper gets an agility stat of just 2(!) because its turns tend to be wide, even though it can actually do an 180 pretty fast...
Also sideways thrusters play their role...

 

[shadragon]

Yes, because obviously playing the entire X-wing and Tie Fighter series, wing commanders, Conflict Freespace 1 & 2 and have handed more than my fair share of players own backsides back to them in CQC... So I obviously can't fly a small ship.

Excuse me whilst I point out the utter arrogance and baseless assumptions of your posts.

Take a deep breath SkipRat. This has been a bone of contention for some time. I've been in my FDL with 4 pips to ENG and had an Adder (which is technically 2 steps lower on the maneuverability scale) out-turn me. I was told I wasn't flying it right as well. That I should be using FA Off, that I should be in a smaller more nimble ship, blah blah blah.

Somewhat like you, I've played several thousand computer games in my lifetime. I have issues with very few. Since 2.1 dropped, I've only killed three ships and died eight times. The AI cheats. I don't know if this is because of Engineer enhancements, or by design, or a bug, but AI ships perform at a level beyond their stated capabilities. It seems to be tied to combat rating. On one account (the one I mentioned above with only three kills, I'm "Dangerous". On my other account I'm "Competent" and can out fight ships without too much trouble.

Put another way, if I encounter AI in the same ship class with identical AI combat rating, on two accounts, I can win one fight and lose the other. That's a disparity I have issues with. The further I progress, the harder I have to work to maintain momentum. There comes a point where that is no longer fun.

 

[Iskariot]

Yes, because obviously playing the entire X-wing and Tie Fighter series, wing commanders, Conflict Freespace 1 & 2 and have handed more than my fair share of players own backsides back to them in CQC... So I obviously can't fly a small ship.

Excuse me whilst I point out the utter arrogance and baseless assumptions of your posts.

Playing X-wing, tie-fighter and Freespace will not improve your skills for Elite, just like playing checkers will not improve your chess skills.
Those are different games with their own mechanics and idiosyncrasies.

Perhaps I missed it, but I did not see you mention what ship you were flying and what ship it was that humiliated you.

And nobody here has an actual idea about the level of your skills.
You might be quite skilled, but perhaps simply made a few mistakes. I do that all the time .
Some people gave some very useful pointers already.
You can always try to improve yourself and do better next time.

 

[Darrett]

Take a deep breath SkipRat. This has been a bone of contention for some time. I've been in my FDL with 4 pips to ENG and had an Adder (which is technically 2 steps lower on the maneuverability scale) out-turn me. I was told I wasn't flying it right as well. That I should be using FA Off, that I should be in a smaller more nimble ship, blah blah blah. Somewhat like you, I've played several thousand computer games in my lifetime. I have issues with very few. Since 2.1 dropped, I've only killed three ships and died eight times. The AI cheats. I don't know if this is because of Engineer enhancements, or by design, or a bug, but AI ships perform at a level beyond their stated capabilities. It seems to be tied to combat rating. On one account (the one I mentioned above with only three kills, I'm "Dangerous". On my other account I'm "Competent" and can out fight ships without too much trouble. Put another way, if I encounter AI in the same ship class with identical AI combat rating, on two accounts, I can win one fight and lose the other. That's a disparity I have issues with. The further I progress, the harder I have to work to maintain momentum. There comes a point where that is no longer fun.

Those are the arguments that we hear time and time again from people who are more interested in MMO progression mechanics (Bigger ship = better) rather than an interesting and balanced combat model. Large ships currently change vectors too quickly and are too maneuverable. If they increased drift in larger ships and decreased their ability to accelerate to maximum speed on all thrusters and especially forward facing thrusters, it would allow small ships to take advantage of this at close range by changing circling vectors to stay out of frontal firing arcs. This opens up roles for ships that aren't ultra-maneuverable like the Cobra Mk IV as well, since now you don't have every other ship in the game capable of dogfighting. What you'll hear is that you just don't know how to maneuver because you don't use FA Off, despite the fact that FA off turning does not increase maximum pitching speed and results in a head to head situation, which is the last thing a small ship pilot wants. The reality is that the combat model is flawed because of a lack of a ship roles system being instituted that makes your ship choice as well as your loadout a major decision point in what enemies you'll be most/least effective against.

 

[AdmiralFloof]

That is true. My Corvette with Dirty Drive 5 actually can stay toe to toe with FDL, FAS, Vulture, Asp and Anaconda in RES and CZ without losing sight and even if it does, it's only for a few seconds and that's because I use all Gimballed. The thing is that all my weapons are also modded so it doesn't matter for small ships like Cobra, Viper and Eagle since those gets destroyed in one pass, at most 2 passes

 

[Darrett]

That is true. My Corvette with Dirty Drive 5 actually can stay toe to toe with FDL, FAS, Vulture, Asp and Anaconda in RES and CZ without losing sight and even if it does, it's only for a few seconds and that's because I use all Gimballed. The thing is that all my weapons are also modded so it doesn't matter for small ships like Cobra, Viper and Eagle since those gets destroyed in one pass, at most 2 passes

This is the other part of the equation. As a small ship pilot, I have no issue with being melted very quickly by frontal firing arcs of big ships, or with them being difficult to destroy (even more so than now). They should be absolutely beasts, and not for me to destroy in a one on one fight with my 7.5 million CR Diamondback. The thing is that this shouldn't be caused by the ability of the Corvette or Anaconda to keep me in front of it, but more because it's simply a powerful ship with strong shields, hull, and turreted weapons/fighter escorts.

 

[Fost]

I was an A rated Cobra Mark III and the other ship was a Imperial Clipper, fast straight line speed but not very manoeuvrable. And when I hit the blue section for optimal turning speed, by the time I had turned around, the clipper was already facing me.

I've been in this same situation with the same ships. The clipper can be lethal because it will reverse turn and face tank you and is very hard to get behind unless you boost. Also the cobra is NOT a fast manoeuvring ship - it's a gen purpose ship.

What's also relevant is the Clipper's combat rank as Elite's will potentially have engineer mods.
They will also manage pips really well so turn with ENG4 and then switch back to WEP4.

Also were you using up<>down thrust to shorten the turn OR reverse turning?

 

[AdmiralFloof]

This is the other part of the equation. As a small ship pilot, I have no issue with being melted very quickly by frontal firing arcs of big ships, or with them being difficult to destroy (even more so than now). They should be absolutely beasts, and not for me to destroy in a one on one fight with my 7.5 million CR Diamondback. The thing is that this shouldn't be caused by the ability of the Corvette or Anaconda to keep me in front of it, but more because it's simply a powerful ship with strong shields, hull, and turreted weapons/fighter escorts.

I agree on that. Engineers really put everything out of whack. Stock Corvette could only have 210m/s and 280m/s boost speed, 1500MJ+ shield, 12ly jump range. Now my Corvette which is only for PvE has 275m/s and 350m/s boost speed, with 4000MJ shield, +50% thermal resistance, and double firepower versus stock and so much more. If anything, even if you're flying a small ship, you would have to mod it now so that there's a common denominator in play. Without Engineers, everything is just out of whack. But I can't complain because I love my Corvette even more XD

 

[Deleted member 115407]

If I was in a Cobra Mk.III and faced a random NPC Clipper I'd be VERY cautious.
And first thing I always when engaged is to asceratin the enemy pilot's Rank.

My standard interceptor is a Cobra III, and I always run from Clippers. Maybe it's just me, they're too much hassle and too much risk.

 

[Sardu]

Wait a tick...

How are the ships able to thrust backwards so much? There are no front thrusters. You would think they would be reliant on the small boosters to do that but they should offer nowhere near the speed you can attain in backward thrust now. Am I missing something?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

4A Thrusters
4C Bioweave
1G 2x Gimble pulse
2F 2x Multicannons
3D life support
4A Jump drive
3A Power plant
Heat Sink
Chaff
24 Tons of silver at the time

Why do you have a heatsink? You shouldn't be overheating in this setup. Dump that thing and replace it with an A booster.

Also, why the silver? Did you stop during a trade or delivery run to get into a fight?

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Nope, as soon as I turned to face it, it would already be facing me... I just could no turn quick enough.

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I agree, the viper should be nasty in combat, it is what it is designed for, yet is slightly less nimble than the Cobra MKIII and IMO, I think the Cobra MKIII is a better combat ship than the viper. Not that many people use it, because the ship is more or less pointless, it's just cannon fodder.

Wait, what? Which of these ships is cannon fodder?

 

[Darrett]

Wait a tick...How are the ships able to thrust backwards so much? There are no front thrusters. You would think they would be reliant on the small boosters to do that but they should offer nowhere near the speed you can attain in backward thrust now. Am I missing something?

They should be able to attain high reverse speeds, but the acceleration from front facing thrusters should be abysmally slow, meaning that changing vectors while flying backwards would be extremely difficult.

 

[Becks]

Wait a tick...

How are the ships able to thrust backwards so much? There are no front thrusters. You would think they would be reliant on the small boosters to do that but they should offer nowhere near the speed you can attain in backward thrust now. Am I missing something?

All big ships have front thrusters ^^

Additionally the thrusters on the back could be able to reverse thrust like plane engines.

 

[AdamBell]

Clippers invariably run gimballed weapons and have a wide arc of fire with them as they're centre mass, unlike lots of hardpoints of other ships (cf the Cobra 3's wing mounts). If you really want to fight a Clipper in a Cobra, bring double chaff next time and keep it chafflocked continously. It doesn't have to outturn you otherwise, just keep you with ~60 degress of its front arc. I would note that gimballed weapons are effectively reduced arc turrets, which you say that you want.

Also, the Cobra 3 really isn't a very good combat ship. Try a Viper if you want a proper small ship - big ship comparison.

 

[Loboguará]

Srsly guys, why bother with the OP? He is so sure of his pilot prowess, he go "don't bore me" wen we are trying to help or say that maybe it's his fault. No one is the perfect one. And even experienced real pilots make mistakes. He tell about arrogance, but he is the only one here being arrogant. Accept your fault, little boy. And grow up in the process.
"big ship" clipper is piece of cake to take if you realy know what are you doing. She is manouverable as hell, if you treat her right (just go to YouTube for Kornelius Briedis clipper, fas, python, fdl comparison.) and npc treat they ships just right (with some cheetah sweat juice as additive, also).

 

[Divine Cerinian]

How about you turn down the suck, and you should be just fine? No? Shame.

 

[Troy_McClure]

I have to agree with the above comments and Soopyyy i applaud you sir, for not using that puerile & un-educated term, that school children use.... You know the one the............... G G one!

Oh the irony...uneducated.