I often ask myself if there is a middle ground,
something that the playerbase can agree on
and showcase to the devs as a suitable solution,
i really hope for it.
Then i read the forums.
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The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
- Start date
I often ask myself if there is a middle ground,
something that the playerbase can agree on
and showcase to the devs as a suitable solution,
i really hope for it.
Then i read the forums.
Wait, everyone has 3d printers so in effect we're now Star Trek? Why do you need any type of goods at all other than the base materials needed to make them? So do they make this ship at the other end so now you have 2 ships? So presumably I could have 1000 duplicate ships across the system or more?
Yeah, I dunno how they're going to go about that. Maybe like Vaults in Fallout? The modules are always the same, but the configuration of modules can vary.
Yes, some can be ignored better than others.
Some just smack you in the face, instantly.
Sure seems that way!?
Sorry, not read the whole thread (mostly only MB's posts in it), but my vote is FOR instant transfers. Anything else will make for worse gameplay:
If a 100Ly transfer takes (say)20 minutes 10 minutes 5 minutes, then it's just an annoyance, something that causes you curse ED for making you twiddle your thumbs. Such a delay adds nothing, but takes much away. OTOH, if we imagine it taking an hour or so (enough for you to do something else worthwhile), then you immediately run into the problem that (1) you might as well fetch the (censored) thing yourself, and (2) what happens if in the middle of a transfer you decide you need it somewhere else? Are you allowed to redirect it? How does that affect the delay (several more hours?)?
In short, non-instant transfers just lead to needless design complexity (and so user confusion) or simply user annoyance.
WHY do we have to justify instant transfers, beyond gameplay? We already have major gameplay features that don't make much "real world" sense: When you die you are INSTANTLY transported to your last space station, with both you & the ship intact (sans cargo), assuming you have enough "insurance". When you log-out, you disappear, becoming effectively invisible & invulnerable (but this is such a common gaming trope we don't notice it). Ship repairs & refueling are done INSTANTLY at space stations, no matter how badly damaged/empty your ship is, while replacing parts is near instant. etc.
In short, sometimes plausible reality (or ED's equivalent of it) must be ignored because it would ruin gameplay.
To me it seems the more reasonable objections are gameplay related (i.e. how it might make gameplay worse, by having all your ships as close as your nearest space station). But if it costs some % of your ships value (inc upgrades) per Ly to be transported, I think that would go a long way to making players think twice before doing the transfer. Want you 100 million credit ship to be transfered half-way across the bubble? Then it should cost you as much as the ship is worth. Make you consider just transporting it yourself. And cost per Ly should rise sharply after some distance (I don't know, maybe 100Ly?), to discourage long-distance shipping except when it's really needed (while still allowing short-range shipping that saves on the inconvenience of getting it yourself).
MB talked about a cost cap. That cap should be the value of the ship itself. Which should be hit when you want to transfer it more than a certain distance. And there should also be a distance limit for transfering to be allowed, so you cannot (for example) transfer a ship outside the bubble to Jacques' station.
If a 100Ly transfer takes (say)
In short, non-instant transfers just lead to needless design complexity (and so user confusion) or simply user annoyance.
WHY do we have to justify instant transfers, beyond gameplay? We already have major gameplay features that don't make much "real world" sense: When you die you are INSTANTLY transported to your last space station, with both you & the ship intact (sans cargo), assuming you have enough "insurance". When you log-out, you disappear, becoming effectively invisible & invulnerable (but this is such a common gaming trope we don't notice it). Ship repairs & refueling are done INSTANTLY at space stations, no matter how badly damaged/empty your ship is, while replacing parts is near instant. etc.
In short, sometimes plausible reality (or ED's equivalent of it) must be ignored because it would ruin gameplay.
To me it seems the more reasonable objections are gameplay related (i.e. how it might make gameplay worse, by having all your ships as close as your nearest space station). But if it costs some % of your ships value (inc upgrades) per Ly to be transported, I think that would go a long way to making players think twice before doing the transfer. Want you 100 million credit ship to be transfered half-way across the bubble? Then it should cost you as much as the ship is worth. Make you consider just transporting it yourself. And cost per Ly should rise sharply after some distance (I don't know, maybe 100Ly?), to discourage long-distance shipping except when it's really needed (while still allowing short-range shipping that saves on the inconvenience of getting it yourself).
MB talked about a cost cap. That cap should be the value of the ship itself. Which should be hit when you want to transfer it more than a certain distance. And there should also be a distance limit for transfering to be allowed, so you cannot (for example) transfer a ship outside the bubble to Jacques' station.
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To be fair, let's not equate 3D Printers to Replicators. Replicators turn energy into matter, and therefore can do anything.
3D printers cannot use lead "toner" and turn it into gold, so to speak.
This is the Xenophobe making delivery of 3 Anaconda, 2 Cutter and one Furry Animal.
No body is forcing you to twiddle your thumbs for 20 minute while your other ships comes. You could, you know, maybe play the game while your ship is in transit.
I'm struggling to envisage a 3D printer that can make things 'instantly' that isn't like a replicator.
OK, make that 10 minutes then. Whatever time is too short to do anything meaningful. (Which was the point of my argument there.)
I keep all my ships on a usb stick.
Stick it in.
Press print.
Bobs your Uncle.
Whats all the drama? Its the 31st century for goodness sake.
I want Space Dragons.
Omg. The screenshots! The screenshots! I tellya.
Stick it in.
Press print.
Bobs your Uncle.
Whats all the drama? Its the 31st century for goodness sake.
I want Space Dragons.
Omg. The screenshots! The screenshots! I tellya.
So you still do something that takes 20 minutes, and when that is done, gosh look, your ship is there.
Probably because all the 3D printers we see right now tend to make things in one go... except it's one material, like plastic or metal. But you couldn't print a computer that way. You'd need one machine to print the housing, another to create the circuit boards, another for connecting wires, etc... then another machine to assemble all the pieces.
Can still easily do a quick trade mission in 10 minute, no probs. The only time it gets difficult is when you have only a few minute. Still nothing is stopping you from doing something else, then coming back and jumping into your other ship.
The delay stops any kind of exploits which can effect other players that don't like the feature, doesn't really effect you much as you can still play the game. It is a win win for everyone. But if you really don't want to wait for your ship to arrive, just buy one at the shipyard, outfit it and go. It won't be as good as your specialist ship, but sure it will get you by untill it arrives.
Yes, this will be sweet for CGs unless the cost is prohibitively high.
1. Deliver goods using bulk transport ship. <-- You get some credits
2. Instant ship transfer of high range FSD ship to CG location. <-- This costs you credits
3. Fly back to get goods as quick as possible.
4. Instant ship transport of bulk hauler. <-- This costs you credits
5. Deliver goods using bulk transport ship. <-- You get some credits
If you are doing it for the credits the costs might matter, if you are trying to quickly win a CG, especially in a Feds vs. Imp scenario the costs might not matter at all.
Obviously this is one of those scenarios that will have to be rigorously tested in beta.
Ok disclaimer : overcaring mode active
The thing is (for me) that even with a delay, let's say half an hour at least, you still would have access to this QoL improvement and your "fly all my ships" experience.
You're a bit disappointed, annoyed with the delay but half an hour is still vastly faster than carrying 20 ships around. It's a win-win scenario for you.
Now you take away the delay, you're perfectly happy but my experience has been broken : it would not need to be if you could wait half an hour. But there, in this scenario you defend, I completely lost my suspension of disbelief and parts of why I love the game. You gain something, I lose one.
So it's between you facing a little annoyance and me facing huge disappointment. *Overcare off*
Yeah, I can pretend nothing happened, that is what I will do, but selfishness! this world is selfishness! *overcare overdrive*.
My time is limited. I generally don't want to do something else for 20 minutes, I want to do what I had initially set out for, be it combat, mining, whatever.
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I am EXTREMELY selfish when it comes to my free time. I am sorry if it dissapoints you, but I don't have the capability to reclaim that 30 minutes, where as you can set a 30 minute timer on your phone to simulate your ship in transit. To me, that sounds more like a win-win.Ok disclaimer : overcaring mode active
The thing is (for me) that even with a delay, let's say half an hour at least, you still would have access to this QoL improvement and your "fly all my ships" experience.
You're a bit disappointed, annoyed with the delay but half an hour is still vastly faster than carrying 20 ships around. It's a win-win scenario for you.
Now you take away the delay, you're perfectly happy but my experience has been broken : it would not need to be if you could wait half an hour. But there, in this scenario you defend, I completely lost my suspension of disbelief and parts of why I love the game. You gain something, I lose one.
So it's between you facing a little annoyance and me facing huge disappointment. *Overcare off*
Yeah, I can pretend nothing happened, that is what I will do, but selfishness! this world is selfishness! *overcare overdrive*.
Maybe they should just arrange for an official poll in one of the future newsletters, or on their website, with a chance to win a paintjob or a similar reward thrown in to entice people to vote. I believe there have been campaigns in the past where you had to log in with your game account to receive a reward, so it's possible.
I don't know why everyone is under the false delusion that when you die in ED that you "instantly" appear in a station. When I fall asleep in the passenger seat of my car while my wife drives 4 hours, I wake up and I have the "perception" that its been a few minutes but in reality its been four hours.
Plausible story for when you die in ED, you're g DEAD. Time has no meaning. Hours are as days and years are as minutes.
Having a hyper-efficient autonomously piloted function to get your hull delivered in a slightly delayed time frame would be a much cleaner and easier to explain since "easy" seems to be a concern.
MB, you say that this has been discussed at end amongst the FDevs. You do realize that there are a LOT more of us players (customers) than FDevs and that from the results of the threadnaught poll, that the overwhelming majority want a small delay?
So I have to wonder, who are you developing ED for? You or us, your playing, paying customers. Wait ... you already have my money. Hmm. Decisions to make.
Plausible story for when you die in ED, you're g DEAD. Time has no meaning. Hours are as days and years are as minutes.
Having a hyper-efficient autonomously piloted function to get your hull delivered in a slightly delayed time frame would be a much cleaner and easier to explain since "easy" seems to be a concern.
MB, you say that this has been discussed at end amongst the FDevs. You do realize that there are a LOT more of us players (customers) than FDevs and that from the results of the threadnaught poll, that the overwhelming majority want a small delay?
So I have to wonder, who are you developing ED for? You or us, your playing, paying customers. Wait ... you already have my money. Hmm. Decisions to make.