***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL

[CMDR Corlas]

But what's stopping them from requesting a delivery of their shiny fighter / mining hulk / space truckin' machine / battle-barge at the end of a session and then pick it up the next day once it's turned up?

I would be fine doing that, and it seems like you would too, but that's part of the differences of wanting or being able to focus, time-wise or mentally, so much on a videogame. Planning your next play-session doesn't really equal "casual".

/note, I don't think "casual" is a derogatory term, and I do not intend it as such

 

[Kyokushin]

I am really glad FD decided to make this official poll and i have a hope a common sense will win, and there will be a DELAY.

 

[MacAdler]

The way I see it, the same principle/technology that is used, lore wise, to give me back my ship after it has been destroyed is the same that would be used to bring my ship immediately from another station. The last station I ported doesn't have all the components for my ship, but they do have the specs, and because of that they can "print"(?) another one, exactly as the one I had before.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I still reasonably don't understand why they didn't just have it as instant, but you initiate the ship transfer from your point of departure, rather than calling it to you, with cost dependent on distance out to a maximum of 600ly (to avoid the Jaques handwringing).

This gives the impression of a time delay (as you still have to fly to the bloody station after clicking the 'send' button) whilst in mechanics term, the transfer was instantaneous.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xP8jIZpfXe8FZm/giphy.gif

Wouldn't that be a bit of a problem if I'm already at the station where I want to have that ship?

I'm in System A and a ship I want is in System B. Should I have to fly to system B, send my ship to System A and then fly back? I could do that with a Taxi-Hauler

 

[MahdDogg]

not a non-question. It follows the very logic you apply to ship transfer. It's fine for one but not the other? You've given no answer that justifies your cognitive dissonance on the issue. Just because you can't parse the two points of view doesn't make the questioning of the logic irrelevant. I'll keep holding, someone might take the time to actually come up with a justifiable answer to the very relevant challenge. Blue might suit me, I like smurfs.

 

[Jukelo]

I still reasonably don't understand why they didn't just have it as instant, but you initiate the ship transfer from your point of departure, rather than calling it to you, with cost dependent on distance out to a maximum of 600ly (to avoid the Jaques handwringing).

This gives the impression of a time delay (as you still have to fly to the bloody station after clicking the 'send' button) whilst in mechanics term, the transfer was instantaneous.

True, pushing basically fixes everything.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I'm really torn on this one!

For those still yet to vote, keep in mind that this will likely be a pivotal moment in the type of game Elite turns out to be in the future. Instant transfer could have a lot of potential impact upon current gameplay, both intended and unintended. Once that setup is in place, all future changes in the game after that point will likely rely on the instant transfer of ships. And once we have that feature, what's to stop other features being made more convenient?

On the other hand, I have never liked time-sinks of any type...Elite already has far too many of them. How much does time-delayed transfers help with those time-sinks? It makes them "easier" because it is automated, but they are still there. However, what makes Elite special for many people is it's simulated galaxy. A time-delay gives convenience whilst maintaining much of the current design philosophy of the game.

So - just for a moment, consider this poll as something larger than whether or not you want instant-ship transfers or not, because the result in either event could quite possibly have a heavy influence upon the future development decisions of this game.

Hey Obsidian , True i have the same felling, hence my sig... Well I think that way, Lore BY lore, wich one is more exploitable (IN GAME INTEREST SPEAKING!!!!) , I mean what can we get from a 3d printed lore? I can't think of a good dawn thing...

NOW on the other hand, What can we get from a Capital FEDEX ship? These are somethings that i came up with:

1. Capital Fedex Ship arrive at the side of a Starport, Ships coming out from it sides , all of then go into the coriolis port, that would be an AMAZING sight....

2. CFS in a Distress signal, you help the poor ship fend of the attackers (we already have this with capitalships),
but would be more Insteresting having this with a ship that is not combat intented.

3. Capital Degraded Signal , THE CFS ship destroyed by a pirate attack or whatever, you can venture inside the "cargo" area to find some rare materials for engineers also good hide out for a pirate attack...

4. Docking on those for buying stolen ships (will be cheaper, but may come with a huge bounty on your tail)

 

[KakerMix]

The way I see it, the same principle/technology that is used, lore wise, to give me back my ship after it has been destroyed is the same that would be used to bring my ship immediately from another station. The last station I ported doesn't have all the components for my ship, but they do have the specs, and because of that they can "print"(?) another one, exactly as the one I had before.

No see that doesn't count because of
uh


"reasons"

 

[Sammclark]

Not sure if you're trolling, but you have to wait a short delay to you crew member get their to the hangar and put their "virtual reality googles" , so maybe 1 hour would be fine (JK!!!!!!!!)

If you are serious... your fighter must be inside your hangar before the attack, so it should be instante because he is already there

DELAY HOHAY!!!!

if you watched gamescom then my post would make more sense, just spinning some humour to a little bit of a fractious debate.

 

[ROSS-128]

I agree with this, if I can create shipping orders that move ships around however I want without having to first travel to the station, a delay makes sense and adds those planning opportunities or whatever Team Immersion wants. If I have to go to that place first, it has to be instant. If I can send ships around arbitrarily, it should still be instant (after all I still have to go to that place to fly it) but at least it isn't as abhorrent.

The idea of 100 minutes of real life time for 300ly is just completely insane. Like, it's stunningly bad.

That's what I'm aiming for long-term:

1: Reasonable delay based on known FSD performance. For many ships, this is closer to 30m for 400LY than 100 for 300.
2: Ability to order multiple transfers simultaneously. This is, primarily, a bulk logistics feature.
3: Ability to order transfers remotely. This way, the delay is only really relevant if for some reason I feel an overwhelming urge to order a single ship to me on the spot, instead of rebasing my fleet in the general area for future access.

In order to get to that end though, we have to vote for delay now no matter how silly FD's particular implementation is. We can get the time nerfed later, but if they go instant now it's unlikely we will ever see any improvement.

I'm playing the long game here.

 

[TomR]

I think there should be a small chance of any credit transaction resulting in fraud and you lose your credits and gain nothing.

 

[Mephane]

Is it just me or is the split across the community probably a tension between explorers and the more pew pew oriented crowd (roughly spoken)? As far as I'm aware the explorers were always the clear majority in ED and I bet most of them are voting pro delay...
It's not hard to foresee the result of this poll btw.

I am equally explorer and (PvE) pew pew and in favour of delay.

 

[Eera]

Replied : delay ship transfer. NO INSTANT TRANSFER.

What about a poll for RNGineer remove ?

 

[Alien]

My solution was this:

Instant transfer but with a background story that won't break immersion -

Rather than your ship being transferred you are paying someone a fee to build a ship identical to the one you own, whilst simultaneously remotely selling your old ship through a broker, for another small fee.

Problem solved

Except ... what happens then when you want your A rated Cutter from Shinrarta Dezhra, and you're in Bob's Bath & Beyond, that only sells a Sidewinder and has no outfitting?

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commanders!

Just a friendly reminder, let's keep things civil, folks.

 

[Leo Sagan]

Just going to bookmark this thread for the next "Devs don't listen" post

Thanks Sandro! <3

Same here, but for the next "don't whine , FD's decisions are final" posts.
To each his own I guess

 

[Paramemetic]

I'm still voting for the delay despite their specific proposal being over the top though, because it will be FAR easier to get them to nerf an overly long delay than it will be to get the instant gratification monkeys to let go of the instant transfer banana.

I mean, not really. This is Frontier. It's very easy to get them to make things harder and more tedious than it is to get them to make things easier. For example, when Engineers dropped in Beta we were all stunned at how easy it was to get cool effects on your guns. "This is great!" "Lots of fun, very easy, awesome!" Then some people said "no the chance is too high, it should be more like 50% or 30%." Then we got 6%. They did that while still in Beta.

It took months to address the horrible, horrible grind. When the grind was horribly tedious, they dialed it back a little bit and removed a lot of requirements, but not before they tried to solve the problem by just giving you bigger space pockets (which, by the way, is not very immersive. How am I flying around with 400 Sulphur in my space pocket? [NB: I really like this implementation I am not actually complaining because only an idiot would complain about things that make a game more fun and less tedious]).

So I mean, generally Frontier is really really bad about this kind of thing and likes to leave it in place out of spite. Adding a delay is completely something that can be done later if instant doesn't work, but once a time limit is in and there are lore justifications for it, it will never be able to become instant.

I mean, just realistically speaking, once this is implemented it's likely final, which is why we shouldn't vote for the second worst option.

I feel like this is an American election - the thought of one candidate is unfathomably awful so instead we have to vote for another distasteful, horrible option. My vote about gameplay decision shouldn't be between one of two just terrible options. For many people the instant transfer is unconscionable, so making their alternative punitive to the people who want it to be instant is criminal.

But again, nobody should be surprised because this is classic Frontier. It's a shame, we were all celebrating that Frontier had finally started to prioritize actually having fun with the game with their two good decisions (instant ship transfer, printing fighters), and now they've backed off on one of them.



Anyhow I'm the galaxy where I can pay to have a ship transferred across the galaxy, but I can't pay a member of the pilot's federation to do it, because player to player money transfer is impossible in 3302.

 

[Sans Daring]

Plus side - thanks Sandro for listening. Seeing the points you've made that as an office you are considering is great. It means you guys read those horridly filled threads and caught the arguments against the proposal that were both gameplay and immersion breaking.

My only concern is pretty much embedded in 2016 - referendums decisions can be far too arbitary. I do like how you're giving yourselves wiggle-room to make a decision rather than saying you'll "go with the majority". My only two-cents is what is in my head pretty obvious:

Majority in either direction doesn't mean the right thing. If one offered 500,000 million for buying the next expansion, few would say that's a bad thing - they'd all vote for it. Does it mean that when they've used it to make their killa anaconda, are they going to get the satisfaction they desire? Or does that Anaconda feel less special given its had no effort in getting a sought after A-grade ship? Does the game thereby feel less special?

That's the point to me about instant-transfer. With it being a big scale reward, with no balance in burden/risk, it becomes a glorified cheat code. You get what you want with no real balance of loss or challenge. We all know that's dangerous for any game - cheat codes are ALWAYS desired, but mark the movement to disinterest because it gives too easy. Doesn't mean ship transfer is wrong, but beyond immersion, beyond gameplay issues such as FSD devaluing - is instant too easy for gamers that ships - the key asset in Elite Dangerous - loss their value?

If the ships become swappable on demand, they become less real, which is the risk of any cheat code - the cheat isn't so much allowing the player to do something they want to do, it's about reducing the game's ability to stop them doing what they want to do. It's why cheats are so dangerous, the game loses its strength. The game loses its challenge, the core attribute of any game (by very definition).

So to me, immersion and gameplay aside, instant-transfer has a cheat-code mentality - we all like the idea of not having to do something dull, or not get something when we demand it, but it devalues aspects of the game in practice. So when people say "yes", one has to be careful that "yes" might make Elite a little less engaging in the long run, and that to me is a risk ED can't afford.

Thanks for listening. Or reading. or scrolling past.

 

[Maxulic]

Wouldn't that be a bit of a problem if I'm already at the station where I want to have that ship?

I'm in System A and a ship I want is in System B. Should I have to fly to system B, send my ship to System A and then fly back? I could do that with a Taxi-Hauler

It means that you would still have to think ahead and plan what you will need (so you were in the bubble, sent your ASP to Jaques while you took your Anaconda with a full cargo of mats for the CG) instead of flying there and say "damn I need my ASP for that exploration CG" and conveniently bring it to you.

 

[Jhyrryl]

A delay is fine, as long as the delay makes sense -- 100 minutes to cross 200 LYs is silly slow. The absolute slowest that a ship capable of doing that run could go, even accounting for non-racing reaction times, is more like 12 LYs per minute. The bubble is about 200 LYs across, which gives:

200 / 12 = ~17 minutes​

With 5 minutes of overhead, that's 23 minutes to cross the bubble. And "realistically" it should be somewhat faster, more like 20 LYs per minute with +5 in overhead, which gives 15 minutes to cross the bubble.

And delivery by bulk transport should only be required if the ship in question can't go as fast. If the ship *can* go faster than the transport, then we should be talking about hiring 2 pilots and their Adder. 1 pilot flies your ship, and the other shuttles him home.