That's a Logical fallacy and misconstrues what the "instant transfer" people value. No one wants instant max rank everything and infinite money or some such. They want to play the game and not having to manage their time around ships being moved. When their friends are getting together to have a good time, they don't want to have to wait a half hour because they didn't have a ship nearby.
***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
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That's a Logical fallacy and misconstrues what the "instant transfer" people value. No one wants instant max rank everything and infinite money or some such. They want to play the game and not having to manage their time around ships being moved. When their friends are getting together to have a good time, they don't want to have to wait a half hour because they didn't have a ship nearby.
Less than 2 hours to get all the way across the bubble (around 600ly) is not a massively long time IMHO. Most transfers, I posit, will be closer to 10-30 minutes......which is entirely reasonsble IMHO.
When I order a pizza it usually take between 20 and 30 minutes for delivery. I suppose we could wait that long for ship delivery!
Have voted for delayed transfer but I have to say, whatever Frontier decide to implement, I have a sneaking suspicion the "losing side" will not accept the result quietly and we will have thread purgatory for several weeks or even months after.
Nice thought, but I don't see any way FD can make everybody happy this time. I think they've really stepped in it, realized it after the cow got out of the barn, and are now hoping that we do their brainstorming for them to get them out of this mess.
Good luck - I'll be truly impressed if they even get close.
How do you log in to vote?
When I enter my 'Frontier Account' email & password, I'm told "Invalid Frontier Account"
But if I click the "my account' link at top right, I'm taken to my account page. I'm logged into my Frontier Account. I know the email & password are correct, because I can log into my frontier account.
What am I doing wrong?
When I enter my 'Frontier Account' email & password, I'm told "Invalid Frontier Account"
But if I click the "my account' link at top right, I'm taken to my account page. I'm logged into my Frontier Account. I know the email & password are correct, because I can log into my frontier account.
What am I doing wrong?
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Space is a little bigger. :>
If the delays are small times - as the poll seems to suggest - then it is a waste of time and I can see why FD had decided to make it instant.
Short delays are basically pointless, people will still fly any journey of size in their taxi Anaconda/Asp as its quicker and then call their ship of choice over. An arbitrary short delay in its arrival will then just prove an annoyance.
Now if the delay was instead an approximation of what it would take that ship to do the journey in, we end up with a more interesting environment. For example, something I posted from another thread on the matter:-
If delays are short, it'll prove no different to instant transport but with just an annoying delay.
As it stands, there is no option in the poll I believe I can vote on
Short delays are basically pointless, people will still fly any journey of size in their taxi Anaconda/Asp as its quicker and then call their ship of choice over. An arbitrary short delay in its arrival will then just prove an annoyance.
Now if the delay was instead an approximation of what it would take that ship to do the journey in, we end up with a more interesting environment. For example, something I posted from another thread on the matter:-
If delays are short, it'll prove no different to instant transport but with just an annoying delay.
As it stands, there is no option in the poll I believe I can vote on
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Unfortunately, I think you are correct. If FD had announced the ship transfer and never mentioned the time to transfer, few would have been upset. If during the beta people found out that the majority of transfers took 5-10 minutes, again few would have complained. By saying it was instant you were always going to be faced with players that didn't want it instant and those that needed it to remain instant.
There has to be time to it otherwise you will actively be rewarding those whom previously took the long jump range upgrades who will be more likely to move that to a different upgrade.
Instantly, goes to a further extreme that instant rebuy, cargo loading etc. (hopefully in future maybe there will be a time frame, maybe a timeframe for your rebought ship to be put back together)
Instantly, goes to a further extreme that instant rebuy, cargo loading etc. (hopefully in future maybe there will be a time frame, maybe a timeframe for your rebought ship to be put back together)
Yes, but my pizza guy doesn't have an FSD!
If nothing else, we will all remember the Great Transfer War of 2016. With this poll they've also managed to single-handedly silence all the pro/anti ganker threads.
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As it stands, there is no option in the poll I believe I can vote on
Not what I wanted either Neil, I was all for simulated transfer time as a placeholder for actual transfer. But it is what it is, and although one side of the argument will never see it that way, delay is the compromise.
It's more the difference between loading a pedal powered car (FSD) onto a truck (Hyperspace Freighter). A pedal powered car pedaled by someone who has stop every few minutes to take a drink. The pedal powered car is also 300+ years old and was found in a ditch but it's all the person can afford. Like some burger flipper on LHS 3447 outpost Trevithick dock saving up to buy a 300+ year old military surplus car that had it's engine, transmission, electrical system, gas tank, shocks, breaks removed to fit 4 bicycle wheels and some pedals.
Then that person, happy to have something, ANYTHING, starts yelling at the Bulk Freighter/Truck for being too fast and that going to the next city should take several years.
Yeah, technically it's a car, got 4 wheels, lights, a seat, pedals of a sort.
Have I mentioned the game's name yet, and the entire reason it's called Elite : Dangerous instead of Just Elite or Elite : Deadly? You know, the entire premise of the game where standards of spaceflight in the setting have been reduced due to a recent invention?
Yeah. So the question isn't how heavy a ship is, it's what kind of volume it takes up in the bulk freighter's hangar bay. It's not what kind of range the ship will have with it's FSD because it'll be turned off and the ship will be locked into place in the hangar. The freighter's interstellar speed is "instant" so that's not the limiting factor either.
It's availability and how long it'd take to load the ship on to the freighter. I'm in the instant camp because those bulk freighters won't actually exist in the game, they're in the lore, they're in the manual, they're just not there when I get to a station. So if I can't see ships getting loaded/unloaded from one of these freighters then I shouldn't have to pay for the time these invisible but there freighters are wasting me. Cost? Popular systems would be cheaper, empty systems more expensive to represent how hard it'd be to find one going to your destination or having been forced to charter one for just your ship. Jaques? Alioth<->Jaques should have freighter leaving every minute. Sol<->Achenar? That's not happening unless you shovel a lot of bribe money to the shipping company.
I don't think I'll be able to play if it's instant. It'll be like a terrible gaping plot-hole in a beloved sci-fi work.
I think both options should be implemented eventually, delayed being noticeably cheaper. Both should take into account the transferred ship's jump range in the cost, this would prevent equipping a 2D fsd on a corvette and would also encourage using engineers for increasing jump range.
I see the benefits of instant transfer on gameplay but, I play Elite because I want a coherent world, one that evokes an atmosphere of boundless space, gritty politics and "believable" fiction.
Being able to instantly relocate ships, modules etc. puts a damper on this for a lot of people and I can see why.
I also think that in the future - it could offer more gameplay (ship contracts, freighter protection, freighter espionage/assault), new ships (ship freighters) all of which would not be plausible or relevant were transfer instant.
Therefore I voted to have it timed.
e: Also, I want to see ship rental in the game, for trying out ships you can't afford to buy, for contracts (particularly faction and military/naval) and I believe this resolves the issue that concerns FD and apparently some of the players - the necessary immediacy of taking contracts or hitting up a combat zone or whatever it is.
Being able to instantly relocate ships, modules etc. puts a damper on this for a lot of people and I can see why.
I also think that in the future - it could offer more gameplay (ship contracts, freighter protection, freighter espionage/assault), new ships (ship freighters) all of which would not be plausible or relevant were transfer instant.
Therefore I voted to have it timed.
e: Also, I want to see ship rental in the game, for trying out ships you can't afford to buy, for contracts (particularly faction and military/naval) and I believe this resolves the issue that concerns FD and apparently some of the players - the necessary immediacy of taking contracts or hitting up a combat zone or whatever it is.
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What are these exploits people are quaking about with instant transfer? The only thing I can think of is people moving a low jumprange combat ship into an area that it wasn't in before...
Like if you're in a type-9, and run across a combat zone, and want to participate in it with your vulture, you can pay to have it transferred over.
That's the stated goal/point of the feature though. If you're worried about people punching a grief-ship to jaques - two things - 1) Too late, they're already there, and 2) They still have to get out there, so that's going to take days anyway.
Are there any other actual, real exploits here? Saving time on Sothis runs? So what? The cash grind is too high, then suddenly trivial anyway.
It won't really help getting imp/fed ranks. It will only help with engineer stuff in that it makes the game easier to play. Module transfer will help engineering bigly, but WAY LESS so if a timer gets put on that.
Overall, instant transfer seems like a good feature, time-delayed transfer for cost seems pointless. Even if it trades a rebuy-cost (therefore cutting bigly into profits) for time, I'm now stuck waiting for the ship instead of playing the game to go get it.
Like if you're in a type-9, and run across a combat zone, and want to participate in it with your vulture, you can pay to have it transferred over.
That's the stated goal/point of the feature though. If you're worried about people punching a grief-ship to jaques - two things - 1) Too late, they're already there, and 2) They still have to get out there, so that's going to take days anyway.
Are there any other actual, real exploits here? Saving time on Sothis runs? So what? The cash grind is too high, then suddenly trivial anyway.
It won't really help getting imp/fed ranks. It will only help with engineer stuff in that it makes the game easier to play. Module transfer will help engineering bigly, but WAY LESS so if a timer gets put on that.
Overall, instant transfer seems like a good feature, time-delayed transfer for cost seems pointless. Even if it trades a rebuy-cost (therefore cutting bigly into profits) for time, I'm now stuck waiting for the ship instead of playing the game to go get it.
If the delays are small times - as the poll seems to suggest - then it is a waste of time and I can see why FD had decided to make it instant.
Short delays are basically pointless, people will still fly any journey of size in their taxi Anaconda/Asp as its quicker and then call their ship of choice over. An arbitrary short delay in its arrival will then just prove an annoyance.
Now if the delay was instead an approximation of what it would take that ship to do the journey in, we end up with a more interesting environment. For example, something I posted from another thread on the matter:-
If delays are short, it'll prove no different to instant transport but with just an annoying delay.
As it stands, there is no option in the poll I believe I can vote on
Not at all.
The proposed transit times shown in the OP are based around 3ly per minute, which is already 3-4 times slower than the worse jump range ships.
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