The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Asp Explorer]

I think people are too harsh just with CIG/Chris Roberts because of things that escaped his own control. Yes some things were (badly) communicated. Increase of scope should have been reiterated that would mean an increase of the deadline, gamers don't have to know (but should) how making a game works.

But he's the CEO. It's up to him to make sure that everything in the company is under his control. Unfortunately, it does seem he takes that too literally and has to micromanage the refactor out of everything.

Delegation is one of the most useful tools available to leadership - but it appears CR doesn't know how to use it, or have enough belief / trust in other people to hand bits of his "vision" off to others to bring to realisation.

 

[milligna]

Going from studio to studio is quite different than crowdfunding your way from 6 people in a rented office to 4 studios and 330 dev's and developing 2 ambitious games at the same time.

Sorry, but no. It's completely normal to go from nothing to a hiring frenzy when you secure funding for a project. That's how... securing funding for projects to hire people WORKS. Whether you're a few people in an existing company pitching something to get more company resources allocated to it, an existing company opening new studios, or a crowdfunded project hiring when they get the cash. It simply doesn't take several years to get "up to speed" and thus all work during that period doesn't count or isn't actual development. You can say he WASTED those years on boondoggles and bad planning, sure. But shaving them off the Star Citizen timeline is dishonest. He was the great genius visionary who promised to do things smarter, cheaper, and better than the big publishers... and now we're grading him on a curve and making excuses?

That's just a bizarre fig leaf for the lack of progress on the project. "Oh it's all the success! All that money! Oh they were so small but now it's 300 so that's why development wasn't happening in 2011, 2012, or 2013 for that matter despite what the guy who leads the project says. Despite the fact that the official party line is ONLY the things CR says are accurate, I'm going to insist otherwise because that line about a project being stale sounds awful!"

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Going from studio to studio is quite different than crowdfunding your way from 6 people in a rented office to 4 studios and 330 dev's and developing 2 ambitious games at the same time. I think people are too harsh just with CIG/Chris Roberts because of things that escaped his own control. Yes some things were (badly) communicated. Increase of scope should have been reiterated that would mean an increase of the deadline, gamers don't have to know (but should) how making a game works.

Stop right there.

None of this "escaped his control". If he felt at any time that things were starting to get out of hand with regards to the ballooning scope creep of the project, then, as the actual PROJECT LEADER, perhaps he should have exhibited a bit of restraint and said, "Ok, we have enough money to get this, this and this done. Lets get on and finish this aspect of the game and see how it works."

Perhaps he could have also reconsidered expanding a 6 person group into a 300+ employee, 4 studio behemoth in the space of 2 years, knowing how such rapid expansion who be detrimental to the overall cohesion of managing the project.

But no, Roberts didn't do any of that did he?

Stop acting as though this was something that blind sided Roberts and CIG. It didn't.

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

But he's the CEO. It's up to him to make sure that everything in the company is under his control. Unfortunately, it does seem he takes that too literally and has to micromanage the refactor out of everything.

Delegation is one of the most useful tools available to leadership - but it appears CR doesn't know how to use it, or have enough belief / trust in other people to hand bits of his "vision" off to others to bring to realisation.

Well that's not entirely true, if he was really the unrelenting tyrant that some people seem to think he wouldn't have 4 studios spread across the world but just one where he could dictate as he wanted. Yes he travels a lot but he also has trusty people in key spots: His brother Erin, Tony Zurovec, Sean Tracy, Brian Chambers all seem to come across as developers completely in tune with Chris Roberts vision. The thing about Chris is that he has allways been a visionary, he has that clear picture of what he wants in his head and seems to be the kind of guy that doesn't rests until he makes it happen, hence this return from a 10 year hiatus when most would have thought that Space Games were dead and buried. Like all humans he has his flaws, but I think his virtues more than make up for it. Space genre as a lot to thank to Chris Roberts and so do gamers in general.

 

[Tippis]

Perhaps he could have also reconsidered expanding a 6 person group into a 300+ employee, 4 studio behemoth in the space of 2 years, knowing how such rapid expansion who be detrimental to the overall cohesion of managing the project.

Speaking of which, does that supposed 6-person group include the Crytek devs that were hired to actually cobble the demos together? Does the 300+ employee number include the many outside studios they employed at various stages to do work for CIG? What happened to that 400+ (or was it closer to 500) number that Ben(?) accidentally let slip somewhere in the '14–'15 period — was that all the CIG offices plus external contractors? Or was the external face of the company simply not aware of how large the company was and what it was doing?

Oh, and why did it supposedly take so long to get a bunch of companies going when both Chris and Ortwin have created several dozens of companies — individually and together — in their time as collaborators, and when most of their “lieutenants” already have established and trusted production posses to call on to start filling positions?

 

[Sunleader]

But he's the CEO. It's up to him to make sure that everything in the company is under his control. Unfortunately, it does seem he takes that too literally and has to micromanage the refactor out of everything.

Delegation is one of the most useful tools available to leadership - but it appears CR doesn't know how to use it, or have enough belief / trust in other people to hand bits of his "vision" off to others to bring to realisation.

Delegation of Decisions is a very very dangerous thing when its about your dreams.
Because others might not share or understand your dream.
And end up making decisions you did not want.

Game Development is not like a Donut Shop.
There is no rule book what you have to do when a Customer wants a Donut not on the list. Or if you cant make a certain Donut currently.
Because in Game Design each decision is unique and affect your dream.
Its not something you can make a rulebook for and delegate it to someone else.

 

[Asp Explorer]

The thing about Chris is that he has allways been a visionary

Exactly. That is both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness. He's got this vision for the game, but the realities of production don't meet them - and forever tweaking production to meet further impossibilities means everything gets further and further behind.

He should definitely keep to his vision - and guide the company to meet it - but he shouldn't be hampering the efforts of his own developers.

 

[milligna]

The thing about Chris is that he has allways been a visionary, he has that clear picture of what he wants in his head and seems to be the kind of guy that doesn't rests until he makes it happen,

So then why was Strike Commander a mess? Was he resting? Why did he lose control of Freelancer? Because his picture was so clear, it was perceived as blurry? Why when given his one real shot to join Hollywood as an auteur, he served up Wing Commander: The Movie? Everything lined up in place, his one claim to fame was being turned into a movie and he finally had his shot. Directing! Control of the script! And he blew it on a level that would make Ed Wood apologetic. He blew it on the level where he couldn't get a gig to do "The Toxic Avenger Goes Nutzoid" and will never score him a directing job in Hollywood again unless it's a self-funded vanity project for his wife.

That's your visionary with a clear picture that gamers in general have to thank? For what? Adding badly animated cutscenes to Battlehawks: 1942 decades ago? Abandoning the game they were anticipating to scratch his movie itch? Abandoning the field completely for over a decade and not coming back until he burned all his film bridges and had to come back hat in hand to beg for money out of nostalgic memories of speech packs? After first being told "thanks but no thanks" when he tried to get a Wing Commander game going?

It's not like he left to continue visionary visioning of things. He wrote nothing, directed nothing. He had a financial thumb in a few movie pies but no creative input whatsoever. That's your visionary? Over a decade, and no visions of anything worth noting? Just a money man that you won't find a single positive comment about from any of the actual creative teams behind Lord of War, Punisher, etc?

What exactly is the visionary part? Making a space shooter? Adding cut scenes to a space shooter was the visionary part? Failing to deliver a space shooter and being booted out of the company you started to not rest until you make it happen? Where's the vision stuff?

Oh, that must be the great vision made manifest.

He's had a lot of success crowdfunding and then running a permanent pay2win shop for unmade ship assets and it's landed him in the Guinness Book of World Records along with hundreds of other freaks, obsessives, and toenail clipping collectors... but really! There needs to be a tangible, released, visionary product brimming with genius and visionary vision to justify 1/10th the hyperbole you're deploying on a daily basis to defend THE GIFT TO ALL GAMERS IN GENERAL.

Otherwise it's another freakish entry in the record book to gawk at... Having pretty pictures in your head is the easy part. Executing them? That's the tricky bit.

 

[LeSabre]

Well that's not entirely true, if he was really the unrelenting tyrant that some people seem to think he wouldn't have 4 studios spread across the world but just one where he could dictate as he wanted. Yes he travels a lot but he also has trusty people in key spots: His brother Erin, Tony Zurovec, Sean Tracy, Brian Chambers all seem to come across as developers completely in tune with Chris Roberts vision. The thing about Chris is that he has allways been a visionary, he has that clear picture of what he wants in his head and seems to be the kind of guy that doesn't rests until he makes it happen, hence this return from a 10 year hiatus when most would have thought that Space Games were dead and buried. Like all humans he has his flaws, but I think his virtues more than make up for it. Space genre as a lot to thank to Chris Roberts and so do gamers in general.

Well, this is where I feel I should point a few things out.

1. Very few people look upon him as an unrelenting tyrant, the typical view is that he is an unrelenting buffoon.
2. Spreading studios around (not across, the world is a sphere not a flat surface) the world is not something he's done, he has just assimilated existing studios in other countries into his umbrella corp. They were already there.
3. He travels a lot because of having studios around the world, which in itself is a stupid thing to do in this day and age of telecommunications (I have to liase with a company in South Africa quite often due to work, I use the internet to do that and not a business class plane ticket).
4. He is not as visionary as you think, he hasn't actually had a single original idea in his career, go ahead and try to name one. He often states where he gets 'inspiration' for his ideas from, visionaries are the first to think of something groundbreaking and being an inspiration to others, he takes others ideas and adds a twist (Graphic style etc).
5. There were plenty of people making space games in 2011, and there have been plenty made since and more to come. All before SC will even get out of its apparent pre-alpha dev hell stage.
6. I would like to thank CR for all the laughs he's given me, without his version of a triumphant return to development I would have had no idea just how good of a public speaker I am in comparrison.

His time was in the early nineties, when he was a silent coder with a few neat idea's about things and a company willing to commit a few of them to code to make some reasonably decent games that were nothing special, but good enough for the limited mindsets and tastes of gamers way back then. These days things are much more complicated.

 

[FuriousMeow]

That's the most absurd thing - his track record is terrible for managing game development. Absolutely abysmal, and yet somehow... the culties are absolute certain he will deliver some religious experience despite every single bit (as in bit like 8 bits = a byte, and even the smallest data part of SC is awful... nerd humor hah!) of SC's current buggy awful tech demo proving otherwise.

 

[Tippis]

5. There were plenty of people making space games in 2011, and there have been plenty made since and more to come. All before SC will even get out of its apparent pre-alpha dev hell stage.

That one is really curious. One the one hand, we are asked to believe that no-one was making space games in 2012 when the funding drive started. One the other hand, we are to believe that the development time of SC is entirely normal and, indeed, that many of the games that SC could be compared against have (or had) been in development for just as long or longer — ED's development should now apparently be counted from 2001.

On the gripping hand, we are expected to somehow think that both of those are true at the same time. Somehow, in spite of games being in development just as long and in spite of them being out already or being very near release, none of them were apparently in development in 2011–2012, when Chris made it all happen.

In the parlance of our contemporary youths: u wot m8?

 

[milligna]

Or, in the immortal words of the Firesign Theatre: how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

 

[Soliluna]

But that's totally the norm in game development circa 2016. Devs go from studio to studio and teams are assembled from scratch, expanded from a small core group. It's a volatile industry, not very well paid, high turnover, with most new companies failing HARD. You're just trying to excuse CR's incompetence by grading them on a curve... while the project plummets off a cliff.

You probably shouldn't be ignoring the unbelievable records of accomplishment and genuine competence exhibited by the world class studios with stacks of bestselling games you routinely compare to an untried company with zero releases, led by someone who hasn't been in the business for ages. They simply aren't comparable. When CR ships a Witcher 3, you get to compare him to CDPR. Blizzard and Rockstar crap bigger than the Wing Commander franchise, let's face it. Nostalgic childhood memories of space kitties don't put CIG anywhere NEAR their orbits. They are not equals and no amount of "reputation management" is going to elevate CR to their levels of sales and critical success.

The CEO's of those companies could fund Star Citizen 10 times over with their personal finances, finances they have achieved through consistent excellence (in their management). The comparisons are so laughable I'm not really sure why anyone is being polite and entertaining them.

 

[FuriousMeow]

That one is really curious. One the one hand, we are asked to believe that no-one was making space games in 2012 when the funding drive started. One the other hand, we are to believe that the development time of SC is entirely normal and, indeed, that many of the games that SC could be compared against have (or had) been in development for just as long or longer — ED's development should now apparently be counted from 2001.

On the gripping hand, we are expected to somehow think that both of those are true at the same time. Somehow, in spite of games being in development just as long and in spite of them being out already or being very near release, none of them were apparently in development in 2011–2012, when Chris made it all happen.

In the parlance of our contemporary youths: u wot m8?

I've figured it out... Chris Roberts is the Alpha and the Omega, he is the beginning and the end, he knows all and sees all, he only lets us see what he wants us to see, and for those who have chosen his grace they have a vision of the prosperous bountiful lands of space legs while the rest of us... have reality.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

I've figured it out... Chris Roberts is the Alpha and the Omega, he is the beginning and the end, he knows all and sees all, he only lets us see what he wants us to see, and for those who have chosen his grace they have a vision of the prosperous bountiful lands of space legs while the rest of us... have reality.

*Ahem*

Space Noodle Lovecraftian Eldritch Horror Legs, I'll have you know... And arms too.

 

[FuriousMeow]

*Ahem*

Space Noodle Lovecraftian Eldritch Horror Legs, I'll have you know... And arms too.

Oh, please do pardon me! I completely forgot of the anatomical fidelity that can only be witnessed through his grace's vision(s). A thousand space noodle lashes across my variable length appendages while I float in space in my undies comforted only by my nipple jets.

 

[Zetta]

The thing about Chris is that he has allways been a visionary, he has that clear picture of what he wants in his head and seems to be the kind of guy that doesn't rests until he makes it happen, hence this return from a 10 year hiatus when most would have thought that Space Games were dead and buried.

Hmmm, he has some good ideas like many people but to call it visionary implies some sort of divine gift. That's not the case here at all.
If anything he's a one trick pony, every single game has basically followed the same premise of the first.

People like to claim "visionary" because it validates them putting him on a pedestal, but he's not like Jobs, Musk etc.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Well that's not entirely true, if he was really the unrelenting tyrant that some people seem to think he wouldn't have 4 studios spread across the world but just one where he could dictate as he wanted. Yes he travels a lot but he also has trusty people in key spots: His brother Erin, Tony Zurovec, Sean Tracy, Brian Chambers all seem to come across as developers completely in tune with Chris Roberts vision. The thing about Chris is that he has allways been a visionary, he has that clear picture of what he wants in his head and seems to be the kind of guy that doesn't rests until he makes it happen, hence this return from a 10 year hiatus when most would have thought that Space Games were dead and buried. Like all humans he has his flaws, but I think his virtues more than make up for it. Space genre as a lot to thank to Chris Roberts and so do gamers in general.

It really is a cult, it's like the church of Scientology. How can you hope to be objective, this hero worship is weird. Is his next project going to be world peace.[wacky]

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Chris Roberts is a visionary.

To be honest I see nothing particularly visionary game wise in SC from Roberts and CIG.
It's all very staid with the usual Sci-Fi tropes.

[sad]

Apart from nipple jets.
Genius.

 

[FuriousMeow]

It really is a cult, it's like the church of Scientology. How can you hope to be objective, this hero worship is weird. Is his next project going to be world peace.[wacky]

Spoiler

[video=youtube;1aYN5XpWzpM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aYN5XpWzpM[/video]

If it weren't for Chris Roberts, space games never would have happened! Except for all of the ones before he used another off-the-shelf engine someone else built to trigger and shortcut his way to a mediocre game that is only lauded as "great" because it was the'90s, and then all the ones that came after that were a million times more awesome with zero influence from CR or Wing Commander - not even space kittehs.