FPS is part of the core game and design. And there not being enough new gameplay mechanics being added seems only more reason to add this new one, not less.
Walking in stations/spaceships + boarding
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FPS is part of the core game and design. And there not being enough new gameplay mechanics being added seems only more reason to add this new one, not less.
Well its simple, its a matter of choice. If people don't want space legs then don't buy the season for same. As you said it a planned, core gameplay mechanic.
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Given how the game works right now, I'm pretty sure that most of season 3 will be inside the ships and stations and that the only way to die will still be the most of your main ship, which is impossible on stations.
Any first person combat gameplay will certainly be added in some kind of CQC module.
This week on galnews 99 Space gambling gone wrong... Player shoots up a bar after refusing to pay winner.... Security personnel are seen here beating the crap out of this now poor man... His ship was seized and he was sent on his way in a sidewinder thanks to -crazy willies sidewinder shipyard- "get a free ship and turn in your busted one"
Crazy Willie actually inherited the shipyard- from a billionaire tycoon who thought the sidewinder was the new anaconda boy was he wrong. Spent every last dime on those bad boys into bankruptcy. Now Willie just gives em away for the wreckages.
Next week on galnews-99 how the space towing business is booming and why is crazy Willie so crazy?
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I'm not so much into space-legs myself, as much as I would love to see populated space/planetary stations (the glass corridors are already there if you'll look close enough!!). And for this I can tell you, FRONTIER is already preparing for to implement more "moving life" into our realm. Just take a peek at this MARVELOUS technology they have already developed for PLANET COASTER when it comes to crowd handling/rendering:
[video=youtube_share;GKTkehnqGKg]https://youtu.be/GKTkehnqGKg[/video]
They're geniuses, arent they???
[video=youtube_share;GKTkehnqGKg]https://youtu.be/GKTkehnqGKg[/video]
They're geniuses, arent they???
I'm not so much into space-legs myself, as much as I would love to see populated space/planetary stations (the glass corridors are already there if you'll look close enough!!). And for this I can tell you, FRONTIER is already preparing for to implement more "moving life" into our realm. Just take a peek at this MARVELOUS technology they have already developed for PLANET COASTER when it comes to crowd handling/rendering:
https://youtu.be/GKTkehnqGKg
They're geniuses, arent they???
People seem to forget that this is not new to FD and they have a broad base to work from.
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Exactly!!!!!
It wont happen that way. When outside of SRV/ship you'll be as easy to kill as a fly. Have you noticed though every surface base is having a human-size doors somewhere? Have you noticed Sandro speaking about the majority of ground settlements are underground parts (not seen from surface)??
The new "space-legs" gameplay you're seeking will probably be taking place in diferent enviroments than the ones you're familliar with already. And when to ponder on it that way (we're talking special enviroments to walk by in, only in some areas conected to same enviroment as your ship/SRV), it doesnt sound like such a hard thing to do right?
I'm no game developer, but if I would have to plan my desig crew's resources most efficient, I'd definetly go this road. Underground pubs, bars, vast corridors inside the stations and even your own ship..., but between the cockpit of yours, there's gonna be some kind of elevator to transport you (very subtle change of map) to this new "space-legs" enviroment.
And now ponder on the fact we have at least 8 years of developement in front of us. When the atmospheric landable planets will be introduced (with life on it - much, much harder to develop imho than "space-legs" corridors!!!) and they will happen for 100% at some point, how else FRONTIER would enrich it's baby further, like not with such a 1st person players' experience, eh?
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and do it in an engine and framework they've developed themselves and know inside-out. As opposed to say getting an off-the-shelf engine and try to get it to do something it was never designed for, have no clue as to what most of the source code actually do and how it integrates with other modules. Which means a lot of extra fat and padding to make it all work, which in turns lead to an order of magnitude extra complexity and potential for bugs and sub-optimal performance.
Well from the aspect of Zero G mechanics a Cmdr would be subject to the same physics that affects other free floating objects like debris,cargo and space rocks which are already in game. Space suit thrusters would be governed by the same mechanics as our ships maybe even with a version of FA off etc. Walking/fps in 1G has been done in previous games with an earlier iteration of the Cobra engine, crowd simulation mechanics including AI awareness and obstacle avoidance can be seen working in Planet Coaster. Thats a lot of work already in the bag and a very good foundation for space legs and populated spaces.
Being an original Elite player, and later Frontier / First Encounters. I discussed with friends what they would like to see in a future Elite sequel. Pretty much everyone said the same thing. It would be amazing if you could fly down onto planets. And the 2nd idea that always popped up, was being able to walk around your ship, and by extension the space stations. At that time, that all seemed pretty crazily ambitious. It still does now...
Now, both of those are BIG BIG changes / enhancements to the game.
The first, would be atmospheric planets, with, you would say all that is bundled in with that concept, life, fauna, fauna, weather, seas, oceans, clouds, towns, cities etc. That's an immense expansion. Think about it, we are talking about multiple procedural planets, like the Earth, and many many more that are alien in nature. I'm certainly not expecting that to appear this year. And indeed, it may take a few years to phase in all the work needed to do justice to it. Also bear in mind that No Mans Sky has just raised the bar in this regard. Not in that they executed so well, but rather they have shown that cobbling together some body parts to make various wacky animals, does not make a realistic eco-system. And the same goes with planet make-up. And simulating the full range of planets, that could be possible, is mind boggling, and very hard to do well. Think about all the city types, the rural areas, villages, industrial complexes. Well, its nuts....
Now, walking around. This I think is slightly contentious, as Elite was never a game about walking. It was a game about flying a spaceship. BUT, I have to say, its a compelling idea. The ability to not only visit anywhere, but to also then get out of your ship, and explore, is very compelling, at least to me. But again, it expands the scope of the game so massively, its hard to imagine Frontier handling it all. I don't mean that as an insult, its just so VAST to consider. How far do you take this. You've have to assume ALL ships could be moved around within. And then there are stations, that in its own is a huge amount of work. And then do you expand it to also cover planet buildings? Spaceports on the surface of planets. Etc etc etc...
How would this extra scope be handled, as a series of arena's for FPS, or would more of an RPG make sense. And if you could RPG, what would that mean for you as a pilot?
Lets be realistic about this. Games like WOW did not achieve anything near this scope. And from what I could see, WOW was a cash cow for many years for Blizzard. Putting all of this into practice in ED will cost a huge amount of £££ to do well. I'm not sure how well Frontier is going from ED. But my guess is, that level of £££ is not there right now. So Frontier are aiming ahead, and delivering on elements that make sense in terms of game-play. And I think they are doing well, all in all, in this regard.
I guess whats a little concerting is, with all that scope, Frontier would run a massive risk maybe of producing what is, in effect, an engine demo, at least when its first released. Think about it, Horizons delivered on Planetary Landings, but to date, its still actually quite think on solid gameplay on planet surfaces. Also the amount of hand crafted variety is pretty thin right now. There are no roaming NPC vehicles, no large open cast mines, no roads leading from one base to another, no vehicles travelling those roads, no gas extraction facilities, no vulcanism (soon?) and so on.
And I dont think its for a want of work. Frontier are obviously working furiously away to fill in these gaps. But money and human resources are finite I would say.
So, are YOU, and indeed are WE willing to support Frontier with £££ to keep the fires burning, so that all of this scope can come into play. I certainly hope so.
Now, both of those are BIG BIG changes / enhancements to the game.
The first, would be atmospheric planets, with, you would say all that is bundled in with that concept, life, fauna, fauna, weather, seas, oceans, clouds, towns, cities etc. That's an immense expansion. Think about it, we are talking about multiple procedural planets, like the Earth, and many many more that are alien in nature. I'm certainly not expecting that to appear this year. And indeed, it may take a few years to phase in all the work needed to do justice to it. Also bear in mind that No Mans Sky has just raised the bar in this regard. Not in that they executed so well, but rather they have shown that cobbling together some body parts to make various wacky animals, does not make a realistic eco-system. And the same goes with planet make-up. And simulating the full range of planets, that could be possible, is mind boggling, and very hard to do well. Think about all the city types, the rural areas, villages, industrial complexes. Well, its nuts....
Now, walking around. This I think is slightly contentious, as Elite was never a game about walking. It was a game about flying a spaceship. BUT, I have to say, its a compelling idea. The ability to not only visit anywhere, but to also then get out of your ship, and explore, is very compelling, at least to me. But again, it expands the scope of the game so massively, its hard to imagine Frontier handling it all. I don't mean that as an insult, its just so VAST to consider. How far do you take this. You've have to assume ALL ships could be moved around within. And then there are stations, that in its own is a huge amount of work. And then do you expand it to also cover planet buildings? Spaceports on the surface of planets. Etc etc etc...
How would this extra scope be handled, as a series of arena's for FPS, or would more of an RPG make sense. And if you could RPG, what would that mean for you as a pilot?
Lets be realistic about this. Games like WOW did not achieve anything near this scope. And from what I could see, WOW was a cash cow for many years for Blizzard. Putting all of this into practice in ED will cost a huge amount of £££ to do well. I'm not sure how well Frontier is going from ED. But my guess is, that level of £££ is not there right now. So Frontier are aiming ahead, and delivering on elements that make sense in terms of game-play. And I think they are doing well, all in all, in this regard.
I guess whats a little concerting is, with all that scope, Frontier would run a massive risk maybe of producing what is, in effect, an engine demo, at least when its first released. Think about it, Horizons delivered on Planetary Landings, but to date, its still actually quite think on solid gameplay on planet surfaces. Also the amount of hand crafted variety is pretty thin right now. There are no roaming NPC vehicles, no large open cast mines, no roads leading from one base to another, no vehicles travelling those roads, no gas extraction facilities, no vulcanism (soon?) and so on.
And I dont think its for a want of work. Frontier are obviously working furiously away to fill in these gaps. But money and human resources are finite I would say.
So, are YOU, and indeed are WE willing to support Frontier with £££ to keep the fires burning, so that all of this scope can come into play. I certainly hope so.
So don't finish what there is... Leave it as a place holder... And move on...?
Not ideal IMHO.
Each feature should build on the depth provided by the previous gameplay... Not serve as a distraction. Well, yes, there's nothing more involved or interesting to do in space, so come and run around a space station... We'll figure out what you can do there later...
Consider we can't even do the most basic convoy type missions in space yet, and here we have talking of walking in space station, liaising with NPCs, and somehow having interesting and complex gameplay in these situations. If we can't even get involved mechanics in space, why should it be any different in an even more complex FP environment?
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Argh much objectionable - please don't tell me to relax after you make a load of suppositions about what bothers me, to then add in a supposition about how stressed I am about it doesn't put you in good stead.
The optional nature is a lot of my concern - even in the "hey exciting look wreck oh no it's a trap pew pew" mission there's not much variety available in that and the added thrill of moving much more slowly through space by foot will pass quickly. It's a huge amount of work for something that will be rapidly skipped unless a VAST amount of work goes into it
Look at the dreaming going on already.
Oh and doesn't matter who's piloting your ship - if you're shot at by something capable of smashing through a ships hull when you're out there in your Remlock it's not gonna be pretty. It's not pretty facing down a ship from an SRV.
I'm sure it'll come eventually, but I just hope it's a long time - so many better features that add more with less dev effort first - and after the NMS mess there'll be no effort spared with any life generation I reckon
Ship interiors are worked on as part of the creation of a new ship type so these interiors are already done to an extent, obviously final polishing would be needed before release. The rest is doable and not beyond FD abilities if done a section at a time in a managed way.
Honestly, I'm pretty curious how gravity and inertia will work when walking inside ships.
Will the interior of ships be zero-G? Will we have mag-boots? Will they act like actual magnets, or will they behave like artificial gravity while being "mag-boots" in name only? What happens if I boost or pull a high-G turn while someone is standing (or floating) in another part of the ship?
Will the interior of ships be zero-G? Will we have mag-boots? Will they act like actual magnets, or will they behave like artificial gravity while being "mag-boots" in name only? What happens if I boost or pull a high-G turn while someone is standing (or floating) in another part of the ship?
YES!!!!! I feel literally ashamed by the fact I only paid FRONTIER so little (for the base game, plus the Horizons, plus few skins from their www store) for almost two years of my amazing evenings/nights few times a week/month.
It's just the price per my hour of fun time is so silly small, I'd throw much more money at them if they'll give me a chance to do so!!! Stupid cigaret which is giving me around 8 minutes of joy (quiting it just now btw
) is far more pricey than my beloved hobby - adventuring in Elite Dangerous realm... I`d imagine the average hours played by Cmdr`s is pretty high, that has to say something about the game.
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It would make sense to release space legs first, and *then* atmo planets. For the sake of immersion, mastering the use of player and NPC people is a crucial prerequisite if you want believable, populated words to land on!
My prediction is that if Space Legs is season 3, they would roll it out in space-leggy increments, such as:
Season 3: Elite Dangerous: One Small Step
3.1 Station Tours
Walk around in the stations, saying hello to different NPCs and unlocking special missions and equipment.
3.2 Pirates and Marines
FPS mechanics. Board and steal someone else's ship, at the cost of it being legally uninsurable! Civil wars can now happen within stations, as you take part in the battle to assume control of a station of surface installation.
3.3
Close Encounters
Meet and fight against alien NPCs.
My prediction is that if Space Legs is season 3, they would roll it out in space-leggy increments, such as:
Season 3: Elite Dangerous: One Small Step
3.1 Station Tours
Walk around in the stations, saying hello to different NPCs and unlocking special missions and equipment.
3.2 Pirates and Marines
FPS mechanics. Board and steal someone else's ship, at the cost of it being legally uninsurable! Civil wars can now happen within stations, as you take part in the battle to assume control of a station of surface installation.
3.3
Close Encounters
Meet and fight against alien NPCs.
You're talking huge amount of development here mate. Be realistic. As someone before in this thread said: it would be literally totally new gameplay to develop, a scope of work which many of successfull 1st person shooters were unable carry out. Isn't SRV gameplay really not cool enough for exploring planets?? What is so fun in NMS-alike walking, walking, walking and shooting stuff anyways??? Dull.
Certainly it would be a huge amount of development! But isn't that the entire point of releasing the game in seasons to begin with? The greater vision for Elite was that it be more than *just* a slace sim, or *just* a FPS, or *just* an exploration quest.
And to answer your question about "whats so fun about... walking and shooting stuff anyways?"
Answer: EVERYTHING. The fact is, FDev has a long term plan to include space legs. The stations are designed with person-sized doors and railings, and I think that immersion will (for those of us who enjoy that sort of thing) improve dramatically.