The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Esvandiary]

For the Customer the Importand Information is.
Where is that Damn Socket.
Which Switch does he need to Pull Up so it works.
And where in the Damn Wall he should not Drill Holes

He doesnt need to know that L1 is an Solid PVC Isolated line running through an Hard Plastic Tunnel with Metal Edges in the Wall Breaks to cross Rooms. Going from S1 through S4 on the First Connector using an TNTS System for PE and N Lines to get this Socket Working while being Secured with FI Switch and Limited to 16A

I... what?

The "where is that damn socket" and "which switch" is exactly what I'm saying CIG should be releasing.
Not specifics of "oh we've made these modifications to CryEngine" or "local physics grids" (which sort-of ironically is what they have been releasing), but "how/where/with what do you mine", "what is involved in exploration", "how do medics/healing work", what features are these gameplay mechanics actually going to include.

Unless you're telling me that Star Citizen backers don't (and shouldn't) want to know what they'll be able to do in the game once it's finished...?

 

[Tippis]

Fair enough, however then it's a con? really doesn't make it better than incompetent.

Depends on your outlook, I guess.
A $120M con is far more impressive than an incompetent mismanagement of the same amount, after all

 

[Monk]

That is pretty much what RSI executives want everyone believing in the end. That is much better than been called deceivers that just profited from a project, completely based on lies and deception, that they knew was doomed to be unsustainable and unable to compete with the market in the very earlier days, and just decided to keep it alive for as long as they can and there are people buying dreams.

I'm not buying the dream anymore...no way I can condone giving them more money based on the results, so far.

There is definitely an amount of...'massaging' the truth going on, in hopes of keeping sales up. I can't quite fault them entirely for doing that...as shady as it seems. To me, it just seems like they are gasping for air.

 

[AJW]

So, to sum up the thread so far, CIG are going to deliver a game (or is it three?) with unspecified features, at an unspecified date. And it is going to be the best game ever. Because Chris Roberts says so.

Buy an Idris.

 

[Hi-Ban]

No. I'm insulted because you keep insulting me. Once again, you refuse to read what's actually being said and by whom, and instead use your ignorant assumptions as a fallacious basis for trying to put words in my mouth, thus attempting to avoid answering the actual question.

When I say that you lie and that you rely almost entirely on strawman arguments, it's not an insult — it's a statement of well-established fact.

Now. Once again: could you please try to answer the question?

Keep insulting me, go on. I haven't insulted you and i got my posts to prove it, whatever your assumptions are.

 

[Monk]

Would you two just drop it already? You've insulted each other...good job, round of a applause, everybody in tears it is so beautiful, you get 'em, I must thank my family and my friends and my lawyer...thank you thank thank you

 

[Tippis]

I haven't insulted you and i got my posts to prove it.

Maybe you should go back and read what you've actually written, hmm…? Oh, and if you're insulted by your own use of strawman arguments and lies about what people have said, then perhaps you should stop doing that too — then the problem would solve itself.

Oh, and you should probably try to answer the question too, while you're at it.

Would you two just drop it already? You've insulted each other...good job, round of a applause, everybody in tears it is so beautiful, you get 'em, I must thank my family and my friends and my lawyer...thank you thank thank you

Pff. You never thank the lawyer.

 

[jcrg99]

Fair enough, however then it's a con? really doesn't make it better than incompetent.

Sure it is. But incompetent is something that they have been called for decades (by people who worked with them in the past specially and are not used to stay in the game industry by using means of deception, so will defend them because have ties or use of similar approach in their own business or have simply financial reasons/credibility reasons do not damage their own business to do not "attack" them... or by publishers in general), so, they really don't care with the fame when that means millions of dollars in their pockets in an career that has been in the end, coming from a decade of failed ventures (but all profitable), for what was supposed to be just a few thousands of profit, when they started all this.

 

[Sunleader]

Fair enough, however then it's a con? really doesn't make it better than incompetent.

Unlikely.
Given latest Prototypes Showcased on the Gamescom.
This is far away from what you would Produce as an Scam.

When was the last time that you Traveled between 2 Stations and to a Planet in ED without hitting a Loading a Break or Instance Switch.


To begin with I disagree with his Explanation. Because it Forgets an very Importand Factor.
Generally Dev Teams tend to overdraw their Time Limits. Thats normal.
And usually the Publishers and Investors are Pushing the Game out regardless and thus Set an Deadline at which the Game needs to be Delivered.

But the Investors for SC is in Large Parts Crowdfunding. Which means they got no Investors in their Back to Drive them to an Deadline Release.
There is also no real Competition yet which would Force em to Release Fast.


So their only Dead Line currently. Is how long they can keep People Interested in the Game so they still Show up on Release.
Which means they will Pay alot of Effort to Keep People Entertained with Demos like on Gamescom. But will likely Push Hard on the Deadline to be Extended until the Devs got all the Features They want.



Because something most People Forget.
Game Developers often Love their Game like Hell. And they are often the People who want to Include the most Features and Stuff.
Far more than what most Users wish for.
In this case the Missing Pressure from behind is causing an very Development Time.

Now wether this will result in a More Finished Game than we are used to Nowdays.
Or if it ultimately just ends up as an Ineffective Delay of the Release. Is another Question.
But we will See

 

[Tippis]

Sure it is. But incompetent is something that they have been called since forever (by people who worked with them in the past specially and are not used to stay in the game industry by using means of deception... or by publishers in general), so, they really don't care with the fame when that means millions of dollars in their pockets, for what was supposed to be just a few thousands of profit, when they started all this.

Maybe the main issue lies with trying to treat CIG as a monolithic entity, when it's a collection of executives with very different motivations and areas of expertise. Chris' history of misadventure and mismanagement is fairly well established, but throughout all of that, it also comes off as him being his own high priest: no-one believes in the greatness of Chris quite as much as Chris. But does that apply to everyone or are there others who's in it just to ride it as far as it will go?

 

[Monk]

Pff. You never thank the lawyer.

Damn, you're right...though, I have a 'clean' record thanks to my lawyer ;P

That boat of his is really nice though...I should get to take the helm of it sometime

 

[jcrg99]

So, to sum up the thread so far, CIG are going to deliver a game (or is it three?) with unspecified features, at an unspecified date. And it is going to be the best game ever. Because Chris Roberts says so.

Buy an Idris.

Well... If Roberts claimed that Squadron 42 was the "game-as-promised" as he recently tried to claim (he has no shame of lying anymore because trust that media and people forget or do not bother to investigate the things as they actually happened along the road), we can infer that the MVP will be the Squadron 42 release, plus, whatever else be out, outside from that.

Buy an Idris... for what? This game never will support capital ship battles, C&C, fighter squadrons, all together, in any meaningful/interesting/working way, in a Persistent Universe for millions to play, with 10x more fidelity than any other AAA game out there (no more, no less of what was promised, or at least, was obviously implicit, right?), to justify someone spending 1000 dollars or more in such ship (well... to be fair, even if the game offered all the features, still wouldn't be worthy of such ticket price). The funny part is that they put a lot of effort on building "org" support, for a game where org gameplay will be meaningless. No epic battles, org vs. org will ever happen. Of course, the real purpose is just to have more people tied to the project, promoting the ship sales.

Anyway... buy an Idris.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Went back, read my posts, no insults. So your argument is invalid. Yet you still calling me a liar.

As Monk said above, stop it. BOTH of you.

Tippis, stop trying to get a straight answer out of a guy who clearly isn't here for any honest discussion about anything to do with Star Citizen, unless it's discussing whatever new ship CIG want to sell this month, or how they already have VR in the game and it will be better implemented in SC than any other game on market now and in the future. Effort posting a boring brickwall is, well, *boring*

Ban, you are a cowardly, spineless and totally dishonest poster. Also one who likes to layer his comments in very whiny, passive aggressive language in an effort to get a rise out of the person you're replying to, whilst refusing to answer and questions posed to you at all, or with flat out falsehoods.

It's a truly pathetic tactic, utterly unworthy of featuring on ANY online message board.

 

[Ian Phillips]

OK. I have asked twice for this to be dropped and the thread to be used for its proper purpose, but have been ignored.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I disagree. Roberts and others involved ARE experienced enough and know (already proven in their career) that, if interested, if having the need or good reasons for that, they are able to deliver a project effectively in a timely manner (Wing Commander 4 development was a major example of that).

What people always fail to see, apparently, is that in the Star Citizen case, there is no interest to advance to what should be called a "released" product. It goes against the financial needs that they targeted to this venture and they envision that are possible to get. They know, that are doing something unsustainable in the long term and not capable to compete/stay alive in the game industry market. So, they are focusing on keeping the dream, instead delivering more that will make people realize that what is done/delivered is not so great or groundbreaking or fun as they imagined.

So, they are, in purpose, making it take longer and longer, by using means, strategies, approaches, that a experienced PM, which is also very experienced in one or two Hollywood tricks to deceive investors or actors and keep them believing, of course, is totally capable to do.

Roberts is not this dumb that people are imagining. As well as all those other main executives profiting a lot from this venture. People, from fans to even non-believers, media, etc., are been extremely naive when they look to this whole mess (no offense intended), or some, know what is really happening here, but are too afraid to say in public because reasons.

Chris wasn't lead dev on WC4, he directed the cinematics. WC4 went well exactly because CR was NOT calling the shots.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Well... If Roberts claimed that Squadron 42 was the "game-as-promised" as he recently tried to claim (he has no shame of lying anymore because trust that media and people forget or do not bother to investigate the things as they actually happened along the road), we can infer that the MVP will be the Squadron 42 release, plus, whatever else be out, outside from that.

Buy an Idris... for what? This game never will support capital ship battles, C&C, fighter squadrons, all together, in any meaningful/interesting/working way, in a Persistent Universe for millions to play, with 10x more fidelity than any other AAA game out there (no more, no less of what was promised, or at least, was obviously implicit, right?), to justify someone spending 1000 dollars or more in such ship (well... to be fair, even if the game offered all the features, still wouldn't be worthy of such ticket price). The funny part is that they put a lot of effort on building "org" support, for a game where org gameplay will be meaningless. No epic battles, org vs. org will ever happen. Of course, the real purpose is just to have more people tied to the project, promoting the ship sales.

Anyway... buy an Idris.

Jcrg, lets not make any wild leaps into pure speculation shall we?

Chris Roberts is many things, but to call him an outright LIAR is pushing the boundaries of criticism.

Lets see what the next few months show us, what with Citcon just on the horizon, before making such sweeping judgements ok?

 

[Monk]

Likely a three strike rule, y'all. Don't poke the bear!

So, Kiosks...how important to the game are these?

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

OK. I have asked twice for this to be dropped and the thread to be used for its proper purpose, but have been ignored.

Hey, we've been trying to get them to stop bickering as well Mr Mod-Person-Sir, honest guv'ner!

 

[Sunleader]

I... what?

The "where is that damn socket" and "which switch" is exactly what I'm saying CIG should be releasing.
Not specifics of "oh we've made these modifications to CryEngine" or "local physics grids" (which sort-of ironically is what they have been releasing), but "how/where/with what do you mine", "what is involved in exploration", "how do medics/healing work", what features are these gameplay mechanics actually going to include.

Unless you're telling me that Star Citizen backers don't (and shouldn't) want to know what they'll be able to do in the game once it's finished...?

According to the Interviews.
The Minimum Viable Product. They are going to Release.
Is the Base Game without the Later Added Stretch Goals.

Which in absolute Worst case of Interpretion. Would mean that upon Release. Only the Features Promised to the 6 Million Dollar Mark. Are going to be Finalized.


-Which means an Certain List of Ships. (Well most of these are already around and mostly Finished)

-100 Systems in the Persistent Universe. Including Space Stations that you can Walk around in First Person. (This is likely the Biggest Challenge. And if they really Limit it to MVP this will likely be the Biggest Piece of Work. Given the Size of each System. I assume that this is going to be Cut down to around 20 Systems if they really want to get the Game out Fast)

-Space and Boarding Combat in First Person. (Most of the Mechanics for this are Available already as well. And apparently Alpha 3.0 will Finish this for most Part.)

-Interactive Quests and Missions in the Persistent Universe. (Well this is being Showcased in Alpha 3.0 As well. But this is the Second Big Piece of Work they are going to be needing if they want to do this for 20-100 Systems in a Persistent Universe each Containing at least 1 Station with NPCs etc )





To make an better Explanation that might be easier to Understand for the Layman.

If Star Citizen goes for the Minimal Product.
This will mean that the Alpha 3.0 Gameplay will be Pretty much what you get Delivered as Release Gameplay. Except some Minor additional Polishing and Bugfixing.
Thus the Big Changes between the Alpha and Release. Not being more Features. But instead they will Start working on Building the Universe to Play in.
So the Release will likely look like the Alpha 3.0 but instead of 1 System with a Few Stations and a Planet. You will have around 20-30 Systems with Stations and Planets.


This would currently be the absolute Minium Viable Product. Given that the Stuff they Showcased is already Developed to the Point of being Demonstrated like this.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Likely a three strike rule, y'all. Don't poke the bear!

So, Kiosks...how important to the game are these?

Depends where the kiosks are... I mean, just WHY would a shopping kiosk be something that a PIRATE would want in their hideout anyway? Shouldn't they, I don't know, *steal* their required clothing from peaceful commandos during the surely epic, 1000 player, capital ship to capital ship raids and skirmishes that Roberts imagines will be commonplace in "the Verse"?

Heck, shouldn't pirating a cargo ship which has clothing cargo aboard be sufficient for such a thing?