The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Monk]

I'm actually here because the echo chambers pretty regularly eject criticism and difficult questions.

1. Is there not a problem with CR claiming MVP?
2. Netcode is the biggest issue right now, do you reasonably expect, given CIG/RSI's up and down track record of delivering on their promises, that it will be fixed in 3.0?
3. What is the explanation for years of promised dates followed by delay, followed by new dates that are then followed by further delay?

 

[Shinimas]

Or as a example ED was by definition a MVP. Shocking for some people including myself, at that time. But ED did go a long way.

MVP for SC is not defined..and wasnt planned in the beginning. They wanted to deliver "everything" at their release, icludign 100 systems or so if i remember correctly.

What would happen if Alpha 3.0...is MVP 1.0 that would be a hard crash.

They might as well release the game now, and relocate the development budget to the legal department. As crazy as some of the SC fanbase is, most are under the delusion it will become the godsent game one day. If they receive a barely working mess, they will get pretty        and ask for refunds.

 

[GordFreeman]

What does full scale development mean?

Is that, all core features are being worked on? Or does it mean they are staffed and ready to hit the pavement?

It means that they have hired the majority of the positions they need to get meaningful work on the game done. It means that they are in offices that can support that many people.

 

[Monk]

It means that they have hired the majority of the positions they need to get meaningful work on the game done. It means that they are in offices that can support that many people.

I agree with this assessment. Hopefully we can start seeing the fruits of full scale commitment in the next releases.

 

[Stigbob]

Or as a example ED was by definition a MVP. Shocking for some people including myself, at that time. But ED did go a long way.

MVP for SC is not defined..and wasnt planned in the beginning. They wanted to deliver "everything" at their release, icludign 100 systems or so if i remember correctly.

What would happen if Alpha 3.0...is MVP 1.0 that would be a hard crash.

I never understood the hype with ED I don't know where people got their idea's from, EVE in a cockpit in particular (owning and controlling territory) was a very popular theory prior to release although it went exactly against what FD had repeatedly said. I was expecting (and got) a remake of 1984 with modern graphics and sound. Everything else is a bonus.

With ED I'd say that the pre gamma stages with a (comparably) small number of systems was the MVP stage. You can't really call a 1.1 scale galaxy minimum anything.

ED's MVP was much larger than SC's dream feature complete never to be delivered bonsai galaxy though.

 

[ianw]

So.... then according to you..... your assessment of SC being 5 years into development is false.....

No - it's based on CR's comment about when development started on Star Citizen from his actual mouth (recorded for posterity in pixel form and carefully guarded by the elders of the internet) about how long it's been in development - a comment that's been quoted in this thread many times.

 

[GordFreeman]

I'm actually here because the echo chambers pretty regularly eject criticism and difficult questions.

How many people actually come here that are willing to talk reasonably without an incredibly large bias against the project? The only person would be Ben Parry if you're honest with yourself. This IS an echo chamber.

 

[Maruun]

They might as well release the game now, and relocate the development budget to the legal department. As crazy as some of the SC fanbase is, most are under the delusion it will become the godsent game one day. If they receive a barely working mess, they will get pretty        and ask for refunds.

I doubt it, CR just has to show a fancy video at citizencon and they will throw money anyway at him, he already has his littel fanatic loyalist that will ignore anything not pro-SC.

He just has to claim "Guys, i know you want this game right! We all want! But the hardest part is done and it only took us 120 million dollars to reach this goal! But there is more! Much more, if we belief in it strong enough and not stray from our path we will reach that goal! Until then this is the prelude to great things to come!"

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How many people actually come here that are willing to talk reasonably without an incredibly large bias against the project? The only person would be Ben Parry if you're honest with yourself. This IS an echo chamber.

Yes and you avoid AGAIN questions from several people that want some answeres and discuss stuff that is in the clouds on a reasonable level.

 

[ianw]

How many people actually come here that are willing to talk reasonably without an incredibly large bias against the project? The only person would be Ben Parry if you're honest with yourself. This IS an echo chamber.

Sorry Gordo old bean but you can't really count Ben Parry as he works for the project and if he has any sense - which I've no doubt he is abundantly blessed with - he would be very biased in favour of.

 

[McGlashan]

I wonder what excuses the fans will have for 3.0 not working when/if it finally hits.

"4.0 will fix everything"

 

[FuriousMeow]

Oh, of course it's a bias when to date every single CR proposed date has been missed, all goals and milestones missed, just a shoddy client dumped out that is "better than AAA games" according to those people you believe are so "reasonable" over at the nut factory.

It's an echo chamber because we are just echoing all of the faults, failures and missed everything CR/CIG/RSI/SC has done.

 

[Mu77ley]

How many people actually come here that are willing to talk reasonably without an incredibly large bias against the project? The only person would be Ben Parry if you're honest with yourself. This IS an echo chamber.

I'm sorry but, with all due respect to Ben, you cannot possibly think that an employee of the company, who has no doubt signed NDAs up the wazoo to not talk about certain things and risks losing their job if they speak out of line, can be even remotely impartial?!?!

 

[Monk]

I never understood the hype with ED I don't know where people got their idea's from, EVE in a cockpit in particular (owning and controlling territory) was a very popular theory prior to release although it went exactly against what FD had repeatedly said. I was expecting (and got) a remake of 1984 with modern graphics and sound. Everything else is a bonus.

With ED I'd say that the pre gamma stages with a (comparably) small number of systems was the MVP stage. You can't really call a 1.1 scale galaxy minimum anything.

ED's MVP was much larger than SC's dream feature complete never to be delivered bonsai galaxy though.

A lot of the hype had to do with familiarity with EVE over the Elite series. Personally, I had no idea what Elite was until I stumbled upon it looking for a replacement for Freelancer (was never much of a fan of EVE).

As for the MVP, this is absolutely right. I think Premium Beta really represented the MVP of Elite...just a few systems, but the core mechanics existed. Each iteration has enhanced or added on to that core. This is what it means to have a MVP in the first place....which goes against the philosophy espoused by CIG/RSI even just last year.

 

[GordFreeman]

I agree with this assessment. Hopefully we can start seeing the fruits of full scale commitment in the next releases.

Which is precisely why I discount any comments stating that the game has been in development for 5 years. Technically it is true, but those comments ignore a huge aspect of this project, and those comments show an unfortunate unwillingness to come away from their bias.

 

[Monk]

How many people actually come here that are willing to talk reasonably without an incredibly large bias against the project? The only person would be Ben Parry if you're honest with yourself. This IS an echo chamber.

I don't disagree with this being an echo chamber. But at least everything you and I say remain on equal footing thanks to two things. Bulletin Boards don't have downvoting and the mods are fair (as much as they can be) in the moderation actions.

 

[GordFreeman]

I'm sorry but, with all due respect to Ben, you cannot possibly think that an employee of the company, who has no doubt signed NDAs up the wazoo to not talk about certain things and risks losing their job if they speak out of line, can be even remotely impartial?!?!

I've read enough of his comments here to believe he is. He never overhyped the project or what he was working on. Anyone else who is actually trying to be objective has left, and the few 'SC defenders' that show up often jump off the deep end trying to defend SC at all cost.

 

[FuriousMeow]

That's absolute nonsense, you do not get to decide when development starts based on ongoing staff changes or build ups. So what? If he fired everyone and got a whole new team the development timeline restarts? No, it began before the kickstarter. It doesn't matter if he threw away all assets, or everything was restarted - that is still development time to the project. CR doesn't get a special pass on this. That shows heavy bias on your behalf to excuse away his mismanagement.

 

[GordFreeman]

Yes and you avoid AGAIN questions from several people that want some answeres and discuss stuff that is in the clouds on a reasonable level.

I do not need to discuss what the mob wants me to discuss. I have no opinion on the MVP.

 

[Monk]

I've read enough of his comments here to believe he is. He never overhyped the project or what he was working on. Anyone else who is actually trying to be objective has left, and the few 'SC defenders' that show up often jump off the deep end trying to defend SC at all cost.

Ben's a decent dude...can't say the same for myself

However, I think the SC defenders have left the thread...not because they have been ejected due to moderation or down-voting, rather, they run out of counters. Because the fact remains there are major issues with some of the things coming out of CIG/RSI that can only be addressed in time.

People get bored and start trolling the project...but that is just that, trolling. Don't feed it, let the vent happen. It hurts the project exactly 0%.

When we have new stuff to discuss...that is when it gets good...and I'm sure you will see some of our favorites return.

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I do not need to discuss what the mob wants me to discuss. I have no opinion on the MVP.

Fair enough, I'll leave those questions for another.

 

[GordFreeman]

That's absolute nonsense, you do not get to decide when development starts based on ongoing staff changes or build ups. So what? If he fired everyone and got a whole new team the development timeline restarts? No, it began before the kickstarter. It doesn't matter if he threw away all assets, or everything was restarted - that is still development time to the project. CR doesn't get a special pass on this. That shows heavy bias on your behalf to excuse away his mismanagement.

Calling building up a company from scratch 'mismanagement' is rubbish.