The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Well, do you want to talk about SC or not? Isn't that the purpose of the thread? When Monk actively tries to talk to you earnestly, you just throw it back in his face?

That's what he does mate. He is so blinded by our apparent hatred of SC he can't have a discussion...yet he keeps coming back again and again after his ban.

I wonder why that is...why is that Mr Gord?
 

dsmart

Banned
The rubes.. whales... enthusiastic backers are eventually going to run out of money to keep throwing at CR for SC. That is when the MVP will inevitably drop. He keeps diverting resources to developing strung together demos that either came from the dev studio/not-in-engine, a brief view of something "revolutionary" like the no head bob that is maybe in engine, or a combination of the two that has some clear areas of pre-scripted and pre-rendered recordings that are played in between some elements of in-game with faux-AI thrown in to bring in whatever money he can at/after conventions. This well will dry up sooner than later if the client side keeps at the miserable pace of released features. He got $124 million to build a game, not as profits to use for anything else - they are supposed to be solely going to game development. $124 million would be enough for many good game developers to produce a very good game and in 3 to 4 years with many of the features CR promised. Unfortunately CR is not a good game developer, so many dev hours have been literally thrown away that years of dev time have been lost. Literally years. All the work prior to the kickstarter, during the kickstarter, and up through 2014 if not early 2015 was tossed out or "refactored" (same difference) which is why for over half a year the Hangar Module was all there was. Literally just a static indoor environment with a static ship. Wow.

So finally some development begins, with lots of stuff dropped (Hangar Module with friends, Star Marine) and others delayed indefinitely (Persistent Universe and 2016 SC release, all jobs, all features except the 2 current missions) and just recently only has a second base been released. Supposedly once the engine was done, everything was going to come together quickly. That didn't happen. Supposedly after development pipelines churned out there first few pieces, development would be efficient and monthly updates would occur. Not happening.

Now at best this $124 million has churned out - in 4 years - 2 bases, 2 missions, half a dozen flyable ships that just do combat, a limited space area, and no real jobs or other in-game "professions" and CR is now proclaiming that for development to continue he needs even more money. $124 million got only to what is available on the client today, and he is already claiming he needs more money for development to keep going.

That's a pretty good idea of what the MVP is if funding were to slow to a trickle soon.

Stop spreading FUD. It's all coming together nicely; and the upcoming 3.0 Jesus Patch will pave the way forward. You'll see.

ps: Development is so open, that not only do backers not know what is in the MVP, they have no clue what's in upcoming patches, nor when either product is actually getting released. Take that!
 
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At this point i am not even suprised or disappointed...how can i be disappointed, when exactly what i expected happend to a degree...?

To be honest I think that I am actually more optimistic now....removal of head-bobbing and some possible future changes in FM are promising and game will maybe become FUN to play to a degree.....Well if they don´t delayed into the oblivion....
 
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dsmart

Banned
Theory-crafting warning

I don't think he was supposed to say MVP, I think he was advised to rein in scope-creep and nudge backers in the direction of more realistic expectations and not promise any mad new stuff. But in a Freudian slip he blurted out the one thing he really wasn't supposed to say to backers, which was on his mind as it's what they've resigned themselves to achieving.

If only you knew just how right you are.

ps: At least three of my sources said they have no clue what he was going on about; and they were taken aback by that statement, and which ended up being the source of many internal "discussions". I actually posted about in one of my forum comments.
 
Pretty much all Wikipedia articles about games will have a development time mentioned that's referencing some interview with a developer at some point. There is absolutely no correlation and it's completely ambiguous. Some will say development began when they started hiring developers, working on the initial concept or first had an idea in the shower. Others might say development started after they threw away four prototype builds and hired a new team. Those comparison graphs people keep posting to prove whatever about SC are silly.
 
I just cannot wait for citizenCON in Oct. I will be quivering in anticipation as i watch a demo of a man pick up a box and drop it any where he stands.

When they show the real gameplay of space marine showing how when you cap a bottle it scatters about. The demo shown at gamesCON or the entire 5 days of streaming will count for nought. That janky alpha gameplay will be superseded in one patch with magnificence that is a video showing the latest progress of the best god damn space sim ever.
 
So you see Star Citizen's scope not as its main strength but as a weakness then?

Do you think that, by trying to encompass many different genres they might not be able to complete them in enough detail before they run out of money (given that we have no way on knowing how much they have left)?

Do you feel the mismatch of the dream of SC vs. the undefined MVP isnt as big an issue because you feel the game is less likely to come out in the first place?

I feel the whole project is on crazy pills. But yeah as you describe it is pretty much the situation.
 
To be honest I think that I am actually more optimistic now....removal of head-bobbing and some possible future changes in FM are promising and game will maybe become FUN to play to a degree.....Well if they don´t delayed into the oblivion....

Well the FM can only go two ways, ala elite or a polished version of what they got. Either way it better be good because right now it's dog poo.
 
That reminds me - I'd better buy another Idris just in case my cat wants to join my Org!

Don't be silly, you don't need an extra ship for your cat - they can just jump in multi-crew and manage the shields, or be a turret gunner, or walk around serving pastries!

OR, get the little kitty a mining ship to get you materials so you can make better munitions, or make loads of UEC so you can buy all kinds of missiles that can be set in varying salvos, or the little floofball can be an explorer and check out all of the 100 star systems - so many you'll never see one twice, or lil fuzzy can be a space pirate and steal other people's ships right from under them since they can't be locked, or...

OR... let your kitty enjoy a game that works until SC either gets to MVP and expands from that, or gets to MVP and runs out of money and that is it, or gets to alpha 7.0 (sure is a strange numbering system for an alpha product, or pre-alpha or... etc) and then CIG/RSI/CR go "bankrupt" and since SC relies on servers it ceases to exist. So many possibilities, I wonder which one will be it's legacy...

But do not subject your poor kitty to an Idris
 
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Pretty much all Wikipedia articles about games will have a development time mentioned that's referencing some interview with a developer at some point. There is absolutely no correlation and it's completely ambiguous. Some will say development began when they started hiring developers, working on the initial concept or first had an idea in the shower. Others might say development started after they threw away four prototype builds and hired a new team. Those comparison graphs people keep posting to prove whatever about SC are silly.

When I read how game studios work I get the shills, I simply can't imagine they are that unorganized? Any company with just a tiny bit of self preservation will know how to start any project. It starts when the PM kick the ball into the field.

Please tell me it's like that, I can't sleep thinking it's just total chaos from start to finish.
 
Pretty much all Wikipedia articles about games will have a development time mentioned that's referencing some interview with a developer at some point. There is absolutely no correlation and it's completely ambiguous. Some will say development began when they started hiring developers, working on the initial concept or first had an idea in the shower. Others might say development started after they threw away four prototype builds and hired a new team. Those comparison graphs people keep posting to prove whatever about SC are silly.

Well Duke Nukem Forever and Daikatana certainly got their dev timeline stuck with when the idea first surfaced publicly. That's the thing, it tends to be when development is first announced - which for SC began before the kickstarter. Just because they threw awa.. I mean "refactored" everything doesn't mean they get to reboot the timeline. It doesn't work for other games, doesn't work for CR - especially since he has a history of "refactoring."
 
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Star Citizen: 10 for the Chairman - Special Edition
[video=youtube;I2SBYtj9pis]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2SBYtj9pis[/video]

TLDR

[1:23] Q: Will facial customisation be static and can only choose from a preset from heads or can we manipulate certain aspects using morphology.
A: You will be able to choose from a head that you like and from there you can change the skin colour, eye colour, hairstyle and some minor alterations to the physical shape.
[3:38] Q: How customisable will hairstyles be?
A: They will be fairly customisable, you can choose from an array of styles and change their colour, but you won't be able to alter their shape specifically, but you can choose to have a hairstyle on any head you’d want.
[5:10] Q: Can I reproduce my likeness in the character creator?
A: You should be able to get pretty close.
[11:27] Q: Backers faces in the game, is it possible?
A: They’ve considered the idea, talked about it but to be determined. They would want all the characters to have the same level of fidelity as any of the top tier characters and any home photogrammetry might give them information/textures that might not be up to standard of the quality they need.
[14:11] Q: How soon will the new heads be implemented and how editable will they be?
A: Not in 2.5, but it will be iteratively implemented along the way afterwards. We’re very close now.
[16:30] Q: What quality of faces will we see on our characters, NPCs, other players?
A: What you saw in the Morrow tour, forget that quality existed as they’ve moved on and have improved the fidelity. They have tier 0,1,2,3 characters and the character you saw in the Pupil to Planet was a tier 2 character. A tier 2,3 character will hold up to a tier 0 character because it’s about the small details and animations in the tier 0,1 characters that makes them so detailed. The lowest tier is 10,000 polygons and the highest is 40,000, but the higher quality tier’s allow the full range of the actors emotions such as Mark Hamill, Gary Oldman, Mark Strong to be displayed in the game which is why they’re a tier 0 and others are 1,2,3.
[21:07] Q: Will animations adapt to your character as they get older/recover from injuries?
A: They’re planning to do animations specific to injuries, want to have the impact of an injury reflect on the character’s animation. It’s a really cool idea to have older person locomotion and they have younger ones so it may not be that difficult to move you through those sets but they don’t have the inputs yet.
[22:31] Q: With character fidelity, how do you plan on keeping the resource cost down?
A: They’ve made huge strides so far. For example a character used to be 300 megabytes in memory, and now it’s down to 30 megabytes and the animation joints went from 1,000 to 183. There’s still more to be done, but they’re working on other ways to bring costs down further without losing fidelity.
 
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Star Citizen: 10 for the Chairman - Special Edition

TLDR

[1:23] Q: Will facial customisation be static and can only choose from a preset from heads or can we manipulate certain aspects using morphology.
A: You will be able to choose from a head that you like and from there you can change the skin colour, eye colour, hairstyle and some minor alterations to the physical shape.
[3:38] Q: How customisable will hairstyles be?
A: They will be fairly customisable, you can choose from an array of styles and change their colour, but you won't be able to alter their shape specifically, but you can choose to have a hairstyle on any head you’d want.
A: You will be able to choose from a head that you like and from there you can change the skin colour, eye colour, hairstyle and some minor alterations to the physical shape.
[5:10] Q: Can I reproduce my likeness in the character creator?
A: You should be able to get pretty close.
[11:27] Q: Backers faces in the game, is it possible?
A: They’ve considered the idea, talked about it but to be determined. They would want all the characters to have the same level of fidelity as any of the top tier characters and any home photogrammetry might give them information/textures that might not be up to standard of the quality they need.
[14:11] Q: How soon will the new heads be implemented and how editable will they be?
A: Not in 2.5, but it will be iteratively implemented along the way afterwards. We’re very close now.
[16:30] Q: What quality of faces will we see on our characters, NPCs, other players?
A: What you saw in the Morrow tour, forget that quality existed as they’ve moved on and have improved the fidelity. They have tier 0,1,2,3 characters and the character you saw in the Pupil to Planet was a tier 2 character. A tier 2,3 character will hold up to a tier 0 character because it’s about the small details and animations in the tier 0,1 characters that makes them so detailed. The lowest tier is 10,000 polygons and the highest is 40,000, but the higher quality tier’s allow the full range of the actors emotions such as Mark Hamill, Gary Oldman, Mark Strong to be displayed in the game which is why they’re a tier 0 and others are 1,2,3.
[21:07] Q: Will animations adapt to your character as they get older/recover from injuries?
A: They’re planning to do animations specific to injuries, want to have the impact of an injury reflect on the character’s animation. It’s a really cool idea to have older person locomotion and they have younger ones so it may not be that difficult to move you through those sets but they don’t have the inputs yet.
[22:31] Q: With character fidelity, how do you plan on keeping the resource cost down?
A: They’ve made huge strides so far. For example a character used to be 300 megabytes in memory, and now it’s down to 30 megabytes and the animation joints went from 1,000 to 183. There’s still more to be done, but they’re working on other ways to bring costs down further without losing fidelity.

Some decent models, but then, they've already proven they have a capable art department so I wouldn't expect any less.

For what it's worth, probably the best teeth I have seen in a game aha
 
Still, it's a handy excuse for terrible performance that ol' CR has used since the Origin days. "You just don't understand pushing the limits of hardware!"

Surely you'd need substantial game play elements to actually start pushing the limits of hardware, rather than just horribly un-optimized code. Anyway, by the time CIG actually release something, everyone will have hardware that far exceeds the game's requirements.
 
Stop spreading FUD. It's all coming together nicely; and the upcoming 3.0 Jesus Patch will pave the way forward. You'll see.

ps: Development is so open, that not only do backers not know what is in the MVP, they have no clue what's in upcoming patches, nor when either product is actually getting released. Take that!

Backers do know what's in the upcoming patches. Off the top of my head, 2.6 is to have Star Marine (which includes the stabilization and new locomotion), and 3.0 is to have all physicalized planets that you can land on, including at least the Levski landing location. Shows how much you know.

If only you knew just how right you are.

ps: At least three of my sources said they have no clue what he was going on about; and they were taken aback by that statement, and which ended up being the source of many internal "discussions". I actually posted about in one of my forum comments.

There are no sources, you're lying just as you always do. You never provide proof for any of these statements from your supposed "sources." Remember when your "sources" told you the Austin office was being shuttered? Or how about when you said according to your "sources" Sandi was supposedly packing up her office during Gamescom (when she was actually at the event). Hm... guess you really don't have insiders.
 
Backers do know what's in the upcoming patches. Off the top of my head, 2.6 is to have Star Marine (which includes the stabilization and new locomotion), and 3.0 is to have all physicalized planets that you can land on, including at least the Levski landing location. Shows how much you know.

Backers only know what they've been told will be in upcoming patches, and theory-crafting obviously. That's where the fun begins with star citizen because if there's one thing we know to be true it's that delivery will not meet either expectation or CiG's stated goals.

There are no sources, you're lying just as you always do. You never provide proof for any of these statements from your supposed "sources." Remember when your "sources" told you the Austin office was being shuttered? Or how about when you said according to your "sources" Sandi was supposedly packing up her office during Gamescom (when she was actually at the event). Hm... guess you really don't have insiders.

You just don't understand source development, during world war 2 the Brits cracked the encryption of the enigma device and listened in on all the German communications for the rest of the war. This is estimated to have shortened the war by 2 years saving millions of lives. If Churchill had said in the morning papers "we cracked enigma last night by capturing an enigma machine from a sinking sub" it would only have been useful for one day.

Secret sources have to lack proof or they stop being secret. You have to judge the results which so far have been far more accurate than either theory-crafting by fans or CiG marketing.
 
You simply can't be serious.

So, the fact that they have modified 50% of CE3, while adding PBR, even though that's already in every game engine, not to mention CE5 (which even Amazon Lumberyard has), somehow makes the FrankenEngine worthy tech? And someone is going to buy the IP for this tech, when they can get the likes of the more advanced CE5 - for FREE if they wanted CE?
PBR was one of many example - the Engine for Star Citizen at this point is on pair with other current engines include the Unreal 4, Frostbite and CryEngineV. It is modified according to the needs of the project and further improved.

Furthermore buying the IP in case of a fail - this is a purely theoretical scenario that has a pretty much none existent chance to occur since the game will be delivered and it is to be expected that it sells as you can see now.

NOBODY is going to buy Star Citizen. The IP is tainted. The game is non-existent. And it already has over $125 million of liability attached to it whereby anyone buying it, has to make good on that. And when you consider the number of backers (who put all that money in) who are already entitled to it, then it's quite easy (for any sane bizdev person) to see that it's not a winning proposal.

This statement is simply wrong . As seen on the website the game already sells and generate revenue and yes it is revenue not liability but I guess I need to explain this to the simple minded so it is understandable.

Let's take a look on the basic game package.
For example the Package - Aurora MR SC Starter.

It contains:

  • Aurora MR
  • SelfLand Hangar
  • Starting Money: 1,000 UEC
  • 3 Month Insurance
  • Digital Star Citizen Manual
  • Star Citizen Digital Download

The price without VAT is 45$
Out of this package the only 2 items that are pending delivery are this

  • Digital Star Citizen Manual
  • Star Citizen Digital Download

All other stuff can be described as ready.
This means that out of the 45$ packages only 15$ (this is the actual price for the game) are not fully but partially delivered and on the best way to competition.

Now guess how it looks like with this single ship item.
This ship is fully usable in the actual game so the price of 225$ without TAX is full revenue.

The process on delivering the bought items is well on the way. It may need some time yes but it will happen. This is how it looks like. This is how marketing works Mr. Smart. You should know that.

No, when this train-wreck is finally derailed, the IP will die with it. Just like every single IP that croberts has ever worked on, and which remain languishing and ignored in the IP libraries of the entities (EA, Microsoft etc) that own them. The IP will be forgotten, and the people attached to the project will forever be derided, and articles will be written about how one man got a second chance and $124+ million to make his dream game; and due to abject incompetence, still couldn't do it.

There is absolutely no escaping the reality that is the fate of this project. It will rank up there with the likes of Daikatana, Colonial Marines, Duke Nuken Forever, NMS etc

This statement is just incorrect und the claims unproven or easily proven wrong. The German magazine Gamestar.de (the biggest PC gaming magazine in this country - and as you surely know the German PC games market is one if not the biggest in the world and surely can easily competite with the even the US market as this is mainly focused on console gaming) has released several articles this year about the Wing Commander series.
Die Geschichte von Wing Commander - Teil 1: Geburt einer Legende
Die Geschichte von Wing Commander - Teil 2: Angriff auf Elite
Die Geschichte von Wing Commander - Teil 3: Das Weltraumspiel, das alles veränderte
Die Geschichte von Wing Commander - Teil 4: Der Absturz

Hardly something that can be called "languished and ignored".

Statements like this just harms your own creditability.
 
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