The Star Citizen Thread

[Toumal]

Yes, we see this difference here on this forum. But look through RSI forum - most of people are thrilled and excited with AC saying that it iss almost perfect. And it looks like they are ready to kill anyone who has opposite opinion.

If someone prefers the SC flight model and control responsiveness to the on in ED, I say: let them. There's no "right" in preferences. I think Scott Manley's initial impressions pretty much matched mine, and he was being a gentlemen about it. It's very much a matter of taste, though I do feel like many people who just had their lofty dreams crushed are in denial about it.

What I don't think is up for debate is the level of polish. Pretty much everything from the HUD to the weird camera movements to the weak and arcadey weapon fire is... weird... empty and yet trying so hard. The weird ratcheted movement of the in-game character hand on the controls adds even more to the feeling that this should have been delayed even further perhaps.

What I liked are the backdrops, the ships and the damage models. That's pretty much it for me really. Now, you can tell me that there will be awesome improvements down the road, and that may be true, but that's not a given.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Have you played X-Rebirth? If so, How does Arena Commander's control and handling compare to it? Despite many other gripes with Egosoft's offering, I didn't mind the 'camera in space' feel too much-though it felt more comfortable using a mouse and keyboard rather than my HOTAS.

Dunno mate sorry. I decided 2 space sims was all I could afford and braben and Roberts history meant they were for me. Also whilst I loved the scope of the x games, I just found them too hard to get into..... Then I heard all the nay saying of rebirth so I decided to just pass for now. Maybe in a steam sale'...............

 

[Dante80]

The orange arrow abstracts the situational awareness that TrackIR users would have if CIG weren't above adding fundamental head tracking support from the onset.

I understand that, but it still makes the system feel arcadish and gamey when I play it. The information in the TDAS as well as the target CVI screen that rotates the target according to its relative heading to you are enough to get the situational awareness you need.

I also play ED without headtracking (for now), so learning to use the radar and left UI holographs becomes second nature after some time. I find no reason really to hone my elegant observation skills in the AC, since I just have to follow a big rotating arrow. Don't get me wrong, it does the job fine. I just think it dumbs down the skill potential..

 

[Keybuk]

(haven't read previous messages in this thread, but have just played Arena Commander)

If I EVER complain about Elite's controls, ever again, you all have permission to simultaneously punch me in the face over the Internet.

 

[Keybuk]

Oh, I died.

I kinda expected it to say "Insert $1 To Continue" there...

I really don't want to be a about it, I've backed both games to the tune of the same $ amount... but, ...

Hey, on the good side, the texture used as the skybox is pretty

 

[Vreynn]

I understand that, but it still makes the system feel arcadish and gamey when I play it. The information in the TDAS as well as the target CVI screen that rotates the target according to its relative heading to you are enough to get the situational awareness you need.

I also play ED without headtracking (for now), so learning to use the radar and left UI holographs becomes second nature after some time. I find no reason really to hone my elegant observation skills in the AC, since I just have to follow a big rotating arrow. Don't get me wrong, it does the job fine. I just think it dumbs down the skill potential..

I agree as well. I just found responding to that as an excuse to complain about the lack of head tracking support.

It's likely possible to add it into SC via TIR's mouse emulation mode and toggling on mouselook within SC. However, when I tried it, the mouse emulation always seemed to shut off when the TrackIR window doesn't have focus. I'll have to fiddle with it later.

The cockpits are very nice looking. I just wish I could easily look around within them, especially the lower hemisphere open on the Aurora.

 

[psyron]

The titles of the two main threads in the SC-Forum say it all:

1. "What es me off.... we waited for this. This could have changed direction 4 weeks ago."

2. "Arcadey Commander - chase the mouse"

-> https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/arena-commander

It's not even malicious joy i am feeling right now since i saw this coming months ago. Just pity.

Edit:
But what i don not understand is that there isn't one single video review out there coming up with the facts. Seems like all those who spend too much time into SC haven't think of having to do a critical review.

 

[Toumal]

Hey, on the good side, the texture used as the skybox is pretty

It's actually a scene. What you do in CryEngine is basically define a box with a wallpaper, some stuff like planets and a sun and perhaps some distant asteroids which you should never be able to actually fly to, and then add what's called a trackview, define 360 degree yaw and pitch animations for it, and slave it to the main camera. Then you have the engine render the trackview first, and then simply render the actual scene on top of it.

It's really rather a hack, but it's not just a texture. It's a texture plus some small 3d objects.

 

[Keybuk]

It's actually a scene. What you do in CryEngine is basically define a box with a wallpaper, some stuff like planets and a sun and perhaps some distant asteroids which you should never be able to actually fly to, and then add what's called a trackview, define 360 degree yaw and pitch animations for it, and slave it to the main camera. Then you have the engine render the trackview first, and then simply render the actual scene on top of it.

It's really rather a hack, but it's not just a texture. It's a texture plus some small 3d objects.

Well, I'm glad they spent all the time doing that.

Sure beats making a playable game.

(Poster may be more than a fraction disappointed in this alpha release)

 

[psyron]

It's actually a scene. What you do in CryEngine is basically define a box with a wallpaper, some stuff like planets and a sun and perhaps some distant asteroids which you should never be able to actually fly to, and then add what's called a trackview, define 360 degree yaw and pitch animations for it, and slave it to the main camera. Then you have the engine render the trackview first, and then simply render the actual scene on top of it.

It's really rather a hack, but it's not just a texture. It's a texture plus some small 3d objects.

Agree.

David Braben has spend years and years to think about and build all the needed technology for the next Elite game he wanted to make. From day ONE you got that feeling that everything is already in place to make this game a success.

My feeling about Chris Roberts? They hear about the plans to make Elite Dangerous and decided to make Star Citizen afterwards. Yes, they were first on the Kickstarter. But DB was first on announcing the new coming Elite game many years ago. A real space simulation!!

That's it.

Edit:
The only think CR is better in: They have a better PR department.

 

[forger]

the game that allows players to POINT or CLICK a mouse ANYWHERE on the screen resulting ship's precise movement to THAT location is dumb game.

your ship will yawn AND roll AND pitch same time when you move mouse to move your ship there, while with stick it is just impossible in the current state.

and to add not only your ship moves to precise location but you can also same time!!?!? SHOOT there your gimbaled guns, how the hell you can shoot with joystick to the corners while trying to move there by using only broken controls?

in current state this is typical AAA game - dumb as hell so anyone can feel like pilot in a game called chase the mouse, only they can dumb it down so much that all skill pilot need is to MOVE mouse and CLICK fire buttons. good job. yes, there are many interesting things like power management etc. but if flying ship is as dumb as this then that does not matter at all.

they did main game part completely wrong, in current state the game is made by very dumb developers for very dumb players, point and click, really?

sorry, i cannot believe CR is creating the game for himself as i never thought he's that dumb, so my only hope is they rushed it out with no stick implementation at all and with no thinking over that 2 dimension mouse given movement axis AND turret capabilities is plain idiotic.

i adore people who feel like flying space ships by just MOVING mouse around the screen and seeing their ship move there almost instantly, also i adore people who love to point mouse cursor all over the screen and shoot there and call this a space sim or just a space game, yes gimbaled guns need time to move, but given that ships can rotate so damn fast the turret movement is less than a second. this is not even arcade it's bull****.

CR did an Asteroids remake. will it change? seeing how many fans love this i highly doubt, i just cannot have fun flying the ship this way with mouse and flying with stick is IMPOSSIBLE...

so what we can test now in AC? only our patience.

 

[ianw]

Someone has put up the inevitable flight model poll in the AC forum;

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/140074/flight-model-mega-discussion

 

[Mu77ley]

The game recognizes the first controller in the "Set up USB controller devices" as the primary controller and binds all controls to this device. There is nothing you can do to change this. XML files provided for X55 and Warthog won't work either if your joystick is not the first device in this list and throttle is not the second one. Editing XML file won't help you either simply because it does not re-bind all controls but only a part of them. So you actually have to guess, e.g. the names of the axes to re-assign them to the correct device. I have spent about an hour yesterday in order to guess the name of X55's yaw axis with no success. While pitch and roll axes are "jsN_y" and "jsN_x" yaw axis does not work with: z, rx, ry, rz axes names. You have to re-assign main trigger as well but that's not difficult to guess.

My X52 Pro was the "only" USB game controller device plugged in...

 

[Toumal]

Agree.
My feeling about Chris Roberts? They hear about the plans to make Elite Dangerous and decided to make Star Citizen afterwards. Yes, they were first on the Kickstarter. But DB was first on announcing the new coming Elite game many years ago. A real space simulation!!

I think that's unfair towards CR. He made space games before and SC is simply consistent with what he likes to do. It's not like he needed Elite to tell him that he could try and make another space game.

 

[Aleksej]

My X52 Pro was the "only" USB game controller device plugged in...

Is it the only device in "Set up USB game controllers"? If this is the case, then I do not know how to help you. My problem is that I am using vJoy to play ED and it is the first device in the list and SC recognizes it as my primary device. There is nothing you can do to change the device order there. I had to re-install all the devices several times in order to make joystick the first device.

 

[Yari]

Please. Don't hold back your prejudices.

In fact it aren't prejudices. It was something I thought about AFTER backing SC (because I thought it was going te be good) and AFTER trying Arena Commander.
So, if anything, they are postjudices.

 

[Bains]

Hey what's wrong with the 360 controller!?

I happen to be pretty handy with one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxz3LJLosTs&t=6m0s

You know what, I own one too. But maybe its my age but I'll never get flying space ships/planes with an x box controller instead of a joystick. especially when you can pick them up for 20 bucks. Especially when you're talking about immersion. In the light of this I can fully understand also supporting the x box controller. But not overlooking the joystick/making it second in the pecking other to devices you support.

As for RSI, They've done over 70 WMHs. Why didnt they use the platform of WMH to introduce joysticks to the generation who think they some weird thing to be shunned, do features, hell even activate their world class marketing machine to do some kind of commercial tie ins with the saitecks of the world. Quite the reverse at every turn they've showed x box controllers and 3PV. They are courting a mainstream. And with AC the one control method they put the most work into is - the x box controller.

Complete lack of vision, instead just pandering to the mainstream - which requires no vision.

Remember the "I am a PC space Sim", it becomes more and more meaningless, they should have stated

"I am a PC space shooter aimed at the cross over audience from the console, dressed up as a PC Space Sim"

Still, he's got more interest in the PC platform. But the way he's gone about it, I'm no longer sure if its a good thing. And bottom line, he could have sold the more core style, joysticks and all, there was no need for all this bending over backwards to joe mainstream gamer.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

In fact it aren't prejudices. It was something I thought about AFTER backing SC (because I thought it was going te be good) and AFTER trying Arena Commander.
So, if anything, they are postjudices.

I dont think he was commenting thoughts about the game, more the stereotype quoted.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

You know what, I own one too. What I really mean is they way joysticks get overlooked. Besides. Maybe its my age but I'll never get flying space ships/planes with an x box controller instead of a joystick. especially when you can pick them up for 20 bucks.
As for RSI, consider their approach. Its not like they done a WMH feature to introduce joysticks to the generation who think they some weird thing to be shunned. And this is after 70 odd WMHs. Quite the reverse at every turn they've showed x box controllers and 3PV. They are courting a mainstream. And with AC the one control method they put the most work into is - the x box controller.

So basically it's 'I am a PC space Sim, aimed at the cross over audience from the console'. Sell out.

I'm only a few years difference in age to you...

But yeah, for what it's worth I agree with you. Arena Commander is an arcade game, and it's control method reflects that fact.

There's a comment by Chris Roberts at the end of his recent update - and maybe it's just me...but I found it to be a little snarky.

We know there’s a lot of work left to do… but we’re emboldened by the fact that our most dedicated backers seem to ‘get’ where we’re going with this.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13925-Arena-Commander-V08-Thank-You

Seems to me, the course is set, and the ship has sailed - with regards to what type of game Star Citizen is going to be. I won't say I'm not disappointed, because I am. But I'm not surprised...it's been clear for months the direction this game is heading in, even if CIG haven't been very direct 'open' about it.

I also agree with was said earlier in this thread; that CIG PR department will now slowly transition to marketing to focus on the arcadey / mainstream aspect of the game, while using doubletalk to maintain it is still a space sim.

All that said, I'm kinda ok with the direction. Disappointed for sure...but I can accept it. I'm less enamoured with CIG's attitude though.

I also think I would feel very, very different if I didn't have Elite as my main Space Sim now...

 

[Neo-ST]

I finally got to play it this morning, although for 5 minutes only.

Yes, the flight model is ridiculous.
Yes, the sounds are shallow.
Yes, there are bugs, etc.

The graphics are jawdropping, PBR in combination with high poly ships really shines and represents material well.

The game has huge potential which must be carefully shaped in order to meet TBDSSE ("The best damn space sim ever") expectations. Major tweaking is required, of course, but after all it's the first iteration of an alpha.
Its purpose is test backend servers load and to see how the system works generally when real players are introduced.

Being a part of that process may not be pretty or ideal, but it's included in my package of a backer and gives me an opportunity to be a part of shaping this game towards something better with feedback, bug reports and suggestions.

Therefore, I hope CIG will take into account some of the quality proposals from their backers and ultimately give us another game that we could all enjoy, too.