I had already mentioned way back when the FPS visualization video was shown. It's actually saves them work in the long run. The guy behind that tech was the same german that made Crysis animation back in the day and they talked about it in the latest RtV that Nolan just posted a TLDR.
Ivo Herzeg.
[What do you do?] About 12 years ago he developed an animation system for CryEngine and now he’s doing the same here. He’s responsible for getting the runtime features in the game and technology up and running that’s needed to support that.
[Can you explain what a unified rig is and why did you choose to use it for Star Citizen?] Before he explains what it is he’ll explain some pre-cursor. There’s a first person and a third person, and you only need a simple rig as most games are single player, but as games became more complex, people look down and want to see their legs and so they need to add another rig. Finally most games are multiplayer nowadays which means a third rig, so you’d have three rigs plus animation for first and third person systems.
Unified rigs only have one skeleton, but it can take a little bit longer to get animations setup correctly, but it’s much easier in the long run.
[What does it mean going forward for players?] It reduces the animations count by a lot. For all the weapons they currently have in Star Citizen, they need 50. If you compare it to Crysis 2, they had 1200.
It also forced them to animate differently and in a way that animations will be needed for a variety of different things.
With the unified rig, animations aren’t just fewer, but they can be shared as well.
All the joints are able to be animated as well so in EVA when you jump off a platform, all of your limbs are physicalized so they aren’t just ragdolled randomly, but based on physics.
[Does the stabilization that you’ve done impact mouse responsiveness like mouse smoothing?] Absolutely not, the sensitivity was turned down to get more of a panning effect for the video.
[How will sighting work with head stabilization?] They just have to simply align it to the right eye, nothing complicated.
[Is the work on head stabilization done?] Not yet, it’ll be ongoing and tweaking is something that’ll happen constantly.
[Are you afraid that head stabilisation make character models look like birds when viewed in third person?] No.
They took into account how it will look apart from making it stable.
[How does stabilization work when you fall down?] It disables when you fall down, when you get up, when you sit, and some other scenarios. Still testing other areas though.
[What input did you use to record the stabilization video?] Mouse.
[Shouldn’t the visor bounce a little even with eye stabilization. I can imagine a motorcycle bounces a little bit] It depends on what you have, with a weapon your hands bounce, without a weapon your helmet will bounce.
[Finals thoughts?] At first their one solution was thought to work, but it didn’t pan out and then after some creative googling and seeing a video of a chicken, it sparked a prototype
That’s all with Ivo Herzeg.
\\
My take on the Kotaku.uk article:
I think it was a fair and well written article, nothing really new in it for the ones following the game daily but it might have helped most of the people just looking from the sidelines to realise how hard they've managed to pull trough (and how big of a feat it was). To raise those studios/talent and make it gel and work in a well oiled way to reach where they are now was not an easy task, and it was never going to be.
Even if the title was a bit click bait it gave a honest insight with both inside/out point's of view, I say click bait because saying that a game development is troubled is a redundancy when you speak about doing things that were never done before. Being it the raising money to build studios from scratch being it pursuing new ways to push tech to do what you do or just having the will to take risks for the sake of doing something above the norm.
All the big technical hurdles that we saw some dev's opposing to. (TheOrder Graphical Fidelity, KingomCom Layered Clothing and the Rebuild of Cyengine FPS animations (1st&3rd person integration) because they said "it was stupid" or that "was impossible" were proven wrong as that tech is now done and implemented.
It's not about doing what's been done, it's not about going with what works just because it works, it's about pushing boundaries and going the extra mile to get a better game, that's why I pledged and that's why I'm not bothered by delays, I understand the frustration of other's that just wanted another game to play. But that would be about it, just another game to play and nothing special.
The last technical hurdles (planetary landings and server optimization) should be the last BIG mountain for CIG to climb, and that's what they've been working on for 3.0.
The company is now in better shape than it ever was, big team in Germany / Frankfurt and growing, HUGE team in UK. US Studios more focused, communication improved immensely (the Comunity/Dev's Videos revamp was a blessing).
And for those that think that the article was negative or the beginning of even more turmoil about Star Citizen development you will be disappointed. They have a great team assembled, the more they work the better they work, they passed through the asteroids field with just some scratches and with the FPS module and Planetary Landings coming soon the best is yet to come!
As usual, you're just praising everything CIG does and don't understand the nature of issue here.
Yes, maybe they have a "good" team now, but the point is, much more (and better) could have been done with given money and time if it wasn't for CR's huge mismanagement and misunderstanding of building such a mammoth project.
In other words, too much money&time was spent in vain.
But yeah, just keep that propaganda train running. Although they said the project was fully funded at $60M, they'll need all the extra money to keep the dream running...without a release date.
This is a problem CIG has. There are so many SC fans that accept everything that CIG does, and won't complain about anything - defending them to the hilt. CIG hear this and carry on.
I remember, in the early stages of ED (sorry - first example that came to mind) we were going to have 'jumps' to points of interest within a system, with no 'travel wherever you like'. The players hated that idea and the DDF (good job guys) argued tooth and nail for a system where we could go where we like. FD said it would be an awesome amount of work, but the backers still argued for it. We then ended up with Supercruise and we can now travel to any point in space, rather than jumping around a series of boxes.
This made ED a far better game than it would have been if we didn't challenge FD occasionally.
While the only similar example that I can think of with regards to RSI/CIG is when the forum regulars managed to, after months of pointing it out, get CIG to do *something* about the very broken and buggy (like all the other Star Citizen modules) tutorial... CIG's solution? To remove the in-game tutorial entirely.
The erstwhile Citizens hailed it as an example of just how "open" the developers were being with them, and how "people power" got CIG to change an aspect of the game that wasn't going well.
Other, less easily led observers saw it as a tacit admission from CIG that they couldn't fix their own in-game guide (something that is in practically every videogame) in any sort of way.
Yeah problems in game development, who would have thought. [rolleyes]
If try risky stuff that most people don't even think of attempting you are more susceptible of making mistakes than the ones that go with the safe route of doing the same thing over and over again.
I can't really fault CR for being ambitious, actually the fact that he gets this much funding is exactly because of that. People want a game that pushes the boundary of what's been done, because what's been done is simply not good enough for them.
As usual, you're just praising everything CIG does and don't understand the nature of issue here.
Yes, maybe they have a "good" team now, but the point is, much more (and better) could have been done with given money and time if it wasn't for CR's huge mismanagement and misunderstanding of building such a mammoth project.
In other words, too much money&time was spent in vain.
But yeah, just keep that propaganda train running. Although they said the project was fully funded at $60M, they'll need all the extra money to keep the dream running...without a release date.
Could / Would / Maybe... Conjectures.. not really a sure thing that things would be any easier. It's really not about praising, is acknowledging and understanding why said problems arise in the first place. Every company faces them, it's the ones that can't work around them that go under. In 2013/14 CIG could very well be on the path of self-implosion, but they turned it around and are now in a much more stable and comfortable position, I think no one can deny that. FD also had a rough path not so long ago, they regrouped and refocused and are now better than ever. It's the way of the industry, and business in general. You learn You adapt You improove.
Again let's say back in 2012/13 when they got around 10$ million they would just built a engine from scratch instead of trying to fork their features without the man power/knowledge to do so. How would they raise money to hire said Cryengine Experts? Were they even available at that time?
Making a new engine from scratch would take 2 years anyway, so you would be right were you are now, well I don't even think you would be here, would people keep pledging if suddenly the Arena Commander Module was a no go. "Sorry guys, no playing module, were building a engine from scratch, hang on there 2 years".
News flash , assembling a game development company takes time, getting talent is HARD, it's a very small industry, competition is fierce. 2 Years of "turmoil" for raise 4 studios with 330 dev's, have a game in alpha for show, thousands of backers, Millions of Dollars rolling in monthly and more knowledge and experience working toguether. I'd say they are in the sweet stop, I've allways laughed when people cried " I want my game, they have been making it since 2011, I'm tired of waiting" [squeeeee]
Yeah problems in game development, who would have thought. [rolleyes]
If try risky stuff that most people don't even think of attempting you are more susceptible of making mistakes than the ones that go with the safe route of doing the same thing over and over again.
I can't really fault CR for being ambitious, actually the fact that he gets this much funding is exactly because of that. People want a game that pushes the boundary of what's been done, because what's been done is simply not good enough for them.
While the only similar example that I can think of with regards to RSI/CIG is when the forum regulars managed to, after months of pointing it out, managed to get CIG to do *something* about the very broken and buggy (like all the other Star Citizen modules) tutorial... CIG's solution? To remove the in-game tutorial entirely.
The erstwhile Citizens hailed it as an example of just how "open" the developers were being with them, and how "people power" got CIG to change an aspect of the game that wasn't going well.
Other, less easily led observers saw it as a tacit admission from CIG that they couldn't fix their own in-game guide (something that is in practically every videogame) in any sort of way.
I do find it astonishing that a company with so many backers (and free beta testers) ignore the massive amount of feedback they get and censor any posts that don't agree with their vision. The enormous 'controller balance' and 'flight model' threads come to mind.
And whatever happened to the SC HOTAS, with its 'trackball gimball weapon control' (which only the brave admitted that they hated)?
Well like he said the race is not over, this is not a sprint it's a marathon and the race is still very much ON. Until then you can't really judge him for trying.
He was intelligent enough to ask his little brother for help, that doesn't strike me as the move of a ego person. He has in his ranks people with way more experience than him besides his brother, the german lead Chambers guy as well as others.
The major fault I point him is trying to do everything at the same time, but I also understand that, Star Citizen drives ships sales and Squadron 42 tied to Star Citizen is a great idea, having a epic Single player campaign to dive into with rich lore and characters and then the ability to keep the story going in a online universe with millions of other players seems like a dream game. An it is. Make it happen! [big grin]
Well like he said the race is not over, this is not a sprint it's a marathon and the race is still very much ON. Until then you can't really judge him for trying.
There's a race alright. A race against time and burning through money.
Like I said earlier, he threw away 2 years of the project. Maybe even 3. Plus 2 years forcing an off-the-shelf engine to do something it was never intended to do rather than build his own engine which - surprise - would have taken about 2 years. That's mismanagement.
Well like he said the race is not over, this is not a sprint it's a marathon and the race is still very much ON. Until then you can't really judge him for trying.
True - but in the meantime he will be judged for how he's trying.
And quite rightly so - after all the continued sales bluster/hype and side swipes at other's efforts over the years.
ETA - the marathon comment just struck me. I don't know if you've ever watched the London marathon but there's usually someone that's still going 24 hours later well after the race has finished - all the other competitors have gone home and the roads have been opened up again. The race is still on - for that individual - but no-one else. SC looks in danger of being that competitor if they don't get their act together pretty sharpish.
There's a race alright. A race against time and burning through money.
Like I said earlier, he threw away 2 years of the project. Maybe even 3. Plus 2 years forcing an off-the-shelf engine to do something it was never intended to do rather than build his own engine which - surprise - would have taken about 2 years. That's mismanagement.
How did he *threw away 2 years of the project if they kept increasing staff and funding during those 2 years? Not all was wasted, again it's very different to plan something when you already have the clear idea of your budget than increasing it as it goes.
Yes the change of scope was detrimental to meet the deadlines, but it also means a better and bigger game from the get go. Instead of waiting for updates of "standard" features they come included in the released package.
How did he trough away 2 years of the project if they kept increasing staff and funding during those 2 years? Not all was wasted, again it's very different to plan something when you already have the clear idea of your budget than increasing it as it goes.
Yes the change of scope was detrimental to meet the deadlines, but it also means a better and bigger game from the get go. Instead of waiting for updates of "standard" features they come included in the released package.
All development prior the kickstarter, and for the next 2 years, was tossed away or heavily refactored. It's even in the article.
The rest of that is just hope and dreams - with all evidence to the contrary right now.
I can see it now - 2 more years from now SC is still in development and a new game comes out with even better graphics that "The Order" and CR plays it and now all of the assets have to be done all over again. Duke Nukem Forever style.
But they gained experience as a team, they increased their staff, they assessed their needs, they pushed their crowdfunding campaign, and more importantly raise a ton of new backers and followers. If they had into silence and just focus on making the engine from scratch they would not get the funds to make the game as big as they are doing now, they probably would still be testing the engine and finding people to work with it. Either way those 2 years you would see no game to play so I don't know what's the problem in giving them those 2 years to assess the scope of the project and adapt to it, just like they did.
We can judge him on *how* he's trying (you're absolutely right), and what is currently in the game, right now. Not what's "coming soon." What happens if, in 2017, 2018, 20XX, there's another candid article to the effect of "things just weren't working right, but we're on the verge of clearing up problems and know what we're doing now?" Do we give him yet another pass? Do we change the "Now they're REALLY starting development" to the date of the article?
Chris may have a big vision. All the promises and stretch goals point to that, and there's no doubt it's one heck of an undertaking. What I'm not seeing is if there was any research into the logistics involved in pulling it off. "Wouldn't it be cool if...?" Yes. Yes it would be cool. How do you go about doing this? How do you manage a team, pick an engine, find the capable talent, and keep costs minimized (or at least somewhat limited) until you figure out a proper path? If the first year prior to the kickstarter didn't count, then today's articles point to everything up to the end of 2014 not counting either - and not due to team size, but poor decisions, which cost money. Because we don't know how much (because no one wants to know how their sausages and BDSSE are made), we can only assume it's greater than $1.
I'm glad they have a better handle on things, for now, until the next group of articles (though I'm curious as to what the next few parts of the Kotaku series will uncover). But if everything up to 2.x is a chain of bad decisions and handling, then I would be very concerned for how much of the initial backing was eaten by those years, and if they can pull off even an MVP that will sate those who have already opened their wallets.
How did he trough away 2 years of the project if they kept increasing staff and funding during those 2 years? Not all was wasted, again it's very different to plan something when you already have the clear idea of your budget than increasing it as it goes.
Yes the change of scope was detrimental to meet the deadlines, but it also means a better and bigger game from the get go. Instead of waiting for updates of "standard" features they come included in the released package.
But they gained experience as a team, they increased their staff, they assessed their needs, they pushed their crowdfunding campaign, and more importantly raise a ton of new backers and followers. If they had into silence and just focus on making the engine from scratch they would not get the funds to make the game as big as they are doing now, they probably would still be testing the engine and finding people to work with it. Either way those 2 years you would see no game to play so I don't know what's the problem in giving them those 2 years to assess the scope of the project and adapt to it, just like they did.
Could / Would / Maybe... Conjectures.. not really a sure thing that things would be any easier. It's really not about praising, is acknowledging and understanding why said problems arise in the first place. Every company faces them, it's the ones that can't work around them that go under. In 2013/14 CIG could very well be on the path of self-implosion, but they turned it around and are now in a much more stable and comfortable position, I think no one can deny that. FD also had a rough path not so long ago, they regrouped and refocused and are now better than ever. It's the way of the industry, and business in general. You learn You adapt You improove.
Again let's say back in 2012/13 when they got around 10$ million they would just built a engine from scratch instead of trying to fork their features without the man power/knowledge to do so. How would they raise money to hire said Cryengine Experts? Were they even available at that time?
It's not conjectures, it's real testimonies from real sources and it's throughout the whole article.
Here's just one quote:
Multiple sources have told me this style of development was a mistake: it spreads the team and resources thinly, it means CIG has to maintain multiple separate live releases as well as continuing work on the game.
“A wise person would say, you raised money for a spaceflight sim [Squadron 42] and you've got grand visions for a first person, third-person social component,” opined one source. “Let's use the crowd-sourced cash and build the flight component. Using this giant amazing team, focus on all these various attributes. Monetise that portion and then roll onto the next component.
“You can solve those problems one at a time, but when everyone is trying to solve all the problems all at the same time, you're going to do nothing but waste money and come across huge technical limitations that you're going to need more hands on to solve. The problems were inherent from the beginning. It's just not a wise decision to attempt everything at once.”
The immediate effect of working on so many systems concurrently was that CIG’s engineers were spread thinly. Across the studio there were developers who couldn’t move forward on their slice of the game because the underlying technology they needed to implemented hadn’t been finished. Everyone needed time from the engineers, and there just weren’t enough of them to go round.
Making a new engine from scratch would take 2 years anyway, so you would be right were you are now, well I don't even think you would be here, would people keep pledging if suddenly the Arena Commander Module was a no go. "Sorry guys, no playing module, were building a engine from scratch, hang on there 2 years".
Now that's conjecturing.
I think CIG insiders know better than you.
Quote again:
Let’s go back to a really early point in the Star Citizen story: the decision to use CryEngine. Multiple sources told me that adapting a game engine built for first-person shooters to run a massively-multiplayer universe has been a huge hindrance throughout Star Citizen’s development. Some of them say that building an engine from scratch would actually, at this point, have been more efficient.
But they gained experience as a team, they increased their staff, they assessed their needs, they pushed their crowdfunding campaign, and more importantly raise a ton of new backers and followers. If they had into silence and just focus on making the engine from scratch they would not get the funds to make the game as big as they are doing now, they probably would still be testing the engine and finding people to work with it. Either way those 2 years you would see no game to play so I don't know what's the problem in giving them those 2 years to assess the scope of the project and adapt to it, just like they did.
Better management, and better games, come from stopping, reassessing and re-evaluating, identifying the weak points and seeing that what was previously do-able no longer works and a new solution must be made - aka a custom built engine and not frankengine. Absolute mismanagement. And now whatever game does come from it will be worse off because of that.
All mechanics in place with 1 full system (Stanton) with all the features: planetary landings, dogfighting, FPS, EVA, Multicrew, Racing, multiple planets to land, moons, derelict ships, comarrays, satelites etc, multiple ships, economy, basic professions and respective ships and server infrastructure up and running.
Again its easy to look back and say "he should do this or he should do that", but its not only useless like crying over spilled milk (because that time is gone) but also conjecture, even with proven teams and engines made from scratch projects fail.
To Neo - See the Blizzard fiasco with Titan, completely scratched work of 10+ years and +50 millions of dollars! It happens, it's not a safe bet that Star Citizen would be in any better shape now, no one could know that. Stop blaming the engine, it's a poor excuse and useless one, they have the main engineers that made the engine, they own it, it's theirs and there's no other engine in the world that does what their do now. Simple.
To Furious - But they did reassess and revaluated, that's why they changed the way they were working.
All mechanics in place with 1 full system (Stanton) with all the features: planetary landings, dogfighting, FPS, EVA, Multicrew, Racing, multiple planets to land, moons, derelict ships, comarrays, satelites etc, multiple ships, economy, basic professions and respective ships and server infrastructure up and running.
Sorry, but that's just a promise. Star Marine was promised to be released one and a half years ago. Until there are tangible results accessible to anyone, the MVP doesn't exist.
Stop blaming the engine, it's a poor excuse and useless one, they have the main engineers that made the engine, they own it, it's theirs and there's no other engine in the world that does what their do now. Simple.
It is not an excuse, it is an accusation of poor management. It still is an accusation as they are STILL having to modify the engine because it still doesn't do things they need it to do.
And you can't say no other engine in the world does what theirs sort of does, you don't know all of the engines. CR only chose the ready to go engines, but there are dozens more that aren't for sale that you don't know about and certainly neither does CR.
Exactly but CIG is the one to blame for....they make sure tho create "hostile" atmosphere on their officiall website for all of us "non-believers"by closing all threads that questioning burning issues or simply "katamaried"them into the oblivion....as always making sure first that regular shills put the blame on the OP that dare to question at all the CR&CIG.......
