Ramming OP / broken?

Jon Gray

J
Apologies if this has been covered elseware, I couldn't find any definitive Q&A with FD about this, but is it just me or is ramming overpowered or broken atm?

I got PKed earlier which was fine, I was in the asteroid belt in LP and the Commander in question was obviously a greedy beggar, and wanted more merc kills for himself so killed me in his Cobra by catching me off guard.

Naturally the first thing I do is go back there in my Eagle in search of vengeance and a fair fight, and when I get back there have the slight tactical advantage bycatching him off guard, however the Eagle seems to have the structual integrity of a bicyle, he killed me a second time (I have no problem with dying, but the manner of which I died I'm not quite sure was reasonable) simply by ramming me while my shields were still up.

Sure I can understand the Cobra has a greater mass as it's a bigger ship, if a van crashed into a car the van would come off better, but something needs to be done with the ramming mechanics regarding damage while shields are still up.

A better implementation in my opinion would be that while shields are still both up if you get rammed or do the ramming then at worst you lose all your shields relative to your size, so if a Sidewinder rams an Anaconda, the sidey comes off with no shields and the Anaconda with a small dent in its shields, but doesn't instantly blow up.

If like in my instance a Cobra rams an Eagle, it seems fair for the Eagle to be stripped of all its shields while leaving the Cobra at about 30-40% shields but the ships should bounce off each others shields not deliver an instant kill.

I'd be curious to know what other players think of this idea and the thoughts on the current way ramming implemented.

As for the ramming pilot... fair play sir I would have done the same in your position ;)

Naturally never go into a dangerous situation unless you can't afford the full insurance payout because that would be really annoying!

If anyone thinks tl;dr, then the main point is that the ramming mechanics need to be improved :)
 

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
There was lots of discussion around ramming after Alpha 2 when we were all flying sidewinders in just 4 scenarios. It kind of went quiet because sidewinders bounce off each other, I never felt that anyone was using it as a successful strategy or rather they were simply raming without meaning to.

The Eagle has only been available for a few weeks so it's quite possible this is a new issue, really, yes the shield strength should be enough to withstand a ram from a sidewinder one would have thought. Although you do have more maneuverability now for dodging such an attack.
 

Jon Gray

J
Ok interesting, thanks ZeeWolf. I've died twice in my Eagle from ramming, once from glances off an NPC Sidewinder (which even at full shields resulted in an instant death) and the time now where the other player was in a Cobra.

I'm definititely going to use the superior agility of the Eagle next time, I'm quite well versed in that asteroid field and expecting to be able to go toe-to-toe with the Cobra was optimistic to say the least.

I've learnt my lesson and hopefully FD will do something with it in coming releases.
 

Lobstris

Lobstris
Wasn't ramming nerfed in Alpha 2 to do more damage to the rammer than the ram-ee, to prevent it being used as a combat tactic? (i.e. shoot out the shields then ram for instant win, or just smash into everything with a big ship). Or am I misremembering things? :S
 

Jon Gray

J
Lobstris said:
Wasn't ramming nerfed in Alpha 2 to do more damage to the rammer than the ram-ee, to prevent it being used as a combat tactic? (i.e. shoot out the shields then ram for instant win, or just smash into everything with a big ship). Or am I misremembering things? :S
Click to expand...

Hmm that is interesting, my experience has only been since Premium Beta, it would be nice if someone from Frontier would weigh in with some info.

I'll wait until the next release then if it's still broken open a ticket, I think that's a fair way to play it :)
 

grae3107

grae3107
Definately issues with ramming or even collision damage.

In may Eagle I had full shields and 100% hull. The NPC Cobra I was attacking clipped me had only 26% hull and no shields.

Result = I exploded.

Impact damage needs to calculate not only mass but remaining structural integrity, shield strength and speed.
 

Stachel

Banned
Stachel
Lobstris said:
Wasn't ramming nerfed in Alpha 2 to do more damage to the rammer than the ram-ee, to prevent it being used as a combat tactic? (i.e. shoot out the shields then ram for instant win, or just smash into everything with a big ship). Or am I misremembering things? :S
Click to expand...

Gosh I hope not. Bangerz should be a legitimate tactic (it was in Frontier) and absolutely the first refuge of a scoundrel. :D
 

ZaphodBeeble

ZaphodBeeble
I can recall ramming two commanders to death in my Sidewinder with them also in Sidewinders. One was at about 35% hull with no shields - I boosted into him; I had energy in my engines but no pips. My shields were almost full with 4 pips in SYS. It was awesome. I was laughing maniacally. Those two kills were in quick succession, I wasn't trying to ram, it just happened. I can't recall the details of the other kill.
 

Thorn Black

T
Jon Gray said:
Evening, nice of you to make an appearance, I wondered whether the perpetrator himself would comment!

Kahn said it best... revenge is a dish best served cold and I will have your corpse at some point, it is inevitable ;)
Click to expand...

It was a nice fight. The last one I meant ... Was wonderring how many times you gonna come back.
And I enjoyed every momment there.

BTW I though you wanted to ram me ... but I guess it looked the same from Your point of view.
 
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Jon Gray

J
Yeah definitely and good fights. well maybe not the first time I thought it was some angry NPC pirate shooting me and by the time I realised it was you I was a flying coffin.

Was my first real proper combat experience because I don't count when someone selects the wrong side at a Fed v Locals fight a real one, as that's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. I will explore most elements of ED but PvP is where I get my kicks and I relish the challenge, although rams of doom need to nerfed / toned down a bit I think.

Certainly wasn't me unleashing the ramming, I heard the Eagle was made of paper mache so that wouldn't have ended well. I actually thought you knew that too hence why you did it. Since that incident I've had a few more ramming incidents (although not against player Cobras) and with shields up against a Sidey you can survive.

After I came back the second time I didn't have the credits for a 3rd rebuy or I would have definitely come back.

After the next patch if you're up for it then I challenge you to a duel, Eagle v Cobra, same place, those asteroids make it much more fun :D

gg anyway sir!
 

Graill

G
There is an easy fix for ramming, ramming exploiting, etc.

Due to the Reflux modulation in the shield matrix touching shields results in the destruction of both ships in spectacular fashion.

...OR, Ships simply bounce off one another and go spinning around wildly.

Or....ships become glued together forever because of Florx capacitance. There are tales in the verse of planet sized masses of ships rolling around in a ball and over the comms...you hear the anguished screams of the innocent and exploiter alike.....
 

Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
There used to be an old miniature game called Adeptus Titanicus, one of the mechanics of that was that two miniatures in contact with each other shielded each other with the sum total of their remaining shields.

It was great for rescuing damaged friends.

It was also great for knocking up your own attack plans - if you had one enemy titan shields down, weapons out, completely helpless, and one of your side charges in for a close combat kill and failed his roll - you then had to batter down your own guys shields to try and kill it before it's weapons came back online.

I hope that Elite can distinguish between deliberate ramming to destroy, and a gentle nudge out of the way, and a covering action by a protector.
 

Reconcilliation

R
Jon Gray said:
Apologies if this has been covered elseware, I couldn't find any definitive Q&A with FD about this, but is it just me or is ramming overpowered or broken atm?

I got PKed earlier which was fine, I was in the asteroid belt in LP and the Commander in question was obviously a greedy beggar, and wanted more merc kills for himself so killed me in his Cobra by catching me off guard.

Naturally the first thing I do is go back there in my Eagle in search of vengeance and a fair fight, and when I get back there have the slight tactical advantage bycatching him off guard, however the Eagle seems to have the structual integrity of a bicyle, he killed me a second time (I have no problem with dying, but the manner of which I died I'm not quite sure was reasonable) simply by ramming me while my shields were still up.

Sure I can understand the Cobra has a greater mass as it's a bigger ship, if a van crashed into a car the van would come off better, but something needs to be done with the ramming mechanics regarding damage while shields are still up.

A better implementation in my opinion would be that while shields are still both up if you get rammed or do the ramming then at worst you lose all your shields relative to your size, so if a Sidewinder rams an Anaconda, the sidey comes off with no shields and the Anaconda with a small dent in its shields, but doesn't instantly blow up.

If like in my instance a Cobra rams an Eagle, it seems fair for the Eagle to be stripped of all its shields while leaving the Cobra at about 30-40% shields but the ships should bounce off each others shields not deliver an instant kill.

I'd be curious to know what other players think of this idea and the thoughts on the current way ramming implemented.

As for the ramming pilot... fair play sir I would have done the same in your position ;)

Naturally never go into a dangerous situation unless you can't afford the full insurance payout because that would be really annoying!

If anyone thinks tl;dr, then the main point is that the ramming mechanics need to be improved :)
Click to expand...

As much as you keep pointing out how you're not mad you got killed, and you only died because he cheated, not because of your own ineptitude; your entire post still reads like this: "Please nerf x because it killed me".
 

Jon Gray

J
Reconcilliation said:
As much as you keep pointing out how you're not mad you got killed, and you only died because he cheated, not because of your own ineptitude; your entire post still reads like this: "Please nerf x because it killed me".
Click to expand...

Haha you're a funny guy but I'll bite...

I'm not sure if you've participated in Beta's before but the phase we're in is meant to test and flex all of the networking code and balance the game prior to release.

My post was merely questioning whether the ramming mechanics are flawed in the implementation as it stands in PB 1.0.

I've played many MMOs and I have no problem whatsoever with dying. Why would I really care about losing ~5000 CR, do you think I haven't died before or something??

And as for "Please nerf x because it killed me":

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20477

Pot, kettle, black. So wind your neck in son, wind your neck in.
 

Dr Wookie

Dr Wookie
Think of it this way... bullets are little lumps of mass fired at high speed. A sidewinder is a big lump of mass, say 100000 times the mass with about 1/10 speed. So ramming absolutely should have the potential to wreck a ship.

Bigger ships with more powerful shields are going to come off better than smaller ships. Just before the beta wipe, I totalled my cobra by careening into a lakon, and that wasn't really bothered :p
 
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