Jameson memorial outfitting has gone !

Oh hush you, don't spoil my fun :D



It's time for a graphic I think. This is how I see it - your new friend in the cutter or whatever is in the small circle. ;)

http://i.imgsafe.org/55d3971d7a.jpg

That graphic is very accurate. Sitting outside a station shooting n00bs, or missile spamming, or otherwise actively trying to ruin peoples enjoyment (see Something Awful/Goon Squad) = griefing (including subset 'ganking').

Just being a '' and blowing someone up, well, depends on the motivations, but while annoying, probably isn't griefing.
 
Ok so i clearly missing something here, can you give me your definition of griefing? For me after proper research on this particular word (i'm french so, maybe i miss something about this english word) but the definition is that :

"Griefing is the act of chronically causing consternation to other members of an online community, or more specifically, intentionally disrupting the immersion of another player in their gameplay."

or even

"Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game."

And that's exactly what they doing no?

I fail to see how shooting you in an online game which is set in a dangerous galaxy is 'intentionally disrupting your immersion'. If anything, it should be adding to it.

This game doesn't have teams, so the second definition which would usually apply to team-based pvp games doesn't seem to apply at all.

Within the context of online gaming griefing is usually considered to include abusing other players using in-game communication such as text and voice chat, threats (either in-game and outside of a role-playing context, or real-life threats), deliberately sabotaging team play (as in the definition that you cited) and other violations which cannot be deemed to be part of the intended gameplay experience.

No matter what you might think about it (and I'm going to stress again that I am not saying you have to like it) there is no way that a player simply deciding to attack another in this game can be considered to be outside of the intended gameplay experience.

Put simply, I know players who have been on the receiving end of genuine griefing in games, in particular people who have suffered serious racist abuse, female gamers who have had to endure the kind of sexual comments that you wouldn't make to a drunken prostitute, players who have had homophobic abuse and death threats hurled at them and other similar behaviour, including players who have had other players single them out and actively hunt them for literally months, every single time they tried to play the game. I don't happen to believe that anybody should have to endure those things when playing a computer game.

Simply having your ship blown up by a player to whom it represented no threat doesn't really compare in my opinion. As I've already said it's a move in my opinion but that is all it is.

To be honest, I've been round this track so many times on here (as have most other players) that I'm already tired of typing about it and I'm sure most people are tired of reading about it, so I'm not passing further comment.

That graphic is awesome! You really should copyright it, because I can see it popping up in quite a few threads here from now on :)

Thanks :D It is an original creation of mine, however I cheerfully extend the right to use it for anything, to anyone, anywhere, the world needs more laughing.
 
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Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
Thanks :D It is an original creation of mine, however I cheerfully extend the right to use it for anything, to anyone, anywhere, the world needs more laughing.
Well, I can't rep you again. So you'll have to make due with a virtual +1 for this one. Sorry :)
 
So on that thinking why can't the Stations news reports come out clearly and state something along these lines " The system/Station is in Lockdown because we have some .......... (Insert problem)" To help the System/Station return to normal we ask for all cmdrs to ........... (Insert solution)?

Well it would help in that and give these station announcers something else to say other than endlessly over-mantraing on loitering and speeding!
 
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Ok, so I'm not trying to be rude, but I am being blunt, which easily comes across as rudeness.
With that out of the way, all that means is he doesn't know for sure and doesn't want to be the one that effs up and says the wrong thing on a subject people are quite animated about. Basically it's a standard customer support way of getting people to shut up and move on. Customer support don't know how the game is supposed to run, they just filter things and manage stuff that's actually on a known bugs list and help keep customers happy, so until a community manager or a developer actually comes out and says it's a bug, then it's not a bug because it's how the game operates.
Hopefully I didn't come across as rude this time but eh oh well if I did.

Hence my comment that there's ambiguity there that needs clarifying. My point though is that you can't 100% state its intended as there hasn't been any clarification in either direction. It doesn't make a lot of difference to me whether it is or isn't intended, though I do think other statements here about knowing how close to and from restoration/lockdown a system is, even roughly. Likewise there's no real indication other than the services completely missing. It's easy to not realise it's in lockdown as nothing tells you if you don't go look for it. If the services are gone they should still show, but state they're unavailable due to lockdown.
 
The fundamental problem with this situation is that Shinrarta Dezhra is unique. It is unlike other systems and cannot be affected in the same way because of its status as the Founders system.
It is there as a benefit and privilege afforded to Founders and Elite-ranked players. That benefit is the availability of all ships and all modules, at a discount. That is what has been given to acknowledge both groups.
It cannot therefore be allowed to succumb to the vagueries of the background sim. This point was rapidly established in the Beta of Powerplay.
On another point, its location, surrounded by Federation factions, already makes it less usable for non-federation faction aligned commanders as it is. This current issue though has not arisen previously, suggesting something has changed somewhere. What hasn't changed is Founders' World's role in the game. It cannot fulfil this role if the background sim is allowed to deny access to the very benefits it is there to provide.
 
The fundamental problem with this situation is that Shinrarta Dezhra is unique. It is unlike other systems and cannot be affected in the same way because of its status as the Founders system.
It is there as a benefit and privilege afforded to Founders and Elite-ranked players. That benefit is the availability of all ships and all modules, at a discount. That is what has been given to acknowledge both groups.
It cannot therefore be allowed to succumb to the vagueries of the background sim. This point was rapidly established in the Beta of Powerplay.
On another point, its location, surrounded by Federation factions, already makes it less usable for non-federation faction aligned commanders as it is. This current issue though has not arisen previously, suggesting something has changed somewhere. What hasn't changed is Founders' World's role in the game. It cannot fulfil this role if the background sim is allowed to deny access to the very benefits it is there to provide.

Hopefully FD will make the decision to protect this unique system from the consequences generated by the BGS. If not, it's very uniqueness is going to make it a prime target going forward.......

G
 
Hopefully FD will make the decision to protect this unique system from the consequences generated by the BGS. If not, it's very uniqueness is going to make it a prime target going forward.......
An easy fix which would fit into the setting would be make it so permit systems do a "lock out" instead of "lock down". Same as a lockdown but services stay active, it simply locks out anyone who's contributed to what would have been a lockdown until the status is removed. In the case of someone who owns the permit and destroyed a ship belonging to the permit government (player ships officially belong to the Pilot's Federation faction), that person would need to pay the replacement cost of the ships before the permit is re-issued.

This would give permit systems more meaning.
 
An easy fix which would fit into the setting would be make it so permit systems do a "lock out" instead of "lock down". Same as a lockdown but services stay active, it simply locks out anyone who's contributed to what would have been a lockdown until the status is removed. In the case of someone who owns the permit and destroyed a ship belonging to the permit government (player ships officially belong to the Pilot's Federation faction), that person would need to pay the replacement cost of the ships before the permit is re-issued.

This would give permit systems more meaning.

Players don;t take the time to bring on a Lockdown, to inconvenience themselves. They do it to bring trouble onto an opposing faction. Bringing a system, or Faction into Lockdown is one of the many BGS states that can hinder a Faction from doing and gaining all of the things that raise Influence. If your suggestion were taken up, no one would ever bring that state on. Why would anyone punish themselves, ruining the state for groups attempting to dominate systems, and expand?

Just because some enterprising Commanders use it to inconvenience others is no reason to dismantle it. The same way you wouldn't dismantle the PvP arrangement because some Commanders are inconvenienced by having their ships destroyed.
 
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I don't think taking Shinrarta out of the BGS is a good idea. Or if they do that they need to give the Dark Wheel a system of their own. There is potentially some very interesting game play there some time in the future I hope.
I do think that playing the BGS to reinstate services is the way to go but I think that crime and punishment needs to be looked at.
Revoking a permit is a possibility, but there is a risk that it removes too much game play. I'm more in favour of a delayed (after a trail of sorts) and temporary revoke (thus allowing events to play out). I would also like to see the PF sending Elite NPC's in wings after "criminals" that kill their members and commit crime in their system.

When the community goal got shut down because of the lock-down, FDEV (Micheal Brookes) said that they intervened because the efforts it took to cause the lock down was disproportionate to the effect it had on game play. So I would then ask FDEV to look closely at how this plays out, and see if adjustments to the BGS are needed. For now we should play the BGS. Sandy has already said that Crime and Punishment is something he would like to revisit (it's on the list I presume).

BGS influence relations from FDEV (Pre 2.1, but should still be valid):
WbBz6Lt.png
 
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Likewise there's no real indication other than the services completely missing. It's easy to not realise it's in lockdown as nothing tells you if you don't go look for it.

In the beta it is far more obvious. People tell you the system is in lockdown. Also since you are told if a system is in Boom etc when you engage FSD I assume that also covers Lockdown.
 
Is the BGS linked to the one on test?

It might be in lockdown because loads of CMDRs are 'testing' there and causing a crime spree
 
Is the BGS linked to the one on test?

It might be in lockdown because loads of CMDRs are 'testing' there and causing a crime spree

The Beta is supposed to be completely separate from the real game. Commanders have tested at SD in previous Beta tests without this happening, so I don't think it would be that.
 
The Beta is supposed to be completely separate from the real game. Commanders have tested at SD in previous Beta tests without this happening, so I don't think it would be that.

Yes. Also, there has been a sharp increase in station camping at Jameson. Firing through the slot, etc. Highly amusing, I guess... :-/
 
Yes. Also, there has been a sharp increase in station camping at Jameson. Firing through the slot, etc. Highly amusing, I guess... :-/

Tools will be tools. Unfortunately, all the salt people have been spilling about this affair will only fuel their desire to do it again. If it goes into lockdown, don't whine like a child, just work to oppose it. The tools will get bored, especially if they're not getting the reaction they crave, and move on. Bullying and opposing bullying 101. It's incredibly simple people.
 
Yes. Also, there has been a sharp increase in station camping at Jameson. Firing through the slot, etc. Highly amusing, I guess... :-/

What, you mean......Firing in a 'No Fire Zone' Surely the game mechanics will make sure the perpetrator is severely dealt with by the Station.............Oh I remember No it doesn't, not a sausage, damn all, nothing, :x :x :x

Hmmmm [sad]

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Tools will be tools. Unfortunately, all the salt people have been spilling about this affair will only fuel their desire to do it again. If it goes into lockdown, don't whine like a child, just work to oppose it. The tools will get bored, especially if they're not getting the reaction they crave, and move on. Bullying and opposing bullying 101. It's incredibly simple people.

Great advice Divine (Again).

What Jameson Memorial, Eh, where is that?
 
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