The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Esvandiary]

It was clarified he meant Landing, not his dad, so just a misunderstanding.

Disco Landing, you say...?

Seriously though, yeah as stated it was a miscommunication by Neo-ST, he was talking about Lando.
Dad Lando seemed nice enough to me, still think it was highly weird he was part of the stream but whatever. Maybe in future FD streams we can look forward to meeting Ed's mum or something.

 

[Backer42]

This is true, and this killed Elite for many of my friends. Many people tried to "win me over" saying that SC will no doubt release sooner. Then it was that it will no doubt be more impressive. Now it is that the ambition is no doubt greater.

Elite was killed for me by no single player (MMO), no mods, no private servers etc. Stuff that was promised for Star Citizen, if you remember. So I had very good reasons to back one and not the other.

Now it's 2016 and Star Citizen has turns into an Elite clone while the space game providing the above doesn't exist and won't exist before the genre dies again. Sad, but this is how the cookie crumbles.

 

[Asylum]

I can only speak for myself but I simply don't buy into hype, if anything it's counterproductive with me. The more someone pushes the (American style) hard sell and promises the sky the more likely I am to think there's something wrong. A good product speaks for itself, with ED I backed immediately after logging out of the demo which I played to make sure it was good, I liked it and my system could run it. The advertising just pointed me at something I could test for myself.

The whole cult of celebrity passes me by completely as well, I simply don't care what some random employee's dad thinks it bears no relevance to the product and looks like a desperate and lame attempt at unconvincing marketing filler.

No hate for Lando or his dad, just total indifference to who they are or what they think and wondering why anyone would think I care.

Heard of ED having backed SC. Played the demo and immediately went into P beta because I like how it played. I still like how it plays and when I play a game it's elite (or DCS). Because of the gameplay ... I don't expect either of those games to AAA impress me...I don't even play AAA.

Disco's dad comments are like hearing Bill'/ comments on Hilary..or Ivancas on trump. Of course it's going to be heavily biased...I'm not getting an objective opinion...only one rife with corn dog and pixie dust. No offense disco's dad.

I don't particularly like Disco Lando either. Never really did from the start when he was doing just lando videos...then he was interviewed a few times ... and why do I care what this guy has to say...oh now he's working for CIG....meh.

The 42 hype for citcon was real, so was the hype for an earth like...they failed to deliver that. There was more SQ42 stuff last year and it was a whole year ago. Not a frame, /screen grab or anything of SQ42.

I wonder where O is who bought the hype and was all "wait until citcon."

I would have loved to see a 42 mission even if it wasn't "final". The blocking, the immersion, the interaction...you know a gameplay loop that doesn't rely 100% on "emergent gameplay"....

Just my opinion...

 

[Toumal]

Yeah that's perhaps the worst part. The people who have been pushing SC on various forums kept saying "just wait until Citizencon"...

Now the same people say "we never said citizencon was going to be a huge thing, it was JUST planets 2.0 and planned as such from the start"...

 

[kwik]

speaking of giant worms in space games
https://youtu.be/1jHEuYraxEg?t=16m5s

 

[Asylum]

Yeah that's perhaps the worst part. The people who have been pushing SC on various forums kept saying "just wait until Citizencon"...

Now the same people say "we never said citizencon was going to be a huge thing, it was JUST planets 2.0 and planned as such from the start"...

That moving of the goal posts is so unbelievably condescending and pathetic. CR is on record doing it which is even more unbelievable because he accepted funds based on what he himself said.

Those statements if you can't own what you said and apologize for it you lose my respect and ability to objectivly listen to what one has to say.

 

[Dr Wookie]

I really love that logic.

“Unless they're working at full capacity (which will always be something completely undefinable), the work just doesn't count!”

CIG was working at full capacity in 2011–2012, back when they were a handful of them (+an outsourced team to create the pitch demo). They were working at full capacity in 2013, when there were a couple of dozen (+a couple of outsourced teams to create various parts of new demos to be pitched). They were working at full capacity in 2014, when there were expanding into the hundreds (+several outsourced teams to create actual gameplay for them). They were were working at full capacity in 2015, when their number counted several hundreds (+hundreds more in outsourced teams if Ben wasn't completely misinformed…).

But no, those millions of man-hours do not count. Only the ones from an arbitrary point in the past (which will be a completely different point in a month or two) are admissible as actual development. [wacky]

One thing that really should be made more of is that $125 Million made over the course of a few years of project development is VERY different from having $125 M initially. Say you start making a game for $20 M, you have to compromise on the quality of assets you make. Then you get another $50 M and think a little bigger... many of those previous assets are scrapped and the money is wasted. Make ANOTHER $50 M, and who knows how much money has simply been thrown away on further culling of previously approved work.

By the way, since CIG said they could finish with $65 M, they can totally afford to drop $60 M on motion capturing SQ 42, right? That's just maths !

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Sorry but this really bugs me.

I had to go check to confirm but as expected... OA's video is just a cut together of the ProcPlanetsv2 demo and him talking over it. Why is that better than the ProcPlanetsv2 demo?
.

agree/disagree thats cool, but why would me posting obsidian ants video annoy you? it maybe isnt better than a 30 min video (or is there another one that i have missed) - infact i dont think i said it was better ? but i like the obsidian one because it is nice and short and to the point and collates the longer video for those without 30min to spare.
u. it was not my intention to anger anyone.... i just liked the video and it got my interest up that is all... no ulterior motives... I also like some of the space to surface transitions i have seen as well.... again, it does not mean people who do not think it is impressive are wrong.... we are all allowed to like different stuff

to be honest tho, for me, the reason i personally prefered the obsidion ant video is because it did not have that annoying audience in the background. i am sure every time there are one of those videos there are the same voices i can hear whooping etc, and that tends to put me off them.

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speaking of giant worms in space games
https://youtu.be/1jHEuYraxEg?t=16m5s

i am really interested in that game too...... its one of a number on my radar that is for sure.

 

[Soliluna]

Don't forget Land's actual dad was on the stream. I think Nowak thought someone was attacking him, which indeed would have been weird and uncalled for. It was clarified he meant Landing, not his dad, so just a misunderstanding.

Calling someone fake and spineless is not a term of endearment but it's certainly not "hate". The words have meaning and if true they represent valid descriptors. At worst it could be considered slander. Misunderstood or not, the term "hate" is being bandied about incorrectly too often, needs to be stamped out.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Trying to turn away from "hate"....a bit of status update. So we know flight model changes - quite substantial - will be published in upcoming weeks - most likely November. That can indicate path to make SC/SQ42 something more enjoyable. By all accounts SC Alpha 2.6 and 3.0 is a bit too far to say if they even can be released in this year.

I think that wraps it up for me at this point. Will peak into this now and then, but I guess it is time to move on. Hopefully will hear something really interesting with new flight model changes. See you guys till then.

 

[Stormprooter]

Trying to turn away from "hate"....a bit of status update. So we know flight model changes - quite substantial - will be published in upcoming weeks - most likely November. That can indicate path to make SC/SQ42 something more enjoyable. By all accounts SC Alpha 2.6 and 3.0 is a bit too far to say if they even can be released in this year.

I think that wraps it up for me at this point. Will peak into this now and then, but I guess it is time to move on. Hopefully will hear something really interesting with new flight model changes. See you guys till then.

Same here on the flight model - it it does turn out to be a decent improvement I may even do a boring video with tasteless soundtrack

 

[lysan]

Trying to make it Frontier's responsibility to ensure a subforum on their website adheres to your own point of view is low in itself really. Really, what are you asking for? That we are all responsible for what everyone else posts, because it doesn't look good for Frontier?

The forum certainly has rules, but I'm not sure if being mildly insulting towards someone in a video is against them is it?

While I agree that it isn't a very nice thing to say about someone merely being enthusiastic about space games, we could pop over to the SC forum and say that about Derek Smart I think if you don't think someone is being nice say so, but trying to make it the fault of Frontier and everyone who plays ED is way OTT

I was nice once!

Look my first post here...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/20492-Lysander-say-hello

They never knew what hit them he he,

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speaking of giant worms in space games
https://youtu.be/1jHEuYraxEg?t=16m5s

Oh that actually look like a nice space game, maybe I should pick it up, is it beta or released?

 

[frostypaw]

agree/disagree thats cool, but why would me posting obsidian ants video annoy you? it maybe isnt better than a 30 min video (or is there another one that i have missed) - infact i dont think i said it was better ? but i like the obsidian one because it is nice and short and to the point and collates the longer video for those without 30min to spare.
u. it was not my intention to anger anyone.... i just liked the video and it got my interest up that is all... no ulterior motives... I also like some of the space to surface transitions i have seen as well.... again, it does not mean people who do not think it is impressive are wrong.... we are all allowed to like different stuff

to be honest tho, for me, the reason i personally prefered the obsidion ant video is because it did not have that annoying audience in the background. i am sure every time there are one of those videos there are the same voices i can hear whooping etc, and that tends to put me off them.

haha i can totally understand that much - sorry fella you seem to have caught a bit of accidental collateral damage there, no gripe at you at all. i'm just not a fan of the rehashing/theory crafting world of youtube which is mostly full of underinformed people spreading misinformation. often they have things grievously about face but then it's thousands of views later and never gets edited and corrected

SC and NMS have been terrible victims of this and often upon going back to the source video it's clearly not showing what it's touted as, but the upsell at each step of abstraction just hypes more with someone else's theorycrafting now stated as fact.

 

[xyphic]

One thing that really should be made more of is that $125 Million made over the course of a few years of project development is VERY different from having $125 M initially. Say you start making a game for $20 M, you have to compromise on the quality of assets you make. Then you get another $50 M and think a little bigger... many of those previous assets are scrapped and the money is wasted. Make ANOTHER $50 M, and who knows how much money has simply been thrown away on further culling of previously approved work.

I think most people get that. In the first year, they'd pretty much got their funding model down to an art, and it's at that point they really should have been looking to a final budget and scope. However, they seem to work on a very ad-hoc basis and feature creep has been happening throughout the project. Because they don't have a set budget they are *always* marketing the product, which effectively means spending money to make money. They will necessarily make high-quality polished assets that end up getting thrown away, or incurring huge amounts of technical debt by promising things that aren't straightforward (e.g. all that work on procedural damage, explosions, etc. with little to no thought on how that's going to be possible with tens or hundreds of players in the same instance all having to sync up).

What I saw from the CitizenCon demo was (again) something that *looks* pretty great, that demonstrates the type of gameplay that they're aiming for, and that once again incurs a large amount of technical debt as the developers have to produce something that's at least as good as the demo, but that's actually playable. Either that or they have to hope that the backers will forget what was originally promised.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

haha i can totally understand that much - sorry fella you seem to have caught a bit of accidental collateral damage there, no gripe at you at all. i'm just not a fan of the rehashing/theory crafting world of youtube which is mostly full of underinformed people spreading misinformation. often they have things grievously about face but then it's thousands of views later and never gets edited and corrected

SC and NMS have been terrible victims of this and often upon going back to the source video it's clearly not showing what it's touted as, but the upsell at each step of abstraction just hypes more with someone else's theorycrafting now stated as fact.

no worries i didnt mean to rehash what had been posted before, compared to Elite I am pretty much a mere slightly interested consumer when it comes to SC, so what is old hat to some of you guys who follow it closely is genuinely new to me as i only look in every 6 months or so.

but no offence taken anyway

a little edit (aimed at everyone not FrostyP), i am just watching the full 30min vid, with all the talk over removed and to those who are unimpressed by it (fair enough) however.... Are you expecting Elites Dangerous atmospheric planets to be better than this, on a par with it, or worse than this?

 

[darkoff]

Back in E3 proKar_garlic predicted the reactions to citizencon demo.
We are all amazed for all the wrong reasons.

Well I guess you will have to wait for Gamescom in August and CitizenCom in October, but even with the SQ42 reveals it will be the procedural tech planets / asteroids jaw-dropping showcase that will steal the show. The gaming world will collectively be amazed, shocked and confused. But mostly amazed.

during gamescom ppl still kept saying how citizencon will amaze us.

I think CitizenCon will show a trailer of SQ42 and a more clear road map for it. I think they'll show other aspects of 3.0 like cargo or trading. I think the latest build of 3.0 will be playable to the attendants (I will be one of them).


I think the December live stream will do a recap of what was accomplished and the roadmap for 2017. I think if SQ42 hasn't been released yet it will either be during that live stream or an announcement will be made that they had to delay it for x months. I think 3.0 will definitely be released during the live stream, if not before.

I don't foresee many of the critics changing their stances though.

No biggie, Citizencon is only a month away, lulzbuckets galore! [big grin]

New ATV is up, this time from the Frankfurt, where the magic happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7GG0y8Jmcs



Uncharted doesn't even go for a realistic approach to characters, it goes for a painted art style, similar to a Disney movie. And not only Drake doesn't look better than Star Citizen Tier 0 model's (Hamill, Davos, Oldman, and most of the rest of the Hollywood heavyweights) but it doesn't look better than the Tier 1, 2, 3 model's.

Being only focused on PC means that Star Citizen is not hindered by outdated hardware from consoles, what happened with Watchdogs, Division and ACM was that they had to run across 2 generations of consoles and the last one "next-gen" was made weaker than they thought it would be. So yes Star Citizen will look miles better than anything console games can achieve until maybe Scorpio arrives.

PS - Contrary to what was spread by some through here, 2.6 patch testing is not delayed as it was allways planned to be in late early October for the Evocati. 3.0 is and was allways schedule for end of the Year since the announcement in Gamescom. As usual Citizencon should bring more news about that and Squadron 42 release date.

Now the question is will we even see 3.0 within 6 months?

How many presentations we have to see about this planetary tech.

first it was pupil to planet in december with eta of couple months
then it was gamescom 3.0
now its citizencon
Yet there is 0 thing integrated into baby pu. And first trailer showcasing the tech was 9 months ago.

our current game version is 2.5 with 2.6 being nowhere in sight for near future. If they work 2.6 out in 1 month of time it will leave 1 month 5 days to work towards getting 3.0 out during x-mas.
Frankly im sceptical that it will happen. Especially with how long it took to get 2.4 into 2.5
I would say that we will see 3.0 6 months from now, and im basing that on development pace between 2.3 to 2.5 (took 6 months to do it)
Do note that these were relatively minor patches in comparison to what needs to get implemented for 2.6 and 3.0, so dont be suprised if delay is actually much higher.

 

[Y'Berion]

Oh that actually look like a nice space game, maybe I should pick it up, is it beta or released?

Early access atm. This short review is pretty accurate description of current state of the game: http://kotaku.com/space-sim-osiris-new-dawn-is-messy-but-shows-promise-1787707778

 

[Monk]

a little edit (aimed at everyone not FrostyP), i am just watching the full 30min vid, with all the talk over removed and to those who are unimpressed by it (fair enough) however.... Are you expecting Elites Dangerous atmospheric planets to be better than this, on a par with it, or worse than this?

I expect that when it is shown to us, I'll be able to play it in short order.

Also, yes, I expect it [ED] to be better. Terrain generation, when not hand-crafted, is already better. People just don't see it because the gloss of good lighting. Which airless rocks, accurately, lack.

I also expect ED's atmospheric flight model to be a lot more punishing (bring a loaded t7 and expect it to drop like a meteor unless you get a good angle on reentry) and skill based but that is based on pure guessing.

 

[Frank]

a little edit (aimed at everyone not FrostyP), i am just watching the full 30min vid, with all the talk over removed and to those who are unimpressed by it (fair enough) however.... Are you expecting Elites Dangerous atmospheric planets to be better than this, on a par with it, or worse than this?

I expect that when it is shown to us, I'll be able to play it in short order.

Also, yes, I expect it [ED] to be better. Terrain generation, when not hand-crafted, is already better. People just don't see it because the gloss of good lighting. Which airless rocks, accurately, lack.

I also expect ED's atmospheric flight model to be a lot more punishing (bring a loaded t7 and expect it to drop like a meteor unless you get a good angle on reentry) and skill based but that is based on pure guessing.

On par.

I would also expect a few more vehicles as well. Maybe as well as tourist safaris and big game hunting there might be a few missions involving hauling goods over the surface of a planet.

 

[Monk]

On par.

I would also expect a few more vehicles as well. Maybe as well as tourist safaris and big game hunting there might be a few missions involving hauling goods over the surface of a planet.

OMG...American Truck Simulator...EAT YOUR HEART OUT!

Would love to haul a bunch of cargo on a surface crawler while using defense turrets on the top to ward off pirates.