Exploration Scans

[jestersheepy]

Sorry, I don't really have time to read every post in the thread but here is my 2 cents.

I think gameplay > everything else has to be taken into account with a fair degree of 'that makes sense'.

Flying up to a planet in order to get an additional scan to reveal the planet doesn't make sense from both gameplay and logic.
Gameplay: It would be a chore and repetitive, it would also be locking away exploration behind more time sinks.
Logic: When you get that close you are essentially scanning with your eyes which begs, why even have the feature in the first place?

An ideal solution would be, so have to fit a basic surface scanner which works alongside a basic discovery scanner, as it doesn't make sense that a basic scanner would allow you to see all of the planets that far away.
Either that, or again, thinking logically:
With the planet view currently it's like having a god view of the system, a camera that can reorder the planets to be observable in a list type structure.
The most sense to me would be, upon entering a system, you do a basic discovery scanner to reveal the bugged version of the planets (Hollowed out) and then fire out probes from your ship (You can be stationary at the star) and they will go and 'observe' the planets for you, my thinking is that the surface map looks to represent you observing the planet from a high orbital view, a probe/drone/limpet w/e seems to make the most sense.

 

[NuGundam]

Keep the system as it is, please.

This seems to be the best balance between usefulness of each type and grade of scan, payouts, and incremental data revealed about bodies.

 

[londonx]

Thanks Sandro - well spoken.

My tuppence worth. I see it as the big honk reveals the basic information such as size, orbital information and the like, and this, in conjunction with honk return data (a sort of ping I suppose), would reveal such information as Water world, ice world, rocky, metallic, etc. The detailed surface scanner does what it says and reveals - surface detail which would include analysis of materials and possible POI's such as geysers or other geological interests. From the basic scan explorers can make an informed decision about whether or not to proceed with a detail scan. 90% of planets are not worth detail scanning and if they don't have the information available to them after a basic scan then I doubt that they would bother with exploration at all.

I agree with this but I also acknowledge that this might interfere with more instant styles of play, which as we consider the future it is set in is also just as realistic.

Therefore I propose that a System Navigation beacon scan can reveal all planet surface details and also you should be able to purchase system map data with planet surface detail data if they have been visited before. This sort of easily attainable survey detail makes sense inside the bubble. The reward for going the manual tiered scanning route is monetary just like the System scanning is currently. So if you want to make money from scanning and exploring even inside the bubble the tiered scan approach makes perfect sense. Maybe up the reward for planet surface scan data, the lore could be that people will always be willing to pay for up-to-date information.

 

[Eggplant!]

Hi Sandro!

I'm quite a fan of the idea floating around that the different scanners should get you different details on the systems map. Advanced giving you full detail, and basic giving you what is current considered a bug in the beta.

Alternatively, I'd be okay with the idea that a surface scan is required for full planet detail, but I think the distance at which a surface scanner works needs to be much longer. As it is, you have to get so far into the gravity well of a planet to surface scan it make scanning an entire system incredibly tedious. If I had a slider, I'd move it to taking more time to scan, but working at a longer distance. Maybe even (gasp!) add a mini game!

 

[jgm]

I'm quite a fan of the idea floating around that the different scanners should get you different details on the systems map. Advanced giving you full detail, and basic giving you what is current considered a bug in the beta.

And if this was the case would you ever use anything other than the advanced scanner?

 

[Cocalarix]

Sandro, have you guys considered the in-system mini-jumps between very distant stars?

That is one of the biggest time sink for exploration currently.

As for scanning, I think the current implementation (minus the bugged black balls) is perfectly fine.

 

[Kietrax]

Hi Sandro,

Haven't had time to read the whole thread yet so apologies if this has already come up. I think requiring a DSS to find the details of a planets surface definitely makes sense - it's what the name says after all! That said, since it looks like the DSS is going to be more important now to discover all there is to know about a system, might it be possible to introduce some new modules that are class 2 in size that combine the BDS/IDS/ADS with a DSS? or a module that allows you to fit two class 1 modules into a class 2 slot, much like the vehicle hangers have slots for SRVs? This would also have the advantage of making the DBX more useful as an explorer again as it frees up a slot which it is missing today since the introduction of Horizons.

Regards,

CMDR Kietrax

 

[K-Rose]

And if this was the case would you ever use anything other than the advanced scanner?

This is a non-argument.

If you can use a 6A SCB, do you use a 6B or a 6C?

If you can use a 2G planetary hanger, do you use a 2H?

The only modules that get used commonly are D & A. All others are used because of the limit in cost.

 

[londonx]

I would suggest keeping the system as it is but add more functionality to the detailed discovery sensor. The detailed sensor could reveal the general location of POIs. Not the specific location, though, to keep it interesting. Maybe the scan could give us an area in which we can search for things. The POIs could be anything and could be build upon in the future. For starters, the detailed scan could reveal:

• Regions of tectonic activity
• Geysers, volcanos
• Settlements
• Current POIs
• Anomalies
• Material deposits (this would improve the mining and material collection gameplay, e.g. for engineers)
• Everytime you guys add something to planet surfaces, you could include it as a signal for the detailed scan.

Hope this helps! Best of luck guys and keep up the good work

The POI level of detail could be another tier of scan, an Orbital Cruise scan where you fire a beam as you pass over the surface in current visual range and as you travel maybe under a certain speed limit and height, much higher than the current POI 2km pass, you gather POI area details on the surface, a couple of loops of the planet should be sufficient to scan most of the surface. Different categories of POIs and accuracy could be gained from different models of scanners.

For geological surveys, maybe for anticipating future mining, probes could be fired into the ground at promising geological points, or more practically at points suggested by the initial POI scan. Success could depend on a decent penetration of the probe requiring some sort of flying skill and aim.

This could all still be within the confines of the current instance spawning mechanic but with such a higher level scan of the surface revealing the locations of multiple areas of POIs and their categories (unknown artifact, activity detected, natural artifact etc) would give more a feeling of purpose and connection with the planet. It would still require a low level under 2km fly by and SRV scan to hunt precise location if the item is not large enough for distant visual identification.

 

[Truebadour]

TL;DR : Same as current beta, because to me it sounds like the most sensible approach gameplay-wise.

I think the Discovery Scanner should reveal the main characteristics of a body, like basic elevation mapping (as it currently does in Beta), gravity, orbital period, type of volcanism...

The Surface scanner should then reveal the detailed elevation mapping (surface map), mineral composition, areas showing high volcanic activity (I know it's not coming with the 2.2 release, but it seems like a reasonable feature). The introduction of "Unindentified Planetary Signals" would be nice too : similar to USS gameplay-wise, scanning them would reveal "artificial structures", "intense volcanism", "telecommunications"... while using the same UI and animations as the "surface recovery" missions.

 

[Noogillim]

A few possibles

Unknown system no honk star with no planets.
Basic unknown system honk a 2D representation could be brought up

Effectively what is in 2.1

A known system in the ships database previously scanned by others or part of the purchasable system data at various system bases or Nav beacon, then 3D representation of the known planets in that system if said data was already scanned to that level of detail.

Using a detailed surface scanner on an unknown or basic scanned planet gives all 3D and Base data on said planet along with materials etc.


Ie a logical progression of known/unknown and basic or detailed scans and purchased data.

Ie a logical graduation between 2.1 and 2.2 levels and in keeping with what scanners were used.

Purchased data could have price differentials between basic and detailed scanned data.

You get extra reward for detailed surface scans so that could be passed on through the to recuperate costs for those that don't want the detailed surface scanner yet want the details.

 

[MyklAtrum]

I would suggest keeping the system as it is but add more functionality to the detailed discovery sensor. The detailed sensor could reveal the general location of POIs. Not the specific location, though, to keep it interesting. Maybe the scan could give us an area in which we can search for things. The POIs could be anything and could be build upon in the future. For starters, the detailed scan could reveal:

• Regions of tectonic activity
• Geysers, volcanos
• Settlements
• Current POIs
• Anomalies
• Material deposits (this would improve the mining and material collection gameplay, e.g. for engineers)
• Everytime you guys add something to planet surfaces, you could include it as a signal for the detailed scan.

Hope this helps! Best of luck guys and keep up the good work

I like this idea. A lot of people seem to be unhappy with having to scan the with DSS to get the surface map. If we get surface maps with the ADS, however, then we will only be scanning the surface for extra credits. It becomes pretty boring either way in reality. I'd much rather we get an improved DSS either way this feature goes. If scanning the surface gave us more information than just extra credits and a surface map, then it becomes almost necessary to scan it for both sides of the argument. More science please.

 

[Ziljan]

I think there are solutions where we can all get our scanner types with different scanner models. There is no need to try to "win" here. We can all win if we work together to find a good suite of options that works for everyone.

 

[Mithos09]

Surfaces in range of the discovery scanner should be revealed on honk if the ship is equipped with a detailed surface scanner. If no DSS is equipped, blend all colours of the surface to one for the planet on the system map and show the sphere grid in surface view. You can also reveal the surface of a planet without a DSS by scanning it within 1-10ls.

 

[jessecrosswhite]

Leaving the planets as blank spheres in the system map looks really ugly. In reality we can tell what color Jupiter is without having to fly there. I think the current flow where you get basic information from the advanced discovery scanner works. if anything the planter scanner needs to be more powerful - maybe some hint to where to find materials on the surface or the location of crass sites so it is really worth the slot it takes up.

 

[Lunchmoney]

So please feel free to make suggestions for improvements (in this thread would be a good place to pop them) and to let us know what you think of the current implementation.

Orrery view after a system scan.

 

[Bruce Warren]

I'd leave the basic scanner/ADS scanner as they are. As others have said if it was necessary to use the advanced scanner to get planet info no one would ever buy the basic one.

That said I like the idea of a planetary scan being necessary to get the surface view but I can't help feeling there should be a more of difference between a detailed surface scan and a regular surface scan.

Perhaps if the basic planetary scan only made a very rough image of the planet show up. Something like the detailed image but at a noticeably lower resolution.

 

[Kietrax]

...
If you can use a 6A SCB, do you use a 6B or a 6C?

If you can use a 2G planetary hanger, do you use a 2H?
...

Err, SCB's, yes - the B grade have more uses vs. the A so are often used in preference. And for the vehicle hangers then there is also an argument for using H as the reduced power draw can allow you to run a smaller power plant in some builds which can more than offset the increased mass of the H vs. G hanger. And that is without considering the massive cost jump from B to A for most modules ...

 

[K-Rose]

I like this idea. A lot of people seem to be unhappy with having to scan the with DSS to get the surface map. If we get surface maps with the ADS, however, then we will only be scanning the surface for extra credits. It becomes pretty boring either way in reality. I'd much rather we get an improved DSS either way this feature goes. If scanning the surface gave us more information than just extra credits and a surface map, then it becomes almost necessary to scan it for both sides of the argument. More science please.

Yeah, it'd be great if the DSS gave us this (obligatory original concept gif):

Come on Sandro, you know it'd be awesome to show us. It doesn't have to loads be on every planet (like NMS). Just 1 or 2 every third system would be enough! Maybe if it showed geisers and stuff too

 

[CmdrJacks]

I don't get the logic of "we have telescopes why cant we see full terrain from a distance?"

At best you could only see half the planet, the half which is facing you at the time of looking/scanning. Realistically mapping a surface in short order would require a polar orbit plus enough time for the planet to rotate under you in order to reveal the full surface. I'm not suggesting this as a good gameplay mechanic as it could take months of real time to scan a single body, I'm just saying I don't get the logic of the "telescope" argument.

Personally I'd probably like to see a probe based scan being required for surface maps. So you might get a different number of available probes from the three types of discovery scanner which can be launched toward bodies for quick map generation, but they would be easily synthesisable when restock is required. I'd suggest that the probes are able to travel much quicker (x100?) than ships, enabling you to reveal surface maps from a distance and then the DSS could be used close range to reveal regions of mineral densities or surface anomalies (POIs). If you don't have any discovery scanners then you could reveal the map the manual way, by getting close and doing a basic surface scan (I'd prefer this to be generated in orbit rather than pointing the nose at the body). I think this, or something similar, could satisfy gameplay and immersion.