2.2 Building the Neutron Highway Grid

[Toumal]

Successfully travelled to Polo Harbour not quite 83mins though, I think it took about the same time as if I had used conventional jumps. I may be able to get faster with practice.

That's the main issue here, really. The number of jumps is by half, but the total travel time not that much. In my travel to colonia, 1000ly took about 22 minutes, so 45 ly per minute. Erimus flew 4800ly in 83 minutes, so 1000ly in 17 minutes or 57ly/minute. And that's with manual intervention required before each boost jump.
Me? I set up a lap of 1000ly and don't need to touch the galmap inbetween except to check for a string of non-KGBFOAM stars every now and then. But you gotta do that in any case.

Add risk, but cut the travel time in half.

 

[marx]

That's the main issue here, really. The number of jumps is by half, but the total travel time not that much. In my travel to colonia, 1000ly took about 22 minutes, so 45 ly per minute. Erimus flew 4800ly in 83 minutes, so 1000ly in 17 minutes or 57ly/minute. And that's with manual intervention required before each boost jump.
Me? I set up a lap of 1000ly and don't need to touch the galmap inbetween except to check for a string of non-KGBFOAM stars every now and then. But you gotta do that in any case.

Add risk, but cut the travel time in half.

With a bit of practice and sufficiently high density in the neutron fields, I think you can do less than half travel time. No less than a third though. But for that, you add considerable risk, and you'll only be travelling, and doing much less exploration.
However, neutron star boosting is much less automatic and monotonuos than the "scoop star, hit scanner, check system map, turn to destination, jump" routine. Although I'm pretty sure that given time, it could well become routine as well.

Oh, and with 2.2, you can now set your route planner to only use KGBFOAM stars, so you needn't even bother checking for non-scoopables. I still like to leave it on unfiltered though, on the off chance that I stumble across an exotic system. After all, the game does tell you now what class the star you're jumping to is.

 

[SushiCW]

That's the main issue here, really. The number of jumps is by half, but the total travel time not that much. In my travel to colonia, 1000ly took about 22 minutes, so 45 ly per minute. Erimus flew 4800ly in 83 minutes, so 1000ly in 17 minutes or 57ly/minute. And that's with manual intervention required before each boost jump.
Me? I set up a lap of 1000ly and don't need to touch the galmap inbetween except to check for a string of non-KGBFOAM stars every now and then. But you gotta do that in any case.

Add risk, but cut the travel time in half.

And he did so in a 33 LY ship. Don't forget the huge difference in base range when doing the comparison! Roughly scaling your 1000ly time to his jump range (22 * 45/33) gives 30 minutes, darn close to the "cut the travel time in half" you cited as the ideal.

 

[Toumal]

And he did so in a 33 LY ship. Don't forget the huge difference in base range when doing the comparison! Roughly scaling your 1000ly time to his jump range (22 * 45/33) gives 30 minutes, darn close to the "cut the travel time in half" you cited as the ideal.

Mine had a hair over 34ly jump range. My comparison is pretty sound.

 

[SushiCW]

Mine had a hair over 34ly jump range. My comparison is pretty sound.

My bad, I misread your post and somehow read "45 ly per minute" as 45 ly range.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I think we need to move away form the time comparison thing with these predefined highways. There are just far too many variables to take into account - most notably, everyone has their own way of conducting the 'fast travel' routines, and some are incredibly efficient at it.. (i.e. pro-buckballers), and some are methodically cautions, so not as fast. I consider myself somewhere in between, and probably fall into the 'average Joe' category when it comes to travel times.

Even with the small samples of data I've received from players running these routes, its already apparent that the results are going to vary greatly between individuals.

I know for a fact that I cannot fly 4,800 LYs in a 33 LY ship in 83 minutes via conventional means, even with the route planner doing all the optimizations for me. So for me personally, the theory of players charting, optimizing, and sharing their routes is sound. I no longer need to convince anyone of its potential. I know it works as envisioned if the routes are pre-charted and optimized for those that will eventually use them afterwards. Its now a matter of practice, routine, and confidence, and I'm pretty sure people will improve their neutron travel techniques (and the times associated with 'plotting & hopping').


For the reasons I've mentioned, it would be much more constructive and far less controversial if people began referring to the routes via the number of jumps they save over the conventional travel method. If the number of jumps saved is small, then the time saved may be negligible, if at all - over longer stretches the opposite should be true. Doing it like that, at a glance you should be able to gauge the benefits of each route against your own experiences of what's worked for you, against what hasn't.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Hi Erimus,

I have just completed the Dangerous Tour around Colonia space.

It is made up of Neutron Stars and Black holes, and I am linking it here as away for you to connect into the Neutron Highway grid if any connect at the Colonia end.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vr2naZOrJS0pmgeo3K_wzWueAP0jtGWH6_I1ACHnloM/edit#gid=0

Great stiff Wishblend

Can you fill the details in using this as an example, and I'll add it to the OP [up]

Route Name : ?
Direct Distance : ?
Type of ship used to chart the route : ?
Route is optimized for : ? Light Year Ship
Jumps : ?
Estimated number of Jumps required via conventional travel for this ship range : ?
Number of Neutron Jumps : ?
Number of intermediate regular Jumps : ?
Route charted by : ?

 

[Toumal]

Erimus, no offense, but your statement about not comparing total time taken doesn't make a lot of sense.

Imagine for a moment that there'd be a way to do microjumps in rapid succession, much shorter distances but at much greater speed. Let's further assume that these microjumps take the same overall amount of time, but are more automated and take less effort than regular jumps. Who in their right mind would then say that these microjumps are worse than normal jumps just based on the total numerical count of jumps?

Vice versa, we now have a mechanism that halves the jump count, but the time reduction is much less pronounced. I'd say your video looked like you were quite proficient, you dallied much less than I did when traveling to Colonia. And despite you expedient operations, the time savings are hardly worth the extra risk.

I agree that results may vary of course. Worse, expectations vary! Some people are just looking for a mild upgrade, others want the time it takes to get to colonia halved. Also, it should be noted that FSD boost would be a lot more efficient if the route planned would take it into account automatically. Perhaps the least controversial improvement could be done there, by making the current boost work more effectively by improving the route planner to the point where an FSD boost doesn't require you to access the galaxy map anymore. If you boost your FSD, it should just replot, with the first jump using the max upgraded range.

 

[Willa Allason]

I just wanted to thank you superstars for this work. My Conda is a third of the way to Colonia on its mission to document terraformable and colonizable planets for fun and profit (and farm Neutrons to get from Pioneer to Elite status), but my enthusiasm for the trip was seriously waning. This will vastly improve my QoL and let me experience all that 2.2 has to offer much sooner.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

OP updated with the Sacaqawea Space Port to Gagarin Gate highway.

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I just wanted to thank you superstars for this work. My Conda is a third of the way to Colonia on its mission to document terraformable and colonizable planets for fun and profit (and farm Neutrons to get from Pioneer to Elite status), but my enthusiasm for the trip was seriously waning. This will vastly improve my QoL and let me experience all that 2.2 has to offer much sooner.

+1

 

[Mengy]

I think we need to move away form the time comparison thing with these predefined highways. There are just far too many variables to take into account - most notably, everyone has their own way of conducting the 'fast travel' routines, and some are incredibly efficient at it.. (i.e. pro-buckballers), and some are methodically cautions, so not as fast. I consider myself somewhere in between, and probably fall into the 'average Joe' category when it comes to travel times.

I’m not sure I agree with that, I feel that the time comparisons are very productive and worth talking about. There were two distinct goals that the majority of explorers wanted the starburst to achieve:

1. Make traveling through deep space more fun and interactive
2. Make traveling through deep space faster to some measurable degree as a trade off for the added risk

Now, I do admit that comparing leisurely voyages where you stop to scan along the way really isn’t helpful to the science of it all, but comparing commanders who push the FSD to the grindstone to see how fast they can travel, like your very own report Erimus, those reports are very valuable IMHO.

I think we all can admit that this new mechanics is more fun than simply jonking, it requires much more planning, piloting, and engagement, so it certainly seems to have accomplished goal #1. As to whether or not it is faster, I feel like it is definitely a bit faster AS LONG AS you plan thoroughly and fly carefully. Personally I feel like the boost could stand being more like 350-400% as the current amount leaves a very small margin for error or you end up actually traveling slower. The margin could be a little more tolerable IMHO, but it’s real close to being just about right.

I will be heading out to Colonia soon and I plan on traveling the neutron highway as much as possible while also measuring like a maniac. I want to see just how far I can push this. You know, out of a purely scientific curiosity point of view.

 

[marx]

First off, @ Erimus: I'm on the last stretch of the Sol->Colonia route, so going from Polo Harbour to Jaques. Even if the routes were mostly just "dip down to -1000 ly, come back up near the nebulae", would you still like me to submit them, or would they no longer be useful at this point?

Second,

I think we all can admit that this new mechanics is more fun than simply jonking, it requires much more planning, piloting, and engagement, so it certainly seems to have accomplished goal #1. As to whether or not it is faster, I feel like it is definitely a bit faster AS LONG AS you plan thoroughly and fly carefully. Personally I feel like the boost could stand being more like 350-400% as the current amount leaves a very small margin for error or you end up actually traveling slower. The margin could be a little more tolerable IMHO, but it’s real close to being just about right.

There's also that it's definitely faster if you fly along a pre-planned route. For example, on your second way through, or just taking any of the routes written up above. Personally, I think that a +100% bonus to the current (so +400% instead of +300%) would be perfect, but even this is nice.

Also, a tip for plotting jumps that worked for myself: instead of plotting jumps that will be near your boosted range, plot ones that would be around 75-80% of it instead. (For example, if your boosted range is 160 ly, go with 120 ly.) That way, you save a considerable amount of fuel, and can chain more NS jumps without having to stop for fuel somewhere.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Personally I feel like the boost could stand being more like 350-400% as the current amount leaves a very small margin for error or you end up actually traveling slower. The margin could be a little more tolerable IMHO, but it’s real close to being just about right.

I don't disagree with that. And I think you've raised an important issue. The margin of error (in regard to inefficiency) is small. At the moment the mechanic is new, people are still getting to grips with it. Give them time and lets see how proficient folks are in a month or two. But in saying that, yes a slight increase in boost would be welcome to widen that margin of error a little without removing any semblance of pre-planning and thinking from the whole thing. Some naysayers during beta were campaigning for a x10 boost! Which to me is completely over the top.

There's some suggestions on the OP for the attention of FD, if they're still interested in feedback. Those ideas have come from players who've taken part in this project and also from the beta feedback thread. To me, they're an alternative way to approach this than arbitrarily increasing boost distance by x10.

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First off, @ Erimus: I'm on the last stretch of the Sol->Colonia route, so going from Polo Harbour to Jaques. Even if the routes were mostly just "dip down to -1000 ly, come back up near the nebulae", would you still like me to submit them, or would they no longer be useful at this point?.

Cheers marx

I think at this point, unless it can shave some jumps off the current routes and optimize them further, its probably better to begin charting new and different routes to other POIs/places.

 

[Mengy]

Some naysayers during beta were campaigning for a x10 boost! Which to me is completely over the top.

I'm actually okay with a 10X boost, in fact I'd kind of rather prefer it, as long as it was coupled with a much MUCH longer charge time inside the neutron wake. I'm talking like a few minutes of sitting inside the wake taking damage, followed by repairs to most / all modules, and then followed by the 10X boost. I'd like for the AFMU's to get more usage during travel, and while the current starburst mechanic does make you eventually have to use the AFMU it's still a rather small amount of usage. Larger but much more damaging boosts would make deep space explorers need to regularly restock the AFMU ammo, which in turn forces them down to the surface to gather mats, etc. I just think it's a better gameplay loop, and as long as you balance the time vs distance properly it wouldn't be any more unbalancing than the current mechanic is, just a ton more interactive.

But, Frontier's implementation is still a great improvement!

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I'm actually okay with a 10X boost, in fact I'd kind of rather prefer it, as long as it was coupled with a much MUCH longer charge time inside the neutron wake. I'm talking like a few minutes of sitting inside the wake taking damage, followed by repairs to most / all modules, and then followed by the 10X boost. I'd like for the AFMU's to get more usage during travel, and while the current starburst mechanic does make you eventually have to use the AFMU it's still a rather small amount of usage. Larger but much more damaging boosts would make deep space explorers need to regularly restock the AFMU ammo, which in turn forces them down to the surface to gather mats, etc. I just think it's a better gameplay loop, and as long as you balance the time vs distance properly it wouldn't be any more unbalancing than the current mechanic is, just a ton more interactive.

But, Frontier's implementation is still a great improvement!

+1

Its a pity the boost distance isn't dependent on the time spent in the jet supercharging, and taking module damage while doing it. The longer you risk it, the bigger the boost you'll get. But with possibly some sort of skill involved though, maybe involving attempting to ride the jet a little smoother, which help cuts down on mod damage.

Would have solved a lot of these issues and made for a bona fide skill v risk v reward mechanic

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

I'm going to Colonia myself and i tryed few NS charged jumps. I also made some math.

My 2 cents are that indeed the number of jumps to cover a KLY is halved or better, if you superoptimize can be closer to 1/3 of the route plotter.

This beeing said it is true that if it is time efficient or not depends much on your flying skills, and also on the ship you are flying.

With my 54 LY Anaconda, 1000LY would take 19 jumps with the route plotter, while using a NS route it would need 6 or 7. But since the Anaconda manuevers like a falling brick, and i am on the super safe side, getting those NS charges takes a lot of time, so in this particular case i think the route plotter is faster. Also since I have to refuel every 2 jumps, I have to bookmark a lot of sequence stars in the route to refuel, or i have to make suboptimized jumps to save fuel, but after 2 or 3 NS i have to stop by a sequnce star anyway.

With this i don't want to mean that in my opinion the NS highway is not good. On the contrary I think that if you want to bring an AGILE ship to Colonia, that has low jumprange, NS highway is going to speed it up. And above all, if times are almost the same, would you prefear to do an ocean of hink-jumping, or 1/3 of an ocean of jumps, but with an interesting gameplay mechanic that keeps you entertained?

Since in Colonia there are stations, eventually many players that are not billionaire would want to fly their not explorer ships up there, and an Highway that makes you save some time, or at least amkes the trip entertaining, is surealy super good.
So thanks to Erimus and all the others that have put efforts in findings these highwways and trailblazing them.

 

[Rewision]

Anyone have a good visual representation of the density in the neutron fields? I noticed that it seemed alot denser on the left side of the galaxy then on the right? Did not check far to the right but was a few thousend light years more sparse findings of NS to the right of -1000 give or take a few hundred (SOL to the south).

Checked something fast and might be more of a low density corridor from about -1000 to +1000. (this is from VERY limited observation so might not be true except the areas I have checked).

 

[Wishblend]

Great stiff Wishblend

Can you fill the details in using this as an example, and I'll add it to the OP [up]

Route Name : ?
Direct Distance : ?
Type of ship used to chart the route : ?
Route is optimized for : ? Light Year Ship
Jumps : ?
Estimated number of Jumps required via conventional travel for this ship range : ?
Number of Neutron Jumps : ?
Number of intermediate regular Jumps : ?
Route charted by : ?

I will do, once I have fully optimised it and have the requested data.

I am slightly changing the route as I have found another neutron star in one of my systems.

 

[Jadarin]

Optimized the Hurt Highway a bit. Now at 85 jumps, almost all are less than 300ly apart, allows for SC -> regular -> SC (repeat) the whole way. Also entered it into EDSM: https://www.edsm.net/galactic-routes/show/id/319/name/Smuggles+Airways

 

[Mengy]

Optimized the Hurt Highway a bit. Now at 85 jumps, almost all are less than 300ly apart, allows for SC -> regular -> SC (repeat) the whole way. Also entered it into EDSM: https://www.edsm.net/galactic-routes/show/id/319/name/Smuggles+Airways

Excellent, this is actually the route I'm planning on taking to Colonia.

Its a pity the boost distance isn't dependent on the time spent in the jet supercharging, and taking module damage while doing it. The longer you risk it, the bigger the boost you'll get.

What I'd absolutely love to see Frontier do next with this mechanic is allow one of the engineers to give us a Fuel Scoop mod that triples the NS boost. Of course I'd like it to take much longer to charge while also causing damage to every module on the ship, thusly getting to my concept up above. This way a commander could either keep the "safer" 300% boost we have now or mod the scoop for greater gains but higher risk.

But, that's all just wishlist talk of course.