Do you care about preventing combat logging?

[Leo Sagan]

I don't know, 29% of the player base* seems pretty significant to me.

I agree. But you have to keep in mind that some people (myself included and actually probably A LOT OF PEOPLE) thought that it was more like 50/50 PVP/PVE. At best. To them, it changes EVERYTHING.

*If we take this poll to represent all players.

I'm even afraid to say it , but ... we need a poll here

 

[Truesilver]

To the guy who wrote this: The member list of these forums is more than 7500 pages long and you are trolling us about "most users" here just in order to make your point with baseless assumptions?

I must really dispute the "baseless" part.

One of the most repeated assertions on these forums forever has been the refrain, "Why do you care? You're not competing with anyone when you play ED."

I'm sorry for making a blanket assertion but I'm going not just from the results of this poll but also so many other threads on this topic and also historic debates right back to the whole 'offline mode' debate.

It's increasingly clear to me that the reason many (I'll say, "many", not "most" this time) contributors to these forums don't "get" things like combat logging is because they are not participating in any form of competition via the game at all.

Which is cool - but some of us are (or have been). And a lot of ED is now based on competition - witness 1.3 Powerplay and 1.4 Player Group BGS factions, for example.

What I'm saying is that there's a disconnect between those not actively participating in competition and those who are. The Devs see and cater to both. The competitive are aware of the non-competitive.

But I'm afraid I wonder how many of the "lone wolves" non-competitive out there - who are probably the majority on here - are aware of the struggles of player groups at all.

If they were aware, they probably would understand why people care about things like combat logging.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If they were aware, they probably would understand why people care about things like combat logging.

Only players can combat log. The BGS is manipulated via NPC's. Shooting players has no effect other than on the players in your mode and in your instance at that very moment.

 

[Mercy Killing]

As I've only ever played and will only ever play in solo mode, I don't really care about combat logging, no.

 

[Truesilver]

Only players can combat log. The BGS is manipulated via NPC's. Shooting players has no effect other than on the players in your mode and in your instance at that very moment.

Asp mate, once again the problem is that I would have to write ten pages to go through all this stuff. We're talking about things you haven't been on the receiving end of because (afaik) you've not been in serious player group warfare.

Sigh

OK, to get you started, what some player groups used to do (I hear) is recruit relative newbies, and use them in swarm tactics against stations in Private Group - telling them to log whenever the heat from the NPC cops got too much.

Basically via a player-meta tactic of lots of weak ships, lots of logging, they were able to fast track the killing of NPC authority ships spawning by the station. Hence tanking their rivals' influence double-quick time.

Task-kill in PG being a part of the plan, you get me?

That's just one example.

I could go on, for 10 pages.

In BGS wars, margins matter. The same for swarm tactics and logging in CZ's, again in PG.

And this is before we even get to Open.

This immortality cheating strikes at the heart of a direct or indirect multi-player competitive game.

It is just cheating to gain a competitive advantage.

 

[Faybs]

Asp mate, once again the problem is that I would have to write ten pages to go through all this stuff. We're talking about things you haven't been on the receiving end of because (afaik) you've not been in serious player group warfare.

Sigh

OK, to get you started, what some player groups used to do (I hear) is recruit relative newbies, and use them in swarm tactics against stations in Private Group - telling them to log whenever the heat from the NPC cops got too much.

Basically via a player-meta tactic of lots of weak ships, lots of logging, they were able to fast track the killing of NPC authority ships spawning by the station. Hence tanking their rivals' influence double-quick time.

Task-kill in PG being a part of the plan, you get me?

That's just one example.

I could go on, for 10 pages.

In BGS wars, margins matter. The same for swarm tactics and logging in CZ's, again in PG.

And this is before we even get to Open.

This immortality cheating strikes at the heart of a direct or indirect multi-player competitive game.

It is just cheating to gain a competitive advantage.

Your example is fair enough, but even if CL were blocked by some technological means you can the exact same effect by putting those newbies in suicide freewinders; the end effect is the same because NPCs killing PCs does not affect the BGS, it's only the other way around.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

This immortality cheating strikes at the heart of a direct or indirect multi-player competitive game.

Ah. The kind of game I do not wish to play, but am stuck with the Psycho NPC's from.

 

[Asp Explorer]

That only matters to players interested in a multiplayer competitive game - and Elite is only one if a player chooses to make it so.

Meta will be used by anyone if there is an advantage to doing so. If you are playing competitively, does it not make more sense to research a better meta and out meta the other guys?

 

[Argus Leadhead]

I appreciate some will probably find this an odd point of view but... I don't usually play in open (although I have done) but do feel strongly about the issue.

The fact is, it's cheating, there's no getting around that. Exiting via the menu is fine, lame but fine according to the rules of the game, but actual combat logging (pulling the cable, killing the process or any other form of ungraceful exit) is the absolute epitome of lameness.

The game provides one mode in which players will never have to deal with pvp and another in which it can usually be avoided if all members of the private group agree to it. If players are going to play in open they have to accept that with that choice come risks as well as benefits. The benefits are the possibility of increased social interaction, winging up to fight in CZs, mine etc more effectively. The risks are that someone might want to stop you from doing that.

In the occasions that I have played in open I've seen people try to interdict me but have always been able to avoid it. Usually I've not been flying a combat spec ship, in fact a lot of the time I will have been in a ship with no weapons. If I get interdicted in one of those, I'll take my medicine.

In short, accept the risk, fly with insurance and don't be a scrub, or get into solo where the specific risk is removed for you. Just don't try to have the best of both worlds.

This, basically.

Anything can happen in open mode. If you don't want the possibility of being killed by another player, there are two modes in which to play that allow for the risk of PvP combat to be completely removed.

+1 Red

 

[Truesilver]

That only matters to players interested in a multiplayer competitive game - and Elite is only one if a player chooses to make it so.

Meta will be used by anyone if there is an advantage to doing so. If you are playing competitively, does it not make more sense to research a better meta and out meta the other guys?

It makes sense simultaneously to devise new ways to win, within the rules, and at the same time to lobby the referee for stronger enforcement of the existing rules...

But you see this is the point I was making in my post no.270 on p.18 - the disconnect on the forums is between those who do play competitively (in some way, shape or form, direct or indirect) and those who don't.

The latter are I think barely aware that the former even exist, at times.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

That only matters to players interested in a multiplayer competitive game - and Elite is only one if a player chooses to make it so.

Meta will be used by anyone if there is an advantage to doing so. If you are playing competitively, does it not make more sense to research a better meta and out meta the other guys?

I wish Frontier would bring back the heat meta. I only just got finished modding my Python with three large, gimballed Thermal Conduit beam lasers. It's basically a death star once it heats up enough.

 

[Chrystoph]

If I CL rather than let you get the kill, your Combat rank is negatively affected because it should, but didn't, have increased by 1 kill.

Failing math, logic AND grammar in school, are we?

 

[crushdepth]

Thank God we have another combat logging thread

No, I don't care. I don't shoot other players if I can avoid it.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I don't care - I don't PvP in the first place as PvP in ED is entirely pointless and thus stick to solo.

I'd consider it impolite if done in open because you're wasting other peoples time. Why play in open if you're going to combat log anyway?

 

[Luniticisi]

So do you even play the game or are you wilfully not mentioning PvP piracy for the sake of it? I'm surprised you didn't mention all PvPers are evil psychopaths tbh.

Once upon a time people didn't think of slavery as a massive issue. Or in other words: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I don't care about PvPers as I don't play in Open .. But to bring in slavery to compare to a computer game??? .. well done.

 

[Sandmann]

Polling a PvE heavy forum... what's the point .-.?

You can stop singing that song now, noone's buying what you're selling. It's been shown time and time again that the forum is representative of the player base, so your complaint is really that we're polling a pve heavy playerbase in a pve heavy game. Get over it, you REALLY are in the 30%.

 

[Ozram]

Must say, the more my SLF pilot ranks up the less qualms I have about combat logging. There's no way I'm giving up my hard earned, "Dangerous" NPC that has already earned around 30 million off me.

 

[Sandmann]

So then pretty much everyone would have a high baseline then, right? You just level set a bit higher. Problem solved.

If you're DCing 80% of the time you're in combat, that's a problem.

Not really. Combat is a lot more taxing on the network than just flying around... particularly if there's more than two combattants.

Now, if you're "disconnecting" a lot in pvp combat but not in res sites, or not when you're in a.wing of four attacking a lone player.THAT would be telling.

 

[dom eht]

Yes, it's another poll, coz we all love polls, right? The title says it all.

Yes, combat logging is against the rules - no argument. This is not a thread about changing that. I'm just wondering how many players actually give a damn about it, or who have their game negativley impacted by it. Or even if it doesn't impact your game directly but you still feel strongly that it should be enforced more than it already is (or isn't).

Personally it doesn't impact me and I really don't get why it bothers people. If I were interested in PvP I'd consider combat logging to be a win anyway. Your mileage may differ, of course.

So... who cares? Stand up and be counted.

Clarifications:
- Combat logging IS cheating - there is a rule that says so. That is not disputed.
- Logging out through the menus is legal as has been stated clearly by the devs.
- Combat logging is probably very difficult if not impossible to prevent entirely. This is not a call to enforce i,t NOR is it a call to abandon it. I'm simply curious as to if you CARE about combat logging.

i made an account just to vote, combat logging a problem , its a good defense against greifers , so i think its just

 

[Truesilver]

You can stop singing that song now, noone's buying what you're selling. It's been shown time and time again that the forum is representative of the player base, so your complaint is really that we're polling a pve heavy playerbase in a pve heavy game. Get over it, you REALLY are in the 30%.

This is really the entire problem with this kind of poll, though, isn't it?

The game is based around a wide variety of activities.

Most players are not interested in any given one, because there are many activities.

Combat logging is a problem that (predominantly, not entirely) affects PvP.

If we ran separate polls about an aspect of mining, an aspect of A-B trading, an aspect of Powerplay, an aspect of smuggling, an aspect of exploration ...

... 70% would say they were not interested in each problem.