Do you care about preventing combat logging?

[Sandmann]

It's a sandbox .-. Also the logic stands that not many people on this forum cares about PvP, which is what combat logging affects the most. Consequently, not a lot of people care on this forum no matter the severity of the issue. My point stands .-.

Point? What point? You've shown that the majority of players here support pve. Whether you like it or not the majority of the game is aimed at pve. Your IMPLICATION is that the forum is not representative of the playerbase and that thus any opinions expressed by the forum are biased, but the basic premise of your argument has been disproven several times now.

You really need to move.on GF. If PvE others you THAT much there's plenty of PvP heavy (or even exclusive) games out there - this aint one of them, and.so attitudes toward CLing here are pertinant.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Did you know that on Xbox before there were any ganker groups there were still combat loggers?

Evidence?

 

[Sandmann]

I do, because I like consistency and facing consequences. I know technical difficulties, but FD somehow finds way to implement it, I will be first to applaud to that effort.

That's a reason (and a very good one IMHO) for YOU to not CL, but the question was more if you care about preventing anyone else from doing it if they so wish?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Much of the problem with the forum dwellers on this board is they refuse to respect any other playstyle than their own and shout down anyone who thinks differently from the PvE hive mind.

This is the forum that cried up a tsunami over 2.1 NPCs..

So let me get this straight... when the majority of people don't enjoy something you like and want to inflict on them, they're a "hive mind" and unable to think for themselves? Are you REALLY insulting the vast majority of players by calling them unintelligent for having their own opinions?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I sometimes wonder why you're still here actually

*Chuckles in the background*

Very good point this, since there seems to be very little he actually enjoys in game and seems to prefer a game with heavy pvp.

 

[TomP]

I don't combat log. I play in Open Mode, I just don't do it. I sometimes kill the game if a bug is killing me: stuck in going into super cruise and massively overheating. Yes, this happens. But I don't log if against players or legitimate game mechanics: for example, getting caught while wanted at a station. Logging off when things don't go your way is just cheating.

But, and it's a very big but, that is your choice. It is not my choice.

I don't give a flying [expurgated] if anybody else combat logs on players or NPC's, but I reserve the right to call it as I see it: pathetic.

So my answer is no, I don't care. But I have zero respect for those who do it.

 

[Sandmann]

'poisoning the game from the very beginning' -- well thats a bold statement. This forum has become a platform for witch hunting filled with a hate mob. I've really never seen anything like it before.

Possibly because you've never seen a pve based mmo before?

 

[Gunnet]

It seems like if the ratio of PvP to PvE players here is skewed at all it would be skewed towards PvP.

Like any game forum, it's certainly skewed towards more committed players and away from casual players. The lower limit of time investment to be competitive in PvP is far higher than the lower limit for any PvE activity. So it stands to reason that a sample group which is skewed towards "serious" players is also likely to be skewed towards PvP players, since few players not invested enough to post on a forum are going to be invested enough to own a properly modded FDL (or whatever) and know how to use it in PvP.

 

[Leo Sagan]

It seems like if the ratio of PvP to PvE players here is skewed at all it would be skewed towards PvP.

Like any game forum, it's certainly skewed towards more committed players and away from casual players. The lower limit of time investment to be competitive in PvP is far higher than the lower limit for any PvE activity. So it stands to reason that a sample group which is skewed towards "serious" players is also likely to be skewed towards PvP players, since few players not invested enough to post on a forum are going to be invested enough to own a properly modded FDL (or whatever) and know how to use it in PvP.

Seems plausible ...

 

[Sandmann]

150 mlns is a 3 hours gameplay. Not a big deal.

Wow, I wish. It'd take me more than a week to get three hours gameplay these days... and getting three hours UNINTERUPTED gameplay? Hah! That's a pipe dream. Too much real world in my life for that to happen more than once in a blue moon.

 

[Luniticisi]

Seems plausible ...

So does the flat earth theory...

 

[Sandmann]

And because most people on the forums don't care about it doesn't mean it's an issue?

If we we're to put mining, piracy, bounty hunting, trading and exploration issues side by side and asked which ones should be paid attention to and bounty hunting starts winning it means that no other profession has important issues?

Nobody's demanding that fdev prevent people from "mining, piracy, bounty hunting, trading and exploration" though. If anything the issue there is that there not NOT ENOUGH reason to engage in those positive activities, and TOO MUCH reason to engage in the negative one of CLing. To foloow that logic we should be looking at the REASONS people engage in the negative and fail to engage in yhe positive activities... which mores MORE ENGAGING pve content, and a real C&P system to prevent the ganking that so often encourages the CLing.

 

[TomP]

So does the flat earth theory...

No, no it really doesn't.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

I voted yes.

It killed my desire to hunt down norotious newbie-killers in starter systems (they all combat log)
It killed my days of being a serious powerplay fighter/defender (which was a seriously fun way of playing, on paper)
It killed my days of being in The Code, pirating by our code of conduct (which was also incredibly fun in theory)

Look at me now

 

[Sandmann]

I was in the 70% last time though. So I have swapped ( "SIDES"!!! ) apparently.

Yeah there's been quite a bit of that here actually... hard core pvpers simply not caring about other's CLing, and solo players feeling it absolutely needs to be prevented. It's made interesting reading.

I don't think anyone (other than a few who feel that ganking justifies it) is trying to claim that it's not a cheat, nor was that the point of the thread. The fact that it's a cheat is well defined by clearly stated rules. It was more about taking a read of the prevalent level of angst about it, which is predictably (and in my opinion, quite reasonably) low.

 

[Tel Prydain]

To the guys who don't care: you've never tried to defend a system against player group BGS + PvP attack across weeks, fighting one group v three groups, at once, working in shifts, have you?

Have you?

Have you...?

No.
And I don't want to.

Nor do I want to be ganked by a wing of l33t flybois in the name of... whatever it is you're doing.

 

[TomP]

I voted yes.

It killed my desire to hunt down norotious newbie-killers in starter systems (they all combat log)
It killed my days of being a serious powerplay fighter/defender (which was a seriously fun way of playing, on paper)
It killed my days of being in The Code, pirating by our code of conduct (which was also incredibly fun in theory)

Look at me now

Well, you've got at least one other player available to attack without fear that he will combat log. Your comrades in the SDC have killed me sometimes but not most times. I'll never log, it's pathetic. So give it your best shot.

It's funny, but I got salty just a few minutes ago when blown up by a station [not involving other players] because I lost my nearly Master crewmate who I'd taken up from harmless. Was tempted to disconnect, but no. That is part of what makes games compelling to play, for [expurgated]'s sake. You can't just win all the time.

I don't feel bad when blown up by a player, I just work out how to defeat it next time. That's proper participation, in my view.

 

[Sandmann]

To the guys who don't care: you've never tried to defend a system against player group BGS + PvP attack across weeks, fighting one group v three groups, at once, working in shifts, have you?

Have you?

Have you...?

Nope. Nor would I want to. I can't think of a more frustrating way way to spend my free time. Seriously, how many people with jobs, relations, and responsibilities have the TIME to spend weeks taking shifts defending a pretend space station? I'm lucky if I get 2 hours a week to play, so I sure don't have time to be someone else's entertainment or get overly worked up if you don't want to be my entertainment.

Seriously, even if I had that much free time, there's still a million other things that are more pressing AND more interesting than what you've described that are demanding my attention.

 

[Tel Prydain]

Did you know that on Xbox before there were any ganker groups there were still combat loggers?

Did you know, you don't have to come on a forum to gloat to be a ganker?

Just because there wasn't a community of howling trolls celebrating newbie tears on reddit doesn't make a gank any less a gank.

 

[Sandmann]

Yep, and it's a damn stupid-    dumb 'rule'.... why oh why would you ever put such a mechanic into a game?! ..... seriously, why?!

Careful - if you can argue that a rule is "dumb" and therefore to be ignored, so can another... and if this poll's shown anything, it's that a lot of people here don't really care about upholding the CLing rule.

 

[Sanderson]

As much as I hate polls on forums I love this one. It really puts those crying about Cl into perspective, IMO. I'd wager if a poll was put up asking who kills other commanders we'd see almost identical data that we do here.

 

[Sandmann]

It is just cheating to gain a competitive advantage.

But ONLY when it's done by someone who is competing. When a "competitor" forces their gameplay on a "non-competitor", there is no "advantage" to be had when CLing, just a pain in the neck to be avoided. Your whole argument assumes that everyone is in competition with you, when really the vast majority of players don't give two hoots about you or your game, and just want you out of their game.

 

[Sandmann]

This is really the entire problem with this kind of poll, though, isn't it?

The game is based around a wide variety of activities.

Most players are not interested in any given one, because there are many activities.

Combat logging is a problem that (predominantly, not entirely) affects PvP.

If we ran separate polls about an aspect of mining, an aspect of A-B trading, an aspect of Powerplay, an aspect of smuggling, an aspect of exploration ...

... 70% would say they were not interested in each problem.

Sure... but CLing is not something that happens in isolation, is it? It happens because *reason*, and since it's technically difficult/impossible to prevent the solution would be to address the reasons it occurs instead, wouldn't you agree?

It's a problem that ONLY occurs in open, and ONLY impacts those seeking pvp (as you point out), and only occurs when people seeking pvp encounter those not seeking pvp, or unwilling to carry through with it. Even then, it has demonstrably minor to no effect on the "winner" of the fight, with the only arguments describing alleged losses being very tenuous, imaginative, and questionable.

So the point to the poll? Yes it's a cheat, but is it a matter of enough concern to enough people with enough loss to those who experience it to warrant spending a LOT of dev time and money on chasing an impossible cure for an unenforcable rule when they could be developing actual new content instead? I suggest to you that the answer is no, it's not worth it. A far better use of their time would be to develop a real C&P system and real non-lethal piracy tools... which would go a long way toward reducing the ganking that depopulates open and encourages CLing.

Treat the causes rather than trying to ban the symptoms. Reduce the reasons for CLing, and you'll reduce the CLing.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Look at me now

Indeed, look at you now... being a member of a group known for their hypocrisy about CLing. Your point?