The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Viajero

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*Mod hat off

They've taken 130 million in pre orders for a game they cant seem to make work and now they are refusing refunds.

Oh?

My experience is that CIG has been extremely forthcoming in issuing refunds. Granted, you had to engage in a lengthy back and forth exchange but in the end, at least within the anecdotal experience I have been exposed to, those refunds tend to come in sound and well.

Are you saying that that has changed recently?
 
I see Mellanox now have 200Gb/s Infiniband. Just saying...

What strikes me is that i wouldn't be surprised if CR spend couple thousands of dollars just to set up infiniband networks for show, just to masquerade the catastrophic performance of their netcode. On the other hand, maybe they will release 2.6 with SM working properly today or at least within the next few days.
 
*Mod hat off



Oh?

My experience is that CIG has been extremely forthcoming in issuing refunds. Granted, you had to engage in a lengthy back and forth exchange but in the end, at least within the anecdotal experience I have been exposed to, those refunds tend to come in sound and well.

Are you saying that that has changed recently?

Yup. As of June 10th:

"For the avoidance of doubt, following the Cancellation Period, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items, RSI agrees to refund any unearned portion of your Pledge, and to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that, following the Cancellation Period, you shall irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any Pledge that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above."

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos
 
"I haven't played it, but it looks really good!"

[wacky]

You should give it a go. Or don't. Playing the garbage they've plopped out so far won't help your optimism.

You know why I don't play it. Because it's a game in the middle of development. There's no other result but beeing disappointed. Of course! It's work in progress. I don't play unfished games nor do I take part in Betas or early access games. I don't want to destroy my desire to play a game by playing a totally unfinished, cracked up and broken version of it. Makes 0 sense.

As mentioned, the parts I saw so far look good. IF they manage to assemble them to a final game the way they intend to do it and if they give the game great storytelling and hand crafted missions (exactly what ELITE is totally lacking), it's gonna be a fantastic gameplay experience.

So, what I do is to have a look at what they achieved so far and look what they want to achieve as a final game. Both, the recent results as well as what the end product should be are great. What I don't do and that is the problem here is to judge a game which is in the middle of it's development cycle. It's nonsense to say it's a bad product. It's not a product yet. It's parts that are in development. And if it takes another 2 years for the team to get it done, it's fine with me as I haven't touched the game yet and I'm super patient. What counts for me is that the guy in charge get where he wants to be. Then, the game will be awesome. If they fail, well, then they fail. It's one if not the biggest game project the world has ever seen.
 
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You know why I don't play it. Because it's a game heavyly in development. There's no other result but beeing disappointed. Of course! It's work in progress. I don't play unfished games nor do I take part in Betas or early access. I don't want to destroy my desire to play a game by playing a crached up version of it. Makes 0 sense.

As mentioned, the part I saw so far look good. IF they manage to assemble them to a final game the way they intend to do it and if they give the game great storytelling and hand crafted missions (exactly what ELITE is totally lacking), it's gonna me a BLAST OF A GAME.

Two "if" too many in that sentence...
 
*Mod hat off



Oh?

My experience is that CIG has been extremely forthcoming in issuing refunds. Granted, you had to engage in a lengthy back and forth exchange but in the end, at least within the anecdotal experience I have been exposed to, those refunds tend to come in sound and well.

Are you saying that that has changed recently?

Nope AFAIK nothing new on that front.

I said they were refusing refunds, I never said they were refusing them with any success :D.
 
You know why I don't play it. Because it's a game in the middle of development. There's no other result but beeing disappointed. Of course! It's work in progress. I don't play unfished games nor do I take part in Betas or early access games. I don't want to destroy my desire to play a game by playing a totally unfinished, cracked up and broken version of it. Makes 0 sense.

As mentioned, the parts I saw so far look good. IF they manage to assemble them to a final game the way they intend to do it and if they give the game great storytelling and hand crafted missions (exactly what ELITE is totally lacking), it's gonna be a fantastic gameplay experience.

So, what I do is to have a look at what they achieved so far and look what they want to achieve as a final game. Both, the recent results as well as what the end product should be are great. What I don't do and that is the problem here is to judge a game which is in the middle of it's development cycle. It's nonsense to say it's a bad product. It's not a product yet. It's parts that are in development. And if it takes another 2 years for the team to get it done, it's fine with me as I haven't touched the game yet and I'm super patient. What counts for me is that the guy in charge get where he wants to be. Then, the game will be awesome. If they fail, well, then they fail. It's one if not the biggest game project the world has ever seen.

Two quotes from Jayne Cobb spring to mind:
1) "I'm smellin' a lotta 'if' comin' off this plan."
2) "It smells like crotch."
 
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Two "if" too many in that sentence...

Two quotes from Jayne Cobb spring to mind:
1) "I'm smellin' a lotta 'if' comin' off this plan."
2) "It smells like crotch."

No, the 2 IFs are a realistic point of view.

IF #1: The assembly of the parts still could fail, then they might release a game which is far away from what was intendended and thus bad.

IF #2: They are showcasing hand crafted missions which is absolutely great. The only way to keep a game interesting (just look how boring Elite's missions are. Repetition loop to death.) But! Hand crafted missions are time consuming and cost way more money. The question is, will they be able to do it in the long term or will they switch to procedurally genereated content (that's what FDev does and that what makes Elite boring and repetitive).

So, in the end, let's see. I can't judge before I see the final product and play it. At this stage, it's not possible to say it's gonna be hop or top.
 
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An aside:

Where's Hi-Ban, Briguy, etc?. Haven't seen any of the vehemently pro camp posting for ages. Probably since well before the recent Citcon.

Anyways I have some free time tonight might try to catch some of this livestream. They need to get some decent info and gameplay out to keep the ball rolling and well..The hour is getting late as hendrix sang.
 
Rhyme- those IFs are simply all that SC relies upon. That's why they are two too many.
It's not minor IF, like : "if they fix the missions system already present"- or- "if they reduce the amount of bugs present in mission triggers".

It's more like "IF it works it will be good". I'm sorry, it just doesn't hold water.
 
No, the 2 IFs are a realistic point of view.

IF #1: The assembly of the parts still could fail, then they might release a game which is far away from what was intendended and thus bad.

IF #2: They are showcasing hand crafted missions which is absolutely great. The only way to keep a game interesting (just look how boring Elite's missions are. Repetition loop to death.) But! Hand crafted missions are time consuming and cost way more money. The question is, will they be able to do it in the long term or will they switch to procedurally genereated content (that's what FDev does and that what makes Elite boring and repetitive).

So, in the end, let's see. I can't judge before I see the final product and play it. At this stage, it's not possible to say it's gonna be hop or top.

You already know the answer to #2 It is impossible within the constraints of time and resource to hand craft multiple missions to the supposed standard of the Gamescom "double cross". You might get enough to play through something like Mass Effect, to give 20 or 30 hours of game play and then what? No more missions, as you have done them all. You could argue that works for Squadron 42 episode 1.

I think the problems of having a WoW style mission giver in a large instance multiplayer game have already been documented. Either everyone gets their own private conversation, regardless of how many other players are surrounding the npc, or someone "pad blocks" the rest, or someone goons along and murders the quest giver (Old Everquest trick).

The biggest challenge from a non-invested bystander opinion, is that as soon as you try and nail down one detail of how something will work, it opens up several other folders of questions.

As an example: If you can fly your ship to a comms array, can you lock the ship when you EVA? Answer is "yes, that is proposed"...

But your ship has permanence in the PU, so can someone else try and board when you are away? Answer "Yes, that is proposed, but they will have to hack locks or cut their way in"

But does that mean as soon as you leave your ship someone else can steal it or blow it up defenceless "Yes, that is proposed, don't worry though, you pledged for an LTI ship didn't you?"

Aieeee, my ship got ganked when I was doing my EVA mission, how do I get back to a shipyard to file my LTI claim and wait around for my ship to be built... This is the 4th time it has happened this morning and the delay is increasing each time unless I pay some UEC to reduce it... "you can wait for another ship to come along and ask them for a ride, or steal their ship to ride back to town...

I'm sick of getting ganked, can't I just pull the PvE / PvP sider all the way to PvE and avoid all this? Sorry no, we quietly mothballed that idea due to the complexities of nested slider settings in multi-crew, so man-up and git gud, commando...
 
An aside:

Where's Hi-Ban, Briguy, etc?. Haven't seen any of the vehemently pro camp posting for ages. Probably since well before the recent Citcon.

Anyways I have some free time tonight might try to catch some of this livestream. They need to get some decent info and gameplay out to keep the ball rolling and well..The hour is getting late as hendrix sang.

I think they may have been casualties of the great thread defensive rep shield incident and are currently enjoying forum holidays!
 
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Hello commanders

I know very little about SC other than it looks interesting to me.. I love Elite and I'm not looking for competition with it but I would like another space game..

I am struggling to find simple info on what's playable in SC at the minute and is it worth picking up right now or should I hold fire for a while?

Any input (unbiased would be great as I just love all space stuff) is greatly appreciated!

o7
 
No, the 2 IFs are a realistic point of view.

IF #1: The assembly of the parts still could fail, then they might release a game which is far away from what was intendended and thus bad.

IF #2: They are showcasing hand crafted missions which is absolutely great. The only way to keep a game interesting (just look how boring Elite's missions are. Repetition loop to death.) But! Hand crafted missions are time consuming and cost way more money. The question is, will they be able to do it in the long term or will they switch to procedurally genereated content (that's what FDev does and that what makes Elite boring and repetitive).

So, in the end, let's see. I can't judge before I see the final product and play it. At this stage, it's not possible to say it's gonna be hop or top.

So, there will be a dymanic universe with handcrafted missions?
Wow. Glad I don't work for CIG, it would be hard enough to come up with 15 hours of gameplay in a dymanic setting, never mind 1,500.
 
Short version :

They've taken 130 million in pre orders for a game they cant seem to make work and now they are refusing refunds.

Long version :

THE LIST
Initial release 2014 (didn't happen)
Ship sales (overpriced engineering debt)
Dates (all missed so far)
Flight model (man it's bad)
Likely completion decade (if at all)
Use of backer funds (the backers will never know)
Wild theory-crafting (everything not available to play)
Pay2win (it is)
Comparisons with ED (ED is the BDSSE)
NMS (going the same way)
Derek Smart (he was right)
Citcon 2016 (disastrous)
3.0 (not in 2016)
Refunds (get em while you can)
Scapegoating (Derek, Illphonic, leavers)
The new TOS (your money is ours we don't need to make a game)
Development start date (it was October 2011)
Star Marine (on again, off again, already in the game)
Illphonic (CiG gave them the wrong scale to work to)
RSI forum (cast out the unbelievers)
Freelancer (history repeating)
Underdog act (CiG/RSI are now a multinational multimillion dollar business)
Sandworms (Frank Herberts IP)
Coffee machines (Lol)
Blood oxygen levels (no space in the game)
Chris Roberts physics expert (he isn't)
Legalistic bluff called (the escapist)
Labelling backers (goon, special snowflakes, high maintenance, toxic dinks)
Accusations of corporate espionage (beer4thebeergod)
INN ( Run by a rep management company, less viewers than pgabz)
Star citizen subreddit (controversial tab concealed by default, brigading)
PG birds (scopecreep on the fly)
Handcrafted universe superior to PG (this may take some time)
Switching focus from handcrafting to PG (NMS/ED bandwagon)
PU neglected for SQ42 (vast majority of backers want PU)
CR thinks he's making a movie (repeatedly says "movie" when he means "game")
Mocap (hollywood obsession)
Build your own studio (repeatedly)
Expensive reshoots (repeatedly)
Renting the imaginarium (most expensive in the world)
"Original" artwork (other studios logo's still visible)
Ongoing scopecreep (cargocult)
Physical relocation to hollywood (they trade on the internet)
100 systems at launch (they'd need decades for this)
Tusken raiders (George lucas's IP)
Nipple jets (jetpacks not required for EVA)
Killer door control (no space in the game)
Refactoring (does not mean what you think it means)
Top Gun "inspired" stuff (Hornet ad and inverted finger)
Monthly patches (have never been monthly)
Tutorial broken ("fixed" by removing it completely)
Ships don't spawn correctly (very old bug)
Random ship explosion (very old bug)
Multicrew numbers exceed player maximum
FPS not impressive (in an FPS engine)
Animations are glitchy
No VR support (you can't just add it later)
The "patcher" is a complete download everytime
Chat UI unchanged (CR said it would be changed live)
Crash reporter not reporting information
Staff retention issues (leavers)
CR makes unrealistic demands (from the man himself)
Lack of internal coordination (seat numbers)

SUB LIST THE CULT

Claim to be the voice of backers (actually internet loonies)
Greymarket (you can't say black market that sounds illegal)
Deterring customers (the prospect of playing a game with them)
Run a hate sub (r/dereksmart)
Hatesub moderators shared with greymarket (financial motive)
Interference with the ED forum (exposed gaming the rep system)
Brigading
Threats
Death threats
Abuse
Misinformation
Review bombing competition (LOD ED NMS COD:IW)
Journalist intimidation ("wah" clickbait)
Suppressing the truth (happily embrace positive lies)
Paranoia (they see Derek everywhere)
Encouraging purchases (whilst applying the above)
False claims about ED's development time
Yaw is not a dirty word
Living embodiment of the Streisand effect




On the specific topic of development time according to Chris Roberts expanded scope and funding would not effect it, he was wrong, made that up or never gave it any thought beyond "I'll just wing it". Which is fine for an indie dev, it's not fine with this amount of other peoples money at stake.

@Godblock That is a "State of the Union" list for the project so far. My advice would be wait until their next "free fly week", download the 30 Gig client and have a look yourself. Currently you could either describe it as a disjointed compilation of several alpha modules, or a hopelessly misguided tech demo, or something else.

That is the the true beauty of SC: so long as you keep putting coins in the slot, the 3 reels keep spinning and you can continue to dream of what it will feel like when the jackpot drops :)
 
Hello commanders

I know very little about SC other than it looks interesting to me.. I love Elite and I'm not looking for competition with it but I would like another space game..

I am struggling to find simple info on what's playable in SC at the minute and is it worth picking up right now or should I hold fire for a while?

Any input (unbiased would be great as I just love all space stuff) is greatly appreciated!

o7

I'd hold fire until there is another free-fly weekend, then you can have a look and see if you like what's there. Unless you are interested in funding it as a matter of principle, I don't think you are going to get your money's worth, but that's just my opinion...
 
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