Aren't they the guys who troll the players with OCD?Who are the SCD
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
Does that matter? the fact that they did nowt is the news here!
LOL , so would i be abble to pirate the ships without killing them? Or you dont want to be able to lose your precious cargo for me? Sounds like you want a CHEAT server...
Maybe this is the problem right here!
Anything that prevents seal clubbing is 'cheating' or 'cheat' mode, or me not losing 800t of paladium + cutter in a PvE transaction is 'cheat' abuse.
An OPEN PvE server really is needed, more so than ever now. Would be humor and good tidings on the part of FDEV if they turned around in response to say:
Guys, we have heard you. Combat logging clearly is detrimental to OPEN mode. As a solution we will be adding a new game play mode called OPEN PvE. This will be just like OPEN, but with player damage turned off towards other players. The idea being that any commanders wishing a certain type of limited player interaction, can use this new mode, and leave OPEN mode to anyone that is consensual to the harshness of space, and emergent content generated by players by any means at their disposal.
What an update, and amazing response to this whole thing that would be.
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Examining the finger instead of the moon it points at
I don't really care where this fingers is pointing. The moon, in this analogy, is not big enough to warrant the Witch Hunt SDC was calling for.
regards
I think the problem is not the greifers or the combag log.
The real problem is the structuring of the game itself with its causes-effect. And it is in this section where FRONTIER must find the balance.
On the one hand the pirate CMDR, will rightly say that they have the right to destroy ship if they do not give it their cargo.
But what happens if the merchant does not have any cargo goes empty, and the pirate does not want to have in his ship cargo scanner? Is it greifers or pirate? It is difficult to elucidate which is a role or another in each case, so put FRONTIER in a dilemma that values implement to distinguish one attitude from another.
If FRONTIER punishes the combag log of CMDR that do not want combat or they look inferior like semi disarmed merchants ..... it can arrive a moment that the players disappear of ELITE because they are always surpassed by the pirates, and clearly I have read by part From a FRONRIER manager that there is a majority of PvE players.
If there is a majority PVE is for something,
I believe that FRONTIER has not assumed the effect-cause, on these issues. And I think it's time for you to think it with some seriousness, to look for that balance that will never be perfect, but today it is very deficient.
I think FRONTIER should find those rules well-defined, from pirate role and trader or explorers not to always feel helpless.
This would reduce the combag log and increase the PVP.
ORIGINAL
Saludos
Creo que el problema no es el greifers ni el combag log.
El verdadero problemas es la estructuracion del propio juego con sus causas-efecto. Y es en esta seccion donde FRONTIER debe encontrar el equilibrio.
Por una parte los CMDR piratas, diran con razon que tienen derecho a destruir nave si no le dan su carga.
¿pero que ocurre si el comerciante no tiene carga alguna va de vacio, y el pirata no quiere tener en su nave scaner de carga?. Es greifers o pirata ?. Es dificil dilucidar cual es un rol u otro en cada caso, por lo que poner a FRONTIER en un dilema que valores implementar para distinguir una actitud de otra.
Si FRONTIER castiga el combag log de CMDR que no quieren combate o se ven inferior como comerciantes semi desarmados ..... puede llegar un momento que los jugadores desaparezcan del ELITE porque se ven siempre sobrepasados por los piratas, y claramente he leido por parte de un responsable de FRONRIER que hay una mayoria de jugaadores PvE.
Si hay mayoria PVE es por algo,
Creo yo que FRONTIER no ha asumido el efecto-causa, sobre estos temas. Y creo es hora que se lo piense con cierta seriedad, para buscar ese equilibrio que nunca sera perfecto, pero hoy por hoy es muy deficiente.
Creo FRONTIER debe encontrar esas reglas bien defiidas, de pirata su rol y comerciante o exploradores no sentirse siempre indefensos.
Asi bajaria el combag log y aumentaria el PVP.
I think the problem is not the greifers or the combag log.
The real problem is the structuring of the game itself with its causes-effect. And it is in this section where FRONTIER must find the balance.
On the one hand the pirate CMDR, will rightly say that they have the right to destroy ship if they do not give it their cargo.
But what happens if the merchant does not have any cargo goes empty, and the pirate does not want to have in his ship cargo scanner? Is it greifers or pirate? It is difficult to elucidate which is a role or another in each case, so put FRONTIER in a dilemma that values implement to distinguish one attitude from another.
If FRONTIER punishes the combag log of CMDR that do not want combat or they look inferior like semi disarmed merchants ..... it can arrive a moment that the players disappear of ELITE because they are always surpassed by the pirates, and clearly I have read by part From a FRONRIER manager that there is a majority of PvE players.
If there is a majority PVE is for something,
I believe that FRONTIER has not assumed the effect-cause, on these issues. And I think it's time for you to think it with some seriousness, to look for that balance that will never be perfect, but today it is very deficient.
I think FRONTIER should find those rules well-defined, from pirate role and trader or explorers not to always feel helpless.
This would reduce the combag log and increase the PVP.
ORIGINAL
Saludos
Creo que el problema no es el greifers ni el combag log.
El verdadero problemas es la estructuracion del propio juego con sus causas-efecto. Y es en esta seccion donde FRONTIER debe encontrar el equilibrio.
Por una parte los CMDR piratas, diran con razon que tienen derecho a destruir nave si no le dan su carga.
¿pero que ocurre si el comerciante no tiene carga alguna va de vacio, y el pirata no quiere tener en su nave scaner de carga?. Es greifers o pirata ?. Es dificil dilucidar cual es un rol u otro en cada caso, por lo que poner a FRONTIER en un dilema que valores implementar para distinguir una actitud de otra.
Si FRONTIER castiga el combag log de CMDR que no quieren combate o se ven inferior como comerciantes semi desarmados ..... puede llegar un momento que los jugadores desaparezcan del ELITE porque se ven siempre sobrepasados por los piratas, y claramente he leido por parte de un responsable de FRONRIER que hay una mayoria de jugaadores PvE.
Si hay mayoria PVE es por algo,
Creo yo que FRONTIER no ha asumido el efecto-causa, sobre estos temas. Y creo es hora que se lo piense con cierta seriedad, para buscar ese equilibrio que nunca sera perfecto, pero hoy por hoy es muy deficiente.
Creo FRONTIER debe encontrar esas reglas bien defiidas, de pirata su rol y comerciante o exploradores no sentirse siempre indefensos.
Asi bajaria el combag log y aumentaria el PVP.
Well, this thread is lacking the FD icon which indicates staff participation, so it doesn't seem so.
Pity, I was hoping this would have been resolved by now.
Ah, but they did reply on the subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ion_into_frontiers_actions_on_combat/dacac6q/
tl;dr: their own internal rules weren't followed. And if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you in Eravate.
Pity, I was hoping this would have been resolved by now.
Ah, but they did reply on the subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ion_into_frontiers_actions_on_combat/dacac6q/
tl;dr: their own internal rules weren't followed. And if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you in Eravate.
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You know who I see combat logging 90% of the time?
The people you call gankers, griefers, and seal clubbers - flying combat-spec Cutters, Vettes, Vultures, FDLs - carrying 5,6,7 figure bounties.
Let that sink in a moment.
A guy in a starter system, shooting newbies in a combat-spec Cutter with a $700,000 bounty is logging - because he's being interdicted by a guy who isn't a quick kill. Or the guy in the combat FDL, who logged 4 times in a hour after a wingmate and I (flying DBSs) were trying to clean up the system.
Then tell me again I'm the problem, because I choose to hunt CMDRs who are WANTED in the system.
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Yes, there's been an official statement:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ion_into_frontiers_actions_on_combat/dacac6q/
"A griefer is someone who, through his social actions, costs you more money than he gives you."
Gordon Walton, at the time executive producer for Ultima Online. This was the justification used to separate Ultima Online shards into PvE and PvP worlds, BTW.
Oh, and BTW, it also means that an "exploit" that actually helps retain players often has as great a chance of being turned into a feature as of being fixed. Like when Funcom, faced with players using death as a way to fast travel, decided to implement a fast travel feature instead of fixing the death exploit. So, given that combat logging helps prevent PvE players from leaving the game (which you can see by how widespread it is), it becomes really hard to see how Frontier will proceed in the end.
Hey guys, you've probably seen but I did post a reply on Reddit.
Here's the details.
===
"Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
First of all, I would like to take a moment to assure you that combat logging is against the rules and it’s something that we actively review and action on a regular basis. We have internal processes which we follow to ensure that the reviews are dealt with in a fair and thorough way. We use a number of data points and telemetry to help guide our decision and every report is treated on a case by case basis. There are a number of factors included in that process but we don’t share details of how we action rule breakers as this would give people an advantage in circumventing those checks, should someone be inclined to do so.
However, after looking into the reports that you’ve highlighted here and taking a moment to review them in more detail I can confirm that on this occasion we didn’t follow the processes that we set out and subsequently these reports were not actioned. While we don’t tend to talk about individual reports (even ones like this) we feel that it’s important to give you an open, honest and transparent answer to your post. I must stress that this is absolutely not typical of our standard review and reporting process and this mistake was completely unintentional.
I would like to apologise for the error and thank you for bringing it to our attention. By doing so you’ve helped us to review and make improvements to our existing process which lets us deliver the best possible support for our community.
I also want to add though that reports are still very important to us. We have hundreds of thousands of Commanders playing and while cheating and rule breaking is very small within the Elite Dangerous community it is still something that we do review and take very seriously. Please do continue to submit reports of rule breaking with as much detail as possible and we will endeavour to review these and take action where needed. "
Here's the details.
===
"Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
First of all, I would like to take a moment to assure you that combat logging is against the rules and it’s something that we actively review and action on a regular basis. We have internal processes which we follow to ensure that the reviews are dealt with in a fair and thorough way. We use a number of data points and telemetry to help guide our decision and every report is treated on a case by case basis. There are a number of factors included in that process but we don’t share details of how we action rule breakers as this would give people an advantage in circumventing those checks, should someone be inclined to do so.
However, after looking into the reports that you’ve highlighted here and taking a moment to review them in more detail I can confirm that on this occasion we didn’t follow the processes that we set out and subsequently these reports were not actioned. While we don’t tend to talk about individual reports (even ones like this) we feel that it’s important to give you an open, honest and transparent answer to your post. I must stress that this is absolutely not typical of our standard review and reporting process and this mistake was completely unintentional.
I would like to apologise for the error and thank you for bringing it to our attention. By doing so you’ve helped us to review and make improvements to our existing process which lets us deliver the best possible support for our community.
I also want to add though that reports are still very important to us. We have hundreds of thousands of Commanders playing and while cheating and rule breaking is very small within the Elite Dangerous community it is still something that we do review and take very seriously. Please do continue to submit reports of rule breaking with as much detail as possible and we will endeavour to review these and take action where needed. "
You will forgive me for being very skeptical of that. Many reports over the space of weeks is not "a mistake", it is policy.
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Pretty sure reputation is something that's entirely earned by your actions.