I think you're expanding the heuristic of the argument at hand, reduction in consequence lead to a less "cutthroat" universe, I think I made that clear.
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
I think you're expanding the heuristic of the argument at hand, reduction in consequence lead to a less "cutthroat" universe, I think I made that clear.
Brett C
Frontier
Unfortunately, this will not readily fix the intertwined issue of people just using a script, hotkey or process manager to kill the game client.
Hah, I see you're a lost cause, oh well.
We already have that as a choice...merely reset yer account
No, I'm talking about losing the value of your ship, not Ironman mode. ED has handled it with kid gloves and given everyone a ridiculously low rebuy cost for an insurance fee they never actually pay into.
This is why adopting something like what others games do and artificially keeping that person's ship within the game for several minutes is the ideal soluton. The problem would literally disappear overnight and free CS to actually do CS rather than respond to combat logging report tickets.
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No it really isn't. See where you're going wrong is judging it based on the relative values that you attach to each activity. The beautiful thing about rules-based environments such as computer games is that they remove any requirement for you to do that. The only relevant issue here is the game rules.
Is hacking forbidden? Yes.
Is combat logging forbidden? Yes.
Oh look, in the only sense that has any meaning outside of your head (and specifically in the eyes of the company who provide and police this game) they are supposedly the same. You can like or dislike that fact, FD can't control what you think but a fact it remains.
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Brett C
Frontier
Problem with developing a full crime and punishment system is this: Everyone has their own idea of it. Some was it strict, some want a 50/50, some want a loopholed system, some desire for things to remain as is, some want a system that is beyond what i personally would define as fun.
If you cause or do one thing, what is the reaction to it? You cause a Lichtenberg figure-effect, much atone to this image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/PlanePair2.jpg - you start at the base, but as you branch out, things will split and methods to the reaction will change.
Unfortunately that isn't possible either as there is nothing to host a PC copy on.
Timed expiration of player entity, usually vulnerable to attack.
Would punish people suffering from bad connection (could be argued that you shouldn't play in open if you connection is bad) and people suffering from bad server connections.
The Best bet is to leave Open as it is. There is a place for the wild west in gaming. To supplement this, allow for a similar environment, but with a different rule set. Not just another Private Group, with all of the logistic issues that brings, but a Mode, available from the log in screen, where Commanders cannot be targeted, or damaged by another Commander. Yup, add a PvE-Open mode, and PvP-Open can go nuts. The issue stems from forcing both points of view to share a playground, with the rules tilted towards the more aggressive.
You can't avoid doing something. The system we have now is doing something, and not changing anything is continuing to do something.
Do you personally define the current system as fun for players on both side of the law? I'm curious to know.
Yep, and achieving immortality via a hull health hack or by flying with your network cable clamped between your teeth are also identical in their outcome.
The means to the end of cheating destruction are irrelevant.
Avago Earo
Banned
Interesting. How does that work? Do you mean that a player's ship data is somehow cached? If so, I guess that could be a solution. I don't know enough about online gaming and P2P networking, but I thought an instance was drawn from the 'client' of one of the players. Would this still work in that case?
On that, I feel I have to reply. Many players, on both sides of the fence, have indicated that a better crime and punishment system is very very much desired. That is, in-game crime and punishment. In a high security system, commiting a crime would be a very risky thing to do. In anarchy systems, all bets are off. Of course there's a scale inbetween. I actually haven't seen anybody oppose that concept. It would reduce combatlogging, thereby making it perhaps actually possible for FDev to actually act on people that would still combatlog.
Ugh, combat log... Nah, that's so mainstream.
Nowadays what I do is menu log.
- Get yourself a ship with FAT shields (by "fat" I mean several GJ engineered prismatics with eight or so engineered boosters). Pack some HRPs, just in case.
- Find yourself an SDC (preferably a lone one), they can be easily found at popular places like CG systems
- Be sure to put 4 pips into SYS
- Get him to interdict you (not a problem actually, just fly in straight line)
- As soon as he\she\it starts shooting at you (usually right after interdiction), declare "I'm menu-logging, goodbye!" in chat
- Menu log. Your ship should be able to hold its shields for 15 secs. If it isn't able - you did your mods wrong, go and redo them.
- Log into solo, wait until shields are recharged (you might want to pack some shield cells to speed up the process, or simply fly to the nearest station. These ultra-fat prismatics are SLOW to charge, trust me!)
- Log back to open, find the same SDC, enjoy his\hers\its rant about you being "cheater-logger-loser". Don't forget to menu log if he\she\it starts to attack you again (they usually do)
Alternatively, you might simply low-wake. Works if your ship has more shields than SDC is able to bring down in several minutes.
And yes, I do not play in Open, ever. I just go there to test my shields, and get some laughs from SDC and such. Comic relief is always welcomed.
Nowadays what I do is menu log.
- Get yourself a ship with FAT shields (by "fat" I mean several GJ engineered prismatics with eight or so engineered boosters). Pack some HRPs, just in case.
- Find yourself an SDC (preferably a lone one), they can be easily found at popular places like CG systems
- Be sure to put 4 pips into SYS
- Get him to interdict you (not a problem actually, just fly in straight line)
- As soon as he\she\it starts shooting at you (usually right after interdiction), declare "I'm menu-logging, goodbye!" in chat
- Menu log. Your ship should be able to hold its shields for 15 secs. If it isn't able - you did your mods wrong, go and redo them.
- Log into solo, wait until shields are recharged (you might want to pack some shield cells to speed up the process, or simply fly to the nearest station. These ultra-fat prismatics are SLOW to charge, trust me!)
- Log back to open, find the same SDC, enjoy his\hers\its rant about you being "cheater-logger-loser". Don't forget to menu log if he\she\it starts to attack you again (they usually do)
Alternatively, you might simply low-wake. Works if your ship has more shields than SDC is able to bring down in several minutes.
And yes, I do not play in Open, ever. I just go there to test my shields, and get some laughs from SDC and such. Comic relief is always welcomed.
Thanks for the reply Bret.
"Unfortunately, this will not readily fix the intertwined issue of people just using a script, hotkey or process manager to kill the game client. "
but... can it be made to. Such if your oponent pulls their ethernet plug whist in space their ship doesn't vanish. It stops dead or an AI flies it instead on the non loggers screens. If the ship is subsequently (90 seconds) destroyed the combat logger resumes play at the rebuy screen. PVP guy gets his bounty everybody happy! If after 90 seconds the ship is not destroyed then hyperspace out/vanish the ship.
"Unfortunately, this will not readily fix the intertwined issue of people just using a script, hotkey or process manager to kill the game client. "
but... can it be made to. Such if your oponent pulls their ethernet plug whist in space their ship doesn't vanish. It stops dead or an AI flies it instead on the non loggers screens. If the ship is subsequently (90 seconds) destroyed the combat logger resumes play at the rebuy screen. PVP guy gets his bounty everybody happy! If after 90 seconds the ship is not destroyed then hyperspace out/vanish the ship.
Clearly SOMETHING needs to be done or do you think it's fine that a great majority of the "pvp" encountered is from gank squads that are not counterable or accountable? This is more true now than ever, thanks to our lovely engineers and now Groms lovely little special effect. Suggesting it's difficult because everyone wants something different is facile. Even among pvpers there's agreement that some system that punishes psychotic behaviour is in order and furthermore, there have been piles and piles of suggestions as to how one can go about it for fd to consider. FD have had YEARS to consider a method for this and instead have only exacerbated the problem. Love you guys to bits and this is my favourite game, but on this issue, the ball was dropped a long time ago and has been plummeting ever since.
Here's a nice, fresh batch of suggestions for perusal:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...w-To-Guide-To-REAL-Crime-amp-Punishment-In-ED