The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

[Slopey]

My point being, is although the simulation says it's complex and realistic, the reality is, what you end up with is something that is uncontrollable and horrible to play.

+1

Just because it's "accurate" or realistic doesn't mean it's fun.

IMHO, the approach is flawed - there's no way it won't end up as jousting/rotating because the flight model makes that the most advantageous way of executing combat.

The gimbals are a necessary evil because the flight model is so complicated/detached from the pilot's control inputs.

(Edited to remove references to architectural features on castles).

 

[Thargon]

Ok. From CR himself. Just for the record.

Turreting

A portion of the community has expressed concern about the ability for players to “turret” by going into decoupled mode and spin around to fire at their target, feeling this removes the skill level of dogfighting. I know people think this but I can assure you that in our internal multiplayer tests pretty no one exclusively decouples and “turrets” as they would get destroyed very quickly. The key to surviving a dogfight is about being constantly on the move and not being predicable with your movements – sitting still or moving in a constant vector (which is what happens when you decouple) will get you killed. Decoupled mode is best used by going into briefly for a quick orientation change then dropping back into coupled mode. As we tweak the power of the maneuvering thrusters to make the main engine more significant going into decoupled mode, making a quick orientation change and going back into normal flight will be a great way to maximize your available thrust for a quick vector change. I know that some people think that being able to change your orientation much quicker than you can in an atmospheric flight sim makes the game easy but this is a space combat simulation NOT an atmospheric flight simulation and the ability to decouple your orientation from your velocity vector is absolutely something that would be used – and don’t forget a huge amount of the community demanded to be able to do the maneuvers you loved from Battle Star Galactica!

Source: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13951-Flight-Model-And-Input-Controls

 

[Aleksej]

Talking about the weapons the direction that they are heading for is looking great in my opinion.

There is no need to post the whole quotes from RSI news as I have read them, you could have simply said, which paragraph you consider important.

I have never said that gimbaled weapons should be removed I am only saying that it might be actually a good idea to limit the firing angles of gimbaled weapons.

But anyway let's see what improvements they are going to implement.

I am really hoping to see speed increase with the decrease of thrust output of maneuvering thrusters ASAP. I think that this should end up all the discussions about too fast turning rates.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

HI everyone,
Sorry to interrupt your discussion but we have had a lot of reports from this thread since it reopened and I figured a quick update of a particular issue may be worthwhile.

One thing in particular that seems to rile people up is the continued use of the phrase 'turret simulator' 'turret commander' 'turrets in space'.

Now I totally understand the use of describing the gameplay as 'turrets in space' the continued use of the phrase could be described as baiting for a response.

In the interests of continued and positive debate and postings in this thread, please bare this in mind.

Thanks for your attention.

Way back a lot of people used to term in that fashion but it has dropped now.

 

[Memnoch]

The only good thing I can say it that flight model might actually be good. However the heading away from the space sim towards FPS - ruins everything.

I've skipped over about 6 pages of posts so I don't know whether this observation has been made but is anyone surprised that FPS flight controls are the optimal way of playing this game based on an engine that is normally used for FPS games....just sayin'.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

There is no need to post the whole quotes from RSI news as I have read them, you could have simply said, which paragraph you consider important.

I have never said that gimbaled weapons should be removed I am only saying that it might be actually a good idea to limit the firing angles of gimbaled weapons.

But anyway let's see what improvements they are going to implement.

I am really hoping to see speed increase with the decrease of thrust output of maneuvering thrusters ASAP. I think that this should end up all the discussions about too fast turning rates.

All that section that i quoted is important about the weapons and how they will be. Which in my opinion is the best and most sensible direction they can take.

 

[Severian]

We will see that on SC but after 64 bit it is possible just like Elite you can move to a planet but without hyperspace nobody would dare because it's unbelievably slow also we saw a glimpse of the inter solar travel in the latest commercial which looked pretty much how i imagined it flying fast through planets similar to Elite.

And as you said it's an instance. Engine wise that transition is transitioning from the travel map to the local map. So technically it is not the same map. So not completely seamless as everybody is claiming it to be.

Pretty sure SC will follow a similar model but everyone that backs E: D is claiming SC will be something it is not designed as. The design states seamless transitions and CR said that you will be able to fly anywhere but there will be huge instances just like E: D. So pretty similar concepts that were laid out roughly at the same time by both games.

[Redacted] Kind of pointless discussing even basic game engine limitation as you simply repeat your assertions. [Redacted]

 

[Stormprooter]

EDIT: Removed

 

[Mr.Nowak]

[Redacted] Kind of pointless discussing even basic game engine limitation as you simply repeat your assertions. [Redacted]

[Redacted]

Either way Cryengine with 64 bit cab support incredibly massive areas that would take too long to treverse and there are ways to make it unnoticeable for users to see the end of the map so in elite are people going to other planets without hyperspace? no because it takes too long. The same system will apply for SC as well.

And i work in the video game industry.

 

[Thargon]

Guys, no personal attacks please, you don't want the thread locked again no?

 

[Aleksej]

All that section that i quoted is important about the weapons and how they will be. Which in my opinion is the best and most sensible direction they can take.

I agree, but still think that they should not give certain advantage to those who can afford expensive hardware. A player with KB/M should be able to compete with a player who uses HOTAS+pedals+TrackIR.

[Redacted]
Either way Cryengine with 64 bit cab support incredibly massive areas that would take too long to treverse and there are ways to make it unnoticeable for users to see the end of the map so in elite are people going to other planets without hyperspace? no because it takes too long. The same system will apply for SC as well.

And i work in the video game industry.

Let's just wait and see what the end result will be. I really find it quite strange to discuss theories of what will be in the final game.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

I agree, but still think that they should not give certain advantage to those who can afford expensive hardware. A player with KB/M should be able to compete with a player who uses HOTAS+pedals+TrackIR.

They are trying to balance that. Staying Controller agnostic is very hard. Will only happen post 1.0 with everyone having multiplayer.

 

[Aleksej]

They are trying to balance that. Staying Controller agnostic is very hard. Will only happen post 1.0 with everyone having multiplayer.

I agree, however, they can take some ideas from FD on this matter as they are great indeed.

 

[Dante80]

Regarding seamless transitions and flying in space.

SC will use a combination of the shattered worlds CRYENGINE technology, together with DFPP for bigger grids/maps. Also, they have in line a system of dynamic grid/map making that is projected around your actual ship so that you never reach a "simulation boundary" while flying around.

Here is what the above means. Star systems are made as a series of static maps/grids in which celestial objects, stations, asteroid fields and other places of interest are pinned in certain positions.

For in system travel, the game will use a straight moving warp speed autopilot mode to connect the maps/places of interest together. The speed coined for the mode is 0.2c. The system will also be able to make maps on the fly when you slowboat in space, get pulled from autopilot/warp or stop the ship yourself.

Scales, distances and orbital mechanics are not going to be accurate (or even in place). This is a design decision (the game does not need them), although there was a hint in a 10ftC that they were thinking about having celestial objects orbit and/or rotate. The current estimates we have about scaling is about 30min flight time with 0.2c to transverse a solar system from one extremity to the other. That puts the size of it in the sub AU range. We also know that celestial objects are not going to be 1:1 size (there is no need for it), and day/night cycles together with character aging mechanics will introduce an accelerated time scale (2 hours for one in-game day has been quoted by CR in a 10ftC).

The systems used here are designed to provide a seamless experience. For example, the warp mechanism puts you in a separate instance and masks dynamic loading for the destination grid/map as well as info about the possible grids along the way (which are easy to be predetermined since the flight path is known). Same goes for landing/launching from a planet.

Travel between systems is made via existing jump points. These are stationary anomalies that you can navigate to, and entering one will bring you somewhere (not a precise location) inside the system that it connects to. Jump points are navigable in that if you don't have the information needed you have to travel through them (in a witchspace of shorts) for the first time.

 

[Neo-ST]

The flight model definitely has potential, but how will they translate it to end user, that's the question.
Will it be accurate, fun, both or something else ?
Personally, I don't like how it feels right now, and frankly don't care how accurate it is. It's just not fun. I wanna have fun with this game, not show it off to my friends and say "yeah, the ship behaves strangely, but listen - it's 100% accurate and modeled in physics engine!".
But, as said numerous times before, patience is golden. I hope.

 

[Thargon]

Just watched the latest 10 for the chairman:

Confirmed:

* Space monsters.
* Fist fights in bars, get mugged in alleys.
* Chris Roberts cameo in SQ42 (voice acting probably)

 

[ianw]

The flight model definitely has potential, but how will they translate it to end user, that's the question.
Will it be accurate, fun, both or something else ?
Personally, I don't like how it feels right now, and frankly don't care how accurate it is. It's just not fun. I wanna have fun with this game, not show it off to my friends and say "yeah, the ship behaves strangely, but listen - it's 100% accurate and modeled in physics engine!".
But, as said numerous times before, patience is golden. I hope.

That's pretty much where I'm at with it now - awaiting V 1.0...

 

[Mr.Nowak]

Regarding seamless transitions and flying in space.

Thanks for that one i didn't feel like writing it with that amount of detail.

Just watched the latest 10 for the chairman:

Confirmed:

* Space monsters.
* Fist fights in bars, get mugged in alleys.
* Chris Roberts cameo in SQ42 (voice acting probably)

I like PVE encounters on planets and also expect some pvp encounters in lawless planets.

Hopefully Chris appears as a heroic fighter pilot who sacrifices himself to save the UEE ship by smashing his ship in to the reactor of the Vanduul ship.

 

[forger]

Well, I'm willing to give it a go, have you tried it?
If so, did it work at all?
I will RTFM, but any quick tips on how to do it?

Thanks

i will try when they bring in key bindings 100% as i will nerf yaw myself and try to get roll faster if that's possible

now it takes way too much time and that time will be wasted as they will tweak side thrusters(confirmed) main thruster(confirmed) and bring side g effects into play (confirmed), so now that arena is almost useless for learning how to fly as all will change soon and in many ways

i am more looking forward to play ED and come back to SC after maybe 2-3 years when they finally will make their own minds on how things actually will work there

 

[Mr.Nowak]

i will try when they bring in key bindings 100% as i will nerf yaw myself and try to get roll faster if that's possible

now it takes way too much time and that time will be wasted as they will tweak side thrusters(confirmed) main thruster(confirmed) and bring side g effects into play (confirmed), so now that arena is almost useless for learning how to fly as all will change soon and in many ways

i am more looking forward to play ED and come back to SC after maybe 2-3 years when they finally will make their own minds on how things actually will work there

Their minds are pretty much set. It's just that the implementation that takes time. G effects are already in play if you turn off G-Safe but not the horizontal g-forces which will have structural side effects once implemented.