The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

[cptzipzap]

All I can say is I feel a little ashamed for some members of the ED community. I personally backed both games with a similar amount of money.

And I am glad both games are so different.

Also I have much fun playign ED-Beta which is exceptionally good (not like what you think a beta could mean).
I have also great fun playing AC - while its still only deathmatch with no docking or exploring - the flight mechanics are wonderful!

And I for myself dont see the discrepancy some here mention:

I come to wave 13 with all inputs and all ships currently available.

I think most people havent really tried to play AC and tried to learn it. If they cant adapt to sth. new than they are doomed.

 

[Aleksej]

The loading time for SC is insane and only for a few ships and 2 maps. I can think what would it be like in final game when they add all the ships/systems.
Now that the target arrow gone (I didn't like it at all) they will prove that the blue orb is OK and we should see our loved ship in center of it so that we know we are in the center of action.

Well, probably this is not optimized yet. However, I really do not like that I have 250MB/S reads from SSD for about 1-2 minutes after launching AC.

All I can say is I feel a little ashamed for some members of the ED community. I personally backed both games with a similar amount of money.

And I am glad both games are so different.

Also I have much fun playign ED-Beta which is exceptionally good (not like what you think a beta could mean).
I have also great fun playing AC - while its still only deathmatch with no docking or exploring - the flight mechanics are wonderful!

And I for myself dont see the discrepancy some here mention:

I come to wave 13 with all inputs and all ships currently available.

I think most people havent really tried to play AC and tried to learn it. If they cant adapt to sth. new than they are doomed.

What is there to learn in AC? How to turn your ship fast and face your enemy head on all the time? There is no need in performing complex maneuvers. And decoupled mode is broken for HOTAS users as you do not have proper thrust controls.

I have backed more in SC and I think that I have rights to expect it to be at least on the same level as ED. As well as no one here wants SC to fail but a lot of people completely dislike the way SC is going now.

 

[Stormprooter]

That is exactly what I am talking about - the SC is being hijacked mouse-clickers - point and click.

And we can see those people coming to ED. However, their immediate reaction is that ED is too difficult.

E : D is not that easy to play with a mouse, however, Mike Evans said it is still a work in progress, and he is looking for ways to improve the mouse controls to bring them up to par (as far as is possible) with joystick/hotas controls, but without changing the flight model, and with the emphasis still very much on pitch & roll.

That said, quite a few people are doing really well with the mouse in it's current state - I think this is the equivalent of those persevering with HOTAS controls in AC - got to hand it to them, they've got some patience, and skillz.

 

[Stormprooter]

And I for myself dont see the discrepancy some here mention:

I come to wave 13 with all inputs and all ships currently available.

I think most people havent really tried to play AC and tried to learn it. If they cant adapt to sth. new than they are doomed.

Do you get a 'twitchy' response when using a HOTAS? By this I mean exaggerated movements when trying to perform small pitch, roll and yaw corrections?

What HOTAS are you using?

 

[Thargon]

SC history: hangar released 2013 august, only FPS mode.
Arena commander released 2014 june, still FPS mode in hangar, FPS mode on eject, flying ships added.
Planetside modulde-only FPS
Boarding-mainly FPS
...

This is really sad now... I didn't back SC because I wanted to play a FPS game, cause I hate fps games. I backed because I wanted a space-sim with the SQ42 single player campaign in, with also the potential for a persistent universe. It's sad which direction the project has gone.

 

[Memnoch]

I think most people havent really tried to play AC and tried to learn it. If they cant adapt to sth. new than they are doomed.

I don't think its a simple case of adapting to something new. Its more a case of being told one thing and then the developers doing another. If they had mentioned during the KS that the game would play best with mouse and keyboard rather than a stick/HOTAS, no doubt this would have set alarm bells ringing. Perhaps this was not the intention all along but they have been pushed down this route during development.

 

[Aleksej]

I don't think its a simple case of adapting to something new. Its more a case of being told one thing and then the developers doing another. If they had mentioned during the KS that the game would play best with mouse and keyboard rather than a stick/HOTAS, no doubt this would have set alarm bells ringing. Perhaps this was not the intention all along but they have been pushed down this route during development.

Exactly no one said earlier that the game is best played with KB/M.

As for adapting. I do not have problems with adapting, the game is very simplistic. No skills are required to get to Wave 12. As for Wave 13 - all enemies start shooting missiles at you, which you had little chance to avoid prior 12.3 update. And after playing for about 20-30 minutes in 12.3 reaching Wave 13, a bug occurred and I had to stop playing due to that bug. Until that moment everything is so repetitive - simply turn to face your enemy and destroy it. And now I simply do not want to waist another 20-30 minutes just to get to Wave 13 again to try again.

 

[Severian]

I don't think its a simple case of adapting to something new. Its more a case of being told one thing and then the developers doing another. If they had mentioned during the KS that the game would play best with mouse and keyboard rather than a stick/HOTAS, no doubt this would have set alarm bells ringing. Perhaps this was not the intention all along but they have been pushed down this route during development.

Yep, and also it's not like it's something "new" that needs adapting too either. I've been playing computer games since the 70's, and this FPS in space is nothing "new" believe me

 

[Olrik]

That's really funny to hear that CIG was working only two weeks on the gameplay. Sorry, but back in December 2013 CR stated that they already had a playable DFM, however being a perfectionist he did not want to release it in that state, he wanted to polish it. However, I see nothing polished in AC.

It's a fact,as previously mentioned.

Hangar module is complete non-sense gameplay wise. What is the deal of walking around the ships you can't fly?... The whole process of their developing shows money-centered approach instead of actual gameplay development.

It's so obvious.

Until that moment everything is so repetitive - simply turn to face your enemy and destroy it.

No surprise.In the game asteroids, the dogfight is close to inexistent.

 

[Tiggo]

.

I think most people havent really tried to play AC and tried to learn it. If they cant adapt to sth. new than they are doomed.

yes but what is the reason:

in ED i sat in my cockpit and IMEDIATLY had fun flying around. Cause it was fun, yet difficult (i crashed all my initial attempts to land that thing, even starting i crashed alot cause there was that bug where you ship was drafted to the right after start clearance) but still i had FUN. Fun led to interest to master to handle my little sidewinder beast.

In AC i sat in my cockpit, steared left, gummiballed to the left, tried to compensate, gummiballed to the right, hopping all over the place, thruster didnt seem to accelerate my ship at all, tried to fly around some asteroids etc. didnt connect to the game, no immersion, no FUN flying the ship, thus
less interest in "learning" how to handle the ship. It just felt unnatural to fly it and right now i dont bother flying it, untill its confirmed the ships are finally controllable with hotas.

then i will evaluate again.

 

[Stormprooter]

Just as a note, HOTAS/Stick support also sucks in DICE's FPS engine - Frostbite 2/3
Controlling Jets and Helicopters in Battlefield 3/4 with a HOTAS is horrible - exactly the same kinds of symptoms as with AC and CryEngine3 - far too much twitchiness when trying to make small corrections.
In the Battlefield games, the best controller for a Jet is a gamepad, and the best controller for a helicopter is the mouse.

EDIT: To qualify the above - this is only in my experience, and is my opinion.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

Love how people think that the course of development changed to fps centric where even the launch video is a first person based game. Nothing really changed Chris alwys wanted to go down the immersive route and even have ship boarding then he got the money and now he is doing it. Also the space genre also needs tactical and realistic fps combat too and it will get that because that's the direction of the fps module. To create a more rainbow like experience.

But everything is drama here so i am really unmotivated to share info here anymore because people keep comparing both projects that have completely different factors and objectives which doesn't make sense. On top of that CIG's entire QA sucks apparently and so does CIG due to their bad management. Also their huge singleplayer script is unprofessional because they couldn't see the future that a ship needed to be longer due to the script changing and the needs being different.

I try to give accurate and proper info about CIG and SC but it really doesn't seem to help anyone.

 

[Aleksej]

Love how people think that the course of development changed to fps centric where even the launch video is a first person based game. Nothing really changed Chris alwys wanted to go down the immersive route and even have ship boarding then he got the money and now he is doing it. Also the space genre also needs tactical and realistic fps combat too and it will get that because that's the direction of the fps module. To create a more rainbow like experience.

But everything is drama here so i am really unmotivated to share info here anymore because people keep comparing both projects that have completely different factors and objectives which doesn't make sense. On top of that CIG's entire QA sucks apparently and so does CIG due to their bad management. Also their huge singleplayer script is unprofessional because they couldn't see the future that a ship needed to be longer due to the script changing and the needs being different.

I try to give accurate and proper info about CIG and SC but it really doesn't seem to help anyone.

It seems to me that if a lot of people think that the game in its current state resembles FPS then there might be a problem. There is no smoke without fire.

This reaction should make CR start thinking if he has chosen the right way.

 

[forger]

But everything is drama here so i am really unmotivated to share info here anymore because people keep comparing both projects that have completely different factors and objectives which doesn't make sense.

please do share info and educate us

but your statement is not true - i always point out current problems, those are SC fans that always argue with me like "it's pre-alpha", "it's not even a game, it's a game within a game", "but ED uses their own engine!", "but ED has 250 developers from very beginning", "but ED is unrealistic", "but ED has broken all newtonian laws" etc. etc. etc.

like i already said, i do not want ED nr.2, but i want game that i want to play as in the end that's the only thing that matters for me. and if i love space sims and do not want to even launch AC then something there is wrong (and not with me)

p.s. i am reading some older CR answers to fans and some of them are hilarious, not in a bad way but in a way i do feel about them now

 

[Mr.Nowak]

please do share info and educate us

but your statement is not true - i always point out current problems, those are SC fans that always argue with me like "it's pre-alpha", "it's not even a game, it's a game within a game", "but ED uses their own engine!", "but ED has 250 developers from very beginning", "but ED is unrealistic", "but ED has broken all newtonian laws" etc. etc. etc.

like i already said, i do not want ED nr.2, but i want game that i want to play as in the end that's the only thing that matters for me. and if i love space sims and do not want to even launch AC then something there is wrong (and not with me)

p.s. i am reading some older CR answers to fans and some of them are hilarious, not in a bad way but in a way i do feel about them now

It is true. You can't properly compare the the two projects. The comparison will be flawed both ways. It makes no sense what so ever. Making a game is not a race against another game nor a competition especially in such a small space game sector. Both DB and CR said that it's for the best that there are more space games. They don't want them both compared they want them to be their own things.

Let them be it while giving feedback on each game instead of comparing them.

--

Erin Roberts got killed in the MP while testing lol.

Spoiler

 

[Tiggo]

Erin Roberts got killed in the MP while testing lol.

Spoiler

1433 points! tripple strike! chazoong!


^^

 

[Aleksej]

please do share info and educate us

but your statement is not true - i always point out current problems, those are SC fans that always argue with me like "it's pre-alpha", "it's not even a game, it's a game within a game", "but ED uses their own engine!", "but ED has 250 developers from very beginning", "but ED is unrealistic", "but ED has broken all newtonian laws" etc. etc. etc.

like i already said, i do not want ED nr.2, but i want game that i want to play as in the end that's the only thing that matters for me. and if i love space sims and do not want to even launch AC then something there is wrong (and not with me)

p.s. i am reading some older CR answers to fans and some of them are hilarious, not in a bad way but in a way i do feel about them now

People simply do not notice one thing. Both games started KS campaign at about the same time with some videos describing how the final game should look like. However, something strange has happened after that. DB said what should we expect from the game and when Alpha was released we have received the game exactly as we were promised. CR was also speaking of what should be expected and probably has the best PR campaign in the video game history but the result is completely different. The same people who have understood DB correctly somehow have completely misunderstood CR. Isn't it strange? And the only conclusion that can be made here is that CR did not keep his promises and CIG has released something completely different from what was stated earlier.

Blaming fans for the rushed release of AC was very unwise from CR. This has caused the loss of respect to CR. This was the case when admitting mistakes would have been very wise and could have added some support to CIG, he would definitely not lose support from the most loyal fans, however this would have added respect from disappointed fans.

I admit that CIG had marvelous PR campaign promising lots of nice and shiny things for a little more than 1.5 years. This has given them required support from the fans. AC - was the first release that should have proven that all the nice and shiny words said during PR campaign are backed by their passion, hardworking and experience. Unfortunately, this is definitely not the case. It is like they have released what they had in the state that existed - unpolished, unready and definitely not in the state CR promised numerous times.

I perfectly remember how they were preparing themselves for PAX, WMH for 10-15 minutes - everyone is fixing AC for PAX. It was more like in a few days before they have remembered that the should show at least something at PAX. Exactly the same has happened when AC was due to release. It seems that they were resting on laurels since PAX and the date of release remembered that the game has major issues and if released in this state everyone would bury them alive. So they have rashly fixed major issues that would prevent everyone from playing and released the game in the state it was released. Unfortunately, I really cannot see any passion in AC release from CIG.

Exactly this makes all current PR, lore publication etc. useless until they start proving that they are on the path of redemption of such poor quality AC.

 

[Stormprooter]

EDIT: Removed

 

[cptzipzap]

Do you get a 'twitchy' response when using a HOTAS? By this I mean exaggerated movements when trying to perform small pitch, roll and yaw corrections?

What HOTAS are you using?

it was horrible at first. horrible is not strong enough, it felt stupid and bad. I was 10 seconds before just selling all my SC ships - really I am not lying. Than I spent 3 days on the SC forums being angry that its unplayable.
And I lost faith in the community cause some guys really were praising the ship control and flying style. I thought they are 100% crazy and pretend its nice cause they probably spent 1000$ on it..

but I tried again a few days later first with mouse (I thought to myself: ok then SC will be a mouse game whatever at least I can "play" it that way... ) and then somehow I accepted the flight model and switched back to Joystick, and now I treat the Ships like cars or motorcycles. I brake in turns etc I dont go full max turns or full max speeds - and I get better every day. Its not easy without proper response (sound wise) but the FM fits now like a glove. and all 3 ships behave differently. I now think Mouse is still a bit faster than JS, but personally do only play JS cause flying itself is just better.

configuration of axis and buttons is done via xml..

 

[cptzipzap]

yes but what is the reason:

in ED i sat in my cockpit and IMEDIATLY had fun flying around. Cause it was fun, yet difficult (i crashed all my initial attempts to land that thing, even starting i crashed alot cause there was that bug where you ship was drafted to the right after start clearance) but still i had FUN. Fun led to interest to master to handle my little sidewinder beast.

In AC i sat in my cockpit, steared left, gummiballed to the left, tried to compensate, gummiballed to the right, hopping all over the place, thruster didnt seem to accelerate my ship at all, tried to fly around some asteroids etc. didnt connect to the game, no immersion, no FUN flying the ship, thus
less interest in "learning" how to handle the ship. It just felt unnatural to fly it and right now i dont bother flying it, untill its confirmed the ships are finally controllable with hotas.

then i will evaluate again.

I went mad at first with the oversteering. really mad and angry too.. couldnt touch it after it for a while.

I give you another reason: ED has the same logic behind controls than any other space game before. what you input as control is directly what you get (with a linear function altering the numbers a bit). SC goes another approach. theres a middle man now - the IFCS - it has to interpret what you want and does the best to fulfil the wishes. if you play against your ifcs the ship goes nuts, if you play in its hands it works with a little rebelling here and there.

And its totally new. and horrible at first to accept it. I can understand many people that wont bother with it, but they dont do themselve a favor for not trying. Its not so hard. 2-3 days with positive attitude and you are pretty much as quick as with mouse..

I dont wanna sound like those religious sect guys and in the end I really dont care who likes what or what not, but as space sim fans I at least try it one time: review it with a positive attitude. toy around in Free flight and external view and look at the thrusters - get a feel..