The Star Citizen Thread v5

[GaryII]

True, multiplayer makes lot of EVA stuff challenging. That's why FD starts with multicrew

Very true, that why I am no sure how FD can make multicrew appealing and fun.
Currently I can pilot Anaconda (or any ship) without any issues without additional help.
So why I need multicrew ?! I better invite my friends with their ships = much more firepower then one muticrew Conda.

What other pilots will do on one ship:
1) pilot fighter?! Ok...
2) shot turrets?! maybe..
3) ... hmmm

From SC gameplay...I doubt that co-pilot roles can be very fun... EVA repair..no thanks..

 

[Zetta]

One advantage of Roberts' bragging about how tyrannical he is when it comes to getting his own way is that he's setting himself up to be the focus of all blame should the whole thing burn (not that it would stop him from blaming everyone but himself, of course).

You know this will be the case. Quite recently he paved the way for this by saying he hoped the community would continue to support him so he can realise his vision (aka buy spaceships).
All he'll do is say the community's tenacity and faith did not align with his own... (which is basically what he used to say about massively overrun and overspent publisher backed projects iirc)

 

[Stigbob]

You know this will be the case. Quite recently he paved the way for this by saying he hoped the community would continue to support him so he can realise his vision (aka buy spaceships).
All he'll do is say the community's tenacity and faith did not align with his own... (which is basically what he used to say about massively overrun and overspent publisher backed projects iirc)

And he's already set Derek Smart up to be the FUD spreader who stopped him receiving the needed funding to complete the game in his letter to the Escapist.

 

[Klyn]

Regarding the speed limits:

At least Elite did that do deliver the promised close combat WW2-style of dogfighting. In SC you get turreting in space. With speed limits.

 

[dumbo]

What other pilots will do on one ship:
1) pilot fighter?! Ok...
2) shot turrets?! maybe..
3) ... hmmm

A lot of time in ED is spent in supercruise (especially for explorers/traders), so my own feeling is that rebuilding Super-cruise is what FD should have focused on for multi-crew. Basically we have beautiful systems to fly around, and yet flying around is pointless busywork. Let us 'navigate' around a system, pick an optimal route, avoid that hostile faction, dodge the fuzz, slingshot off a planet [etc].

But, I think multi-crew will be more along the lines of 'flying a fighter/using turrets' and 'doing system navigation/target selection'.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Very true, that why I am no sure how FD can make multicrew appealing and fun.
Currently I can pilot Anaconda (or any ship) without any issues without additional help.
So why I need multicrew ?! I better invite my friends with their ships = much more firepower then one muticrew Conda.

What other pilots will do on one ship:
1) pilot fighter?! Ok...
2) shot turrets?! maybe..
3) ... hmmm

From SC gameplay...I doubt that co-pilot roles can be very fun... EVA repair..no thanks..

But I guess it will be done in a way so you won't be forced to do multicrew to enjoy game

 

[Komemiute]

But I guess it will be done in a way so you won't be forced to do multicrew to enjoy game

This.
I can see turrets as something quite important. But not only.
Science station in the cockpit for scanning stellar bodies (with inferred a slight revision on how surface scan happens - which incidentally can be done in SP as well by fitting the right module).
Another thing would be (for me) EVA for recovering "loot" from wreckage.
I'd like some manned controls for Limpets.
Of course a refined system for Ship Launched Fighters.

Damage control party? Maybe, but that would mean that without a human in the ship you're forced to sustain damage alone? Maybe you will be able to deputy some of the crew to that?

All in all I really trust FD vision- especially considering the good they did so far.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Whatever gameplay they (CIG as FD) put in it, I find hard to see multicrew as something viable without a NPC crew equivalent.

Spacelegs: FDEV's "no artificial gravity approach" can help make the difference with the competition as experience can be sensibly different in zero-g / low-g / strong-g. As much as I can't wait to wander inside my ships (even as basic as glorified model viewer SC's Hangar is), I'm more interested in gameplay in environments a ship or a SRV can't go: scavenging wreckages, retrieve things or someone in abandonned stations, exploring and acquiring data in alien ruins, exfiltrate prisoner of a jail...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

A lot of time in ED is spent in supercruise (especially for explorers/traders), so my own feeling is that rebuilding Super-cruise is what FD should have focused on for multi-crew. Basically we have beautiful systems to fly around, and yet flying around is pointless busywork. Let us 'navigate' around a system, pick an optimal route, avoid that hostile faction, dodge the fuzz, slingshot off a planet [etc].

Problem is none what you named really work in space vastness. There's no obstruction in space, thus territorial control doesn't make much sense in that regard. You can already slingshot off a planet to get speed, but still distances are so wast that that makes little sense too. 3D map would help with understanding our location, but as long as you have nav marker, you just point in right direction and slide.

However considering though improvements of signal sources, interdiction mechanic and persistent POIs, along with more BGS feedback, I wouldn't call flying around in supercruise pointless busywork anymore. It's a matter of small strokes and improvements which makes huge canvas to become alive.

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Whatever gameplay they (CIG as FD) put in it, I find hard to see multicrew as something viable without a NPC crew equivalent.

Spacelegs: FDEV's "no artificial gravity approach" can help make the difference with the competition as experience can be sensibly different in zero-g / low-g / strong-g. As much as I can't wait to wander inside my ships (even as basic as glorified model viewer SC's Hangar is), I'm more interested in gameplay in environments a ship or a SRV can't go: scavenging wreckages, retrieve things or someone in abandonned stations, exploring and acquiring data in alien ruins, exfiltrate prisoner of a jail...

NPC crew equivalent problem is balancing one.

 

[Komemiute]

Look, I cannot promise you'll like what's here but...
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...letter-to-cig-from-someone-who-actually-cares

worth a read.

I for one was actually into the letter (even with some glaring issues), and I was kinda sure the vast majority of the backers would understand, agree and collectively support it to no other mean that simply push CIG/RSI/Chroberts to finally break the mold and move!

Boy I was wrong.

 

[Skizomeuh]

NPC crew equivalent problem is balancing one.

True. I always felt multicrew as a niche component for a niche player category in an already niche-y game. Being able to somewhat experience the feature in solo would help make the efforts, risks, time and money worthy.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

True. I always felt multicrew as a niche component for a niche player category in an already niche-y game. Being able to somewhat experience the feature in solo would help make the efforts, risks, time and money worthy.

Considering we already have NPC pilots, I think they want to do that, but they will do it in stages, with balancing in mind.

I wouldn't call multicrew niche though. Lot of players play ED for playing together with others.

 

[Neo-ST]

Look, I cannot promise you'll like what's here but...
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...letter-to-cig-from-someone-who-actually-cares

worth a read.

I for one was actually into the letter (even with some glaring issues), and I was kinda sure the vast majority of the backers would understand, agree and collectively support it to no other mean that simply push CIG/RSI/Chroberts to finally break the mold and move!

Boy I was wrong.

It's always the same. You can't expect to attack someone's investment with truth, then expect objectivity and reason from them. It's a genetically built in impulse to protect the investment, regardless of facts.

You'll see these guys singing a different song only when they arrive at the last point of no return. Until then, there's hope, concept art and pre-scripted videos that they'll firmly hold on to as comfort.

 

[Stigbob]

It's always the same. You can't expect to attack someone's investment with truth, then expect objectivity and reason from them. It's a genetically built in impulse to protect the investment, regardless of facts.

You'll see these guys singing a different song only when they arrive at the last point of no return. Until then, there's hope, concept art and pre-scripted videos that they'll firmly hold on to as comfort.

Some will never reach that point, I'm expecting to see :

"Chris is still working on the vision in his spare time"
"Chris is a millionaire he's financing completing the vision on his own"
"The assets are so valuable it's just a matter of time before another developer buys it up and hires Chris to complete it"

 

[Komemiute]

Some will never reach that point, I'm expecting to see :

"Chris is still working on the vision in his spare time"
"Chris is a millionaire he's financing completing the vision on his own"
"The assets are so valuable it's just a matter of time before another developer buys it up and hires Chris to complete it"

*Siiigh* Too true to be good.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Yep, 'space legs' for the purpose of immersion is called tedium.

Like a lot of people, I would like to walk around (inside/outside) my ship in ED. But, also like a lot of people, I don't want to *have* to walk around my ship. Spending 3+ minutes just getting to the station airlock would get old, fast.

As opposed to the "tedium" of Supercruise in Elite because of 1-1 galaxy guff? Spending 3 minutes staring at a pixel as number scroll down get's old really fast.

 

[BurnyBurns]

As opposed to the "tedium" of Supercruise in Elite because of 1-1 galaxy guff? Spending 3 minutes staring at a pixel as number scroll down get's old really fast.

And it would so even faster if at the start and end of it, for whatever fulfilling or unfulfilling action you do currently, you had another 10 minutes of walking simulator to slog through.

 

[Neo-ST]

Some will never reach that point, I'm expecting to see :

"Chris is still working on the vision in his spare time"
"Chris is a millionaire he's financing completing the vision on his own"
"The assets are so valuable it's just a matter of time before another developer buys it up and hires Chris to complete it"

That's the last line of damage control force, such as Orlando and alikes

Spoiler

 

[Toumal]

Look, I cannot promise you'll like what's here but...
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...letter-to-cig-from-someone-who-actually-cares

worth a read.

As the years went by, many other games tried to copy and latch on to CIG’s success, such as Elite Dangerous and No Man’s Sky. Some with more success than others. Many figured that all they had to do was make a “space game” and get there first and they would succeed. Almost all of them missed what made CIG and Star Citizen so successful despite the game not even being out and having many, many, issues and delays. Things like the 100% true transparency of the development. The access to the developers and decision makers. The truly innovative levels of reverse innovation that existed in the early years of the development. But most importantly, the level of trust the was earned between developer and customer.

It's confirmed: we're living in a split universe, with alternate realities running side by side. Because otherwise I have no idea where he got to see the alleged transparency or the "reverse innovation" (I was not aware that Star Citizen was developed in a third world country)

The things he takes issues with are often non-consequential stuff, like what ship is in what package or the way they sell merchandize. How come he's not fazed by the TOS change? The flight mechanics? The stability issues? The glaring spin show they put on with Star Marine, when they claimed it's weeks and not months, then cancel it, then say it isn't canceled but in the game already, then say they're gonna do it again, then do it and it's nowhere near as deep as what they already had earlier from Ilfonic.

No, that letter is firmly rooted in la-la-land. I mean, NOW you complain about the lack of progress? I thought it just takes time, and we ought to just wait forever? Wasn't that the spiel? "Even if SC never releases, it's already the best game ever" fans wrote, not too long ago.

 

[knowles2]

Biggest improvements that will come in Multi Crew for ED should be much much better instancing.

But until we can do raids, free prisoners, capture base scanarios, infiltrate, ship take over by passengers, I don't see the point, it just another piece in elite dangerous puzzle that the player base will find some use for.

Same as space legs, the balancing will be allowing to people who just want to stay in their ships the ability to stay in their ships and do everything, whilst also giving something extra for those who want to walk about, easier exploration of caves which braben pretty much confirm coming in the 24hr live stream, or finding secret missions amongst the space station crew such as tip off for lost cargo ships, secret bases, or just general gossip that might lead to something if you decide to follow it.

- - - Updated - - -

Some will never reach that point, I'm expecting to see :

"Chris is still working on the vision in his spare time"
"Chris is a millionaire he's financing completing the vision on his own"
"The assets are so valuable it's just a matter of time before another developer buys it up and hires Chris to complete it"

I could imagine someone buying up the assets.

But no publisher or game company in the gaming industry will ever work with or hire Christ, he destroyed his reputation in the gaming industry in the 90s and early 00s. They will instead bring in a team specifically geared up to get the project out of the door and money rolling in to repay their buy out costs, which will be cents on a dollar of the 140 million plus put in to the project to date.