The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Asp Explorer]

There are lulzbuckets everywhere if you know where to look

 

[Osmanthus]

You'd never be forced to use micro jumps, you know? But other players who are at the mercy of the missions the current system generates are forced to point their ship somewhere and do nothing unless they avoid the particular parts of the game altogether.

Just like it'd be a great solution to offer missions from the board in the ship bridge, but optionally have the opportunity to walk up to the mission giver, for both Star Citizen and Elite. Offer a good game to those that would like it, while also offer those who want to take their time for whatever they require for immersion the option to do that.

I sympathize very much with your position and I wouldn't mind seeing improvements to supercruise (though I also don't mind the current system either), but I've really never bought the argument that "you're not forced to use [a particular mechanic". It's a copout argument.

By that logic one could argue that FD should implement a button that instantly deposits 100 million credits into the players bank account. It'll help skip the boring bits for those who don't want to be forced to find some way to earn that money, and for those concerned with immersion or to take their time - they're not forced to use it! Everybody wins.

 

[frostypaw]

There's no skill based mechanic to avoid that, no stealth mechanics in supercruise etc

this isn't true. avoiding interdiction and routes of travel through a system definitely are things already

sure you can just point and go - it's open space what's to stop you - but it's not your only option.

People need to remember this is a space game, not trekking across the Swamp Of K'grysok where all paths must go around the Great Forest Of Sadness. this implies certain rules and laws or it becomes a different game.

And to go back to Star Citizen, travel is another blind spot there. There's the in-system jumps between POIs and there's the kinda somehow inter system worm holes. How do you interdict ships in in-system jumps? How much time does travel between systems take etc.?

It's all pretty screwy isn't it! I had to snort when NMS(username) came to complain about ED's supercruise taking a while... it is rare journeys in it are that long and NMS(game) has it's share of long boring journeys. Beyond that SC's limited 0.2c speed means intersystem and cross system travel is going to take AGES and it'll still just be a distant planet to look at - as designed it sounds extremely tedious to cross any distance in SC

 

[Barking_Mad]

Off topic, but I think the draw of multi-crew will be doing stuff with friends in the same ship. Sounds obvious but I think there will be much fun to be had (outside any game mechanics) from just being in the same ship and experiencing the same journey and events. Sure, driving down the motorway can be boring, but with a good friend in the car its far more interesting and you make your own fun, share stories etc. This part imo has been somewhat overlooked. That said I hope there are some interesting mechanics outside it as well as missions and combat that require the multi-crew ship.

Combat wise I suspect this can be done by beefing up the opposition and getting a decent balance against NPC's that require all of you working together to defeat NPC multicrew ships. Then there's maybe some missions involving the SRV, SLF and main ship. Single player versions already exist in so far as you have to knock out defences and generators etc, before downloading data. No reason that time limit cant be reduced and have one person/people in SRV(s) doing a task, whilst someone in a SLF takes out point defences and the pilot of the ship keeps an NPC ship from taking people out. Maybe when legs come this expands to entering buidings and taking data whilst your buddies stop any incoming enemies.

Edit: Prety sure NPC multi-crew crew will be a thing at some point as there's probably good reason those other NPC crew members you can hire can only sit in a station on shore leave at the moment.....

 

[BurnyBurns]

I sympathize very much with your position and I wouldn't mind seeing improvements to supercruise (though I also don't mind the current system either), but I've really never bought the argument that "you're not forced to use [a particular mechanic". It's a copout argument.

Just as much as the argument I was responding too: "If whatever I am doing is so tedious I'd just do something else in the game, or if that fails, not play that game." You simply chose to point out the argument where it doesn't fit what you might personally prefer.

By that logic one could argue that FD should implement a button that instantly deposits 100 million credits into the players bank account. It'll help skip the boring bits for those who don't want to be forced to find some way to earn that money, and for those concerned with immersion or to take their time - they're not forced to use it! Everybody wins.

And it's not asking for an instant win button, it's asking for a minimum measure of sense in game design. Pointing a mouse and going on for half an hour without input is not game design. It's lack thereof.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I have never understood the desire to skip the flying space ships in the flying space ships game. Supercruse is what makes ED an amazing game, with out it it would just be a connection of small rooms, and people would really complain about how it all feels the same.

Agreed. I think for many the fun of just flying your ship in Elite is underplayed somewhat.

 

[darkoff]

Off topic, but there's a bunch of improvements coming in 2.2.03.

Michael

I actually have a question.

Do you see it possible to have 1000+ man instances . In open world space game. that has fps and space combat happening in same instance
With assumption that each of 100 systems will have its own server.
And if it was possible what would the cost's be for 100 of those server's?

After all there has to be a reason (cost) why Frontier did opt for p2p networking solution, instead of building 1000 man server's

ps.
p2p will screw up the multicrew, regardless of the improvements.
Let say a european player with 3 man american crew jumps into system filled with 10 players from europe.
Will the player continue seeing his american crew members? or will those american crew members just disappear
Or will that mixed crew ship be forever shunned from populated instances.

 

[Osmanthus]

Just as much as the argument I was responding too: "If whatever I am doing is so tedious I'd just do something else in the game, or if that fails, not play that game." You simply chose to point out the argument where it doesn't fit what you might personally prefer.

You're right of course. For the record, I don't subscribe to the argument you were responding to, so I think both arguments are inappropriate. I agree that supercruise could be improved so that it allows *all* styles of play.

And it's not asking for an instant win button, it's asking for a minimum measure of sense in game design. Pointing a mouse and going on for half an hour without input is not game design. It's lack thereof.

I know, but my point wasn't about an instant win button, it attacked the argument itself rather than its motivation. The instant win button is an illustration of why the argument fails. I agree with the motivation. I disagree that "if you don't like it, don't use it".

edit: and I'm not against microjumps in-system! I quite like the idea. But imo it should contain some kind of cost.

 

[dumbo]

Supercruise is essential to the feel of the game. Without Supercruise there is no space. It just turns into a (boring) boxed level game like the X series, EVE, etc.

Walking is essential for an FPS game, riding on a horse is essential for the witcher 3. But those are interactive and somewhat interesting/enjoyable - you make choices to manage risk/reward etc. In ED, supercruise is basically 'point your ship at the target and get a cup of tea' - with a flat N% risk of getting interdicted.

I don't want to get rid of supercruise. But this is perhaps the most important component of the game, and yet it doesn't really have any gameplay associated with it .

 

[Cotic]

Walking is essential for an FPS game, riding on a horse is essential for the witcher 3. But those are interactive and somewhat interesting/enjoyable - you make choices to manage risk/reward etc. In ED, supercruise is basically 'point your ship at the target and get a cup of tea' - with a flat N% risk of getting interdicted.

I don't want to get rid of supercruise. But this is perhaps the most important component of the game, and yet it doesn't really have any gameplay associated with it .

But's that space's fault not Elite's. If space wasn't so big and there wasn't so much distance between planets then it might be different

What sort of things do you have in mind to make supercruising more appealing for you?

 

[Skizomeuh]

Walking is essential for an FPS game, riding on a horse is essential for the witcher 3. But those are interactive and somewhat interesting/enjoyable - you make choices to manage risk/reward etc.

Basically you want obstacles and intersections/corridors in space? Because apart from that, essentially you're pointing in a direction in a FPS or Witcher 3, and encounters along the way are Elite's interdictions

 

[1500]

Walking is essential for an FPS game, riding on a horse is essential for the witcher 3. But those are interactive and somewhat interesting/enjoyable - you make choices to manage risk/reward etc. In ED, supercruise is basically 'point your ship at the target and get a cup of tea' - with a flat N% risk of getting interdicted.

I don't want to get rid of supercruise. But this is perhaps the most important component of the game, and yet it doesn't really have any gameplay associated with it .

And those games also have moments of just point in the direction and go. Any time you have a large open word you are going to have travel times and sections of gameplay that nothing happens in. Happens in GTA, Skyrim (all the past eldercrolls games), WoW (all MMO's). That is the nature of larger worlds.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I actually have a question.

Do you see it possible to have 1000+ man instances . In open world space game. that has fps and space combat happening in same instance
With assumption that each of 100 systems will have its own server.
And if it was possible what would the cost's be for 100 of those server's?

There's no 1000 player instances in any game, Planetside 2 included. It uses meta instancing, interesting hybrid system to give impression of huge battlefield. That is not however goal of this game though.

After all there has to be a reason (cost) why Frontier did opt for p2p networking solution, instead of building 1000 man server's

There's no such servers, and client/server certainly has it's limitations too. As for peer to peer, running costs are biggest problem for such niche games. I can't imagine how much SC will cost and how much money it will require per month to run.

ps.
p2p will screw up the multicrew, regardless of the improvements.
Let say a european player with 3 man american crew jumps into system filled with 10 players from europe.
Will the player continue seeing his american crew members? or will those american crew members just disappear
Or will that mixed crew ship be forever shunned from populated instances.

First of all, ED matches players based on their latency rating and how it impacts 'health' of instance. If impact is too great, player won't be joined. Exceptions are wings or private group. So directly, in open play, chances for European meeting American are quite slim (till internet improves, which might happen in future) - they will just lag each other out.

So in Open most likely you will play with Europeans and you will jump into instancing with Europeans. If anything happens, FD will again determine 'health' of instance and will try to keep it healthy.

As for multicrew what is major point of it that all players in wing will be relatively static related to each other. That means updates can be changed very differently, and it means way less traffic for multicrew scenario.

 

[frostypaw]

In ED, supercruise is basically 'point your ship at the target and get a cup of tea' - with a flat N% risk of getting interdicted.

Simply not true. It's entirely possible to fly around and avoid interdictions and engage in tactics in supercruise.

The fact that you choose not to doesn't stop it existing.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Simply not true. It's entirely possible to fly around and avoid interdictions and engage in tactics in supercruise.

The fact that you choose not to doesn't stop it existing.

Yeah, while interdictions are more balanced now, I might get cup of tea ready when I play ED, but I can't really let sight of it or turn volume down...also I am exploring signal sources more and more.

Supercruise is way to travel accross huge canvas that is Milky Way galaxy. As game is developed futher, it is filled with more and more details. Supercruise is just future proofing we can actually travel to all potential new places in future, without redesigning game.

 

[BurnyBurns]

And those games also have moments of just point in the direction and go. Any time you have a large open word you are going to have travel times and sections of gameplay that nothing happens in. Happens in GTA, Skyrim (all the past eldercrolls games), WoW (all MMO's). That is the nature of larger worlds.

That's a bit of a fallacy. Just point & go? On any ground open world game, that's not possible. You're constantly required to control your character or vehicle, otherwise won't go anywhere but inot a wall, down a cliff etc.. Crossing open space in Elite, bar cheesy interdictions of ships spawning behind you, does not require any input other than point your mouse somewhere and that's it.

What do even today's vehicles, especially planes, in our actual reality offer to the driver, when they have to maintain a monotonous course over a long period of time? It starts with auto and ends with pilot.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Meanwhile in Crytek corner things get very hairy

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/12/20/crytek-closes-five-studios-after-failing-to-pay-workers/

Ouch

- - - Updated - - -

That's a bit of a fallacy. Just point & go? On any ground open world game, that's not possible. You're constantly required to control your character or vehicle, otherwise won't go anywhere but inot a wall, down a cliff etc.. Crossing open space in Elite, bar cheesy interdictions of ships spawning behind you, does not require any input other than point your mouse somewhere and that's it.

What do even today's vehicles, especially planes, in our actual reality offer to the driver, when they have to maintain a monotonous course over a long period of time? It starts with auto and ends with pilot.

How recently you have played game I shall ask? Because recently I haven't seen any NPC spawning behind. it is usually NPC is spawned a distance at the front of me, and I can see it breaking vector, changing direction and positioning itself behind me. Sometimes I avoid them, sometimes I am not.

Also I will personally argue that natual breaks supercuise offer - and they are not that long - and way it ties universe together feels very good to me. I understand people who play ED for spaceships, but it's not that type of game. But that's already very deep into offtopic territory.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Daddy, daddy, are we nearly at the Star Citizen discussion yet?

If you ask me that one more time I'm going to turn this kickstarter around and refund all your jpegs!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Btw, Derek posted this SM footage with some good old server bugs - as it is dated 20th Dec, I doubt we will see 22th Dec release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeHOqy_Og6c

Also as suspected shaking holographic interface while running is nausea inducing.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Daddy, daddy, are we nearly at the Star Citizen discussion yet?

I will try So any news on the new flight model? (why I`m expecting bad news in reply...)