The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Zetta]

Actually 300,000: http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/FDEV/12209186.html

Ah interesting. I always thought there were more than that for the launch. According to this thread the numbers jumped to ~360,000 start of Feb, and then ~420,000 just prior to launching on Steam.

But last I remember SQ42 footage was only cut last minute because it wasnt polished enough for CRs taste and we could expect it "soon". How long ago was that again? 3 months? I recognize a pattern there...

That was only going to be demo footage with a lot of systems being built purely for the purpose of the demo. I seem to remember Roberts addressing this somewhere around the anniversary stream and saying that what they had been doing was basically a waste of time so they scrapped it...

 

[Tippis]

That was only going to be demo footage with a lot of systems being built purely for the purpose of the demo. I seem to remember Roberts addressing this somewhere around the anniversary stream and saying that what they had been doing was basically a waste of time so they scrapped it...

If only they had thought of that before wasting time on it…

 

[McGlashan]

So make-believe game-play again? Thats what comes up in my mind.....theres absolutely nothing to do in that alpha so people have to create their own scenarios which then is sold as "emergant gameplay". You can do that in pretty much every other game too, this isnt limited to SC nor does it make SC anything special.

The thing is, when people come up with these compelling tales of the extraordinary, emergent things which happened to them one day in Star Citizen it's always the exact same story. Someone sneaked aboard someone else's ship, hilarity ensued. Over and over again.

They never seem to stop to realise that the fact someone managed to sneak aboard is currently a limitation or bug, not a feature, and it's actually pretty stupid that those situations can occur, not commendable. Can you even lock your ship yet? Even if you could, people would just clip into them instead. If these people were breaching their way in, or hacking, or anything remotely resembling real gameplay (and yes I know both of those examples are "planned"), then it would be a different story. But they're not, because that would require some actual design and development effort (and if they were, you'd be able to defend against it).

 

[MTBFritz]

Because the Community saw them. And pretty threw Money at them like Crazy. Saying dont do a Small Game and then Patchwork it. But right from the Start go for the Damned Biggest Game there is xD

Again with the double standard. I think we established already that this "community" decision was voted by what....1000 people? At the same time pro-SC fans point out that thousands of people are a minority and dont speak for the community as a whole. Yet you try to mispresent it like the backers as a whole wanted this. This increase in scope was a company decision by Chris Roberts and is his responsebility. It also goes along well with the theory that it buys him MUCH more time without having to produce anything while rolling in the money. That has been years ago. Now even that "reservoir" of time has passed, infrastructure "should" be present as should be many of the fundamental mechanics yet for some reason development does not "ramp up" as promised.

Now we "jump" engine because hey, it ll buy em a couple more months to get attuned to the new engine and get everything over. Its just another carrot on the string.

 

[Zetta]

If only they had thought of that before wasting time on it…

Indeed.

You would have thought that if it was so close they would show it anyway just so fans could see a more up-to-date representation of what they were aiming for. At least then it wouldn't have been a total waste of time, money and dev hours.

 

[thorn-]

If only they had thought of that before wasting time on it…

Wasted time is a part of life in any production house. It's not a goal, but it's a reality.

Lucasfilms wasted over $60,000 in the early days of shooting EP1, as they were trying to create JarJar with prosthetics instead of CGI. I even recall a clip of Lucas berating John Knoll in a meeting about the wasted time and money. Knoll's reply was that at least they now had good lighting and shadow references for moving forward.

And in the end, JarJar sucked as a character anyway. But the movie was a financial success.

 

[Sunleader]

Again with the double standard. I think we established already that this "community" decision was voted by what....1000 people? At the same time pro-SC fans point out that thousands of people are a minority and dont speak for the community as a whole. Yet you try to mispresent it like the backers as a whole wanted this.

Actually I didnt say anything of the Sort lol.
I said they Threw Money at him.
No Offense. But I would not give a crab about some Votum of 1000 People.
The Votum I care about it that they threw Millions of Dollars at him which were far beyond anything that the Base Game could have possibly Cost if you wanted to have it Developed by 5 different Teams at the same Time for the Fun of it.


Maybe Stop always just Cherry Picking Single Lines. Then Maybe you stop always getting things I say wrong lol.

 

[MTBFritz]

Yes you are right under the "thats not my exact words" game then no you didnt say any of this. It also makes you a very tiring discussion partner because you just try to be difficult when you know exactly what I m talking about. The money the community "threw" at them was for finishing the KICKSTARTER VERSION. Where is that one then? Because THATS what you are talking about right? the 2million dollar version which bloated up to 65 million when stretch goals stopped and CR declared he has enough money to finish the whole thing? THAT throwing of money? Yep nowhere to be seen.

The Votum I care about it that they threw Millions of Dollars at him which were far beyond anything that the Base Game could have possibly Cost if you wanted to have it Developed by 5 different Teams at the same Time for the Fun of it.

There was no votum about this. The project was succesfull and raked in far more money and support then CR dreamed of. That does not equal "lets increase the scope and try for something impossible" because I m very sure thats not what the community had in mind when they threw money at him.

Maybe Stop always just Cherry Picking Single Lines. Then Maybe you stop always getting things I say wrong lol.

I dislike quoting whole posts especially if they are lengthy because its simply bloating up the whole thread with hot air. You can be assure I didnt pick a single line. I read the whole post and simply quoting everything simply to appease you that I did seems to be an equal waste of space in this back-and-forth.

I especially like the "lol" at the end of your post, you dont realize how that makes you appear

Next time try to be more exact in what you write and dont leave yourself so much wiggle room by being vague. Leave that to Chis Roberts he is a master at this kind of game.

 

[MTBFritz]

Wasted time is a part of life in any production house. It's not a goal, but it's a reality.

Lucasfilms wasted over $60,000 in the early days of shooting EP1, as they were trying to create JarJar with prosthetics instead of CGI. I even recall a clip of Lucas berating John Knoll in a meeting about the wasted time and money. Knoll's reply was that at least they now had good lighting and shadow references for moving forward.

And in the end, JarJar sucked as a character anyway. But the movie was a financial success.

Did you really just tried to compare Lucas Films with Star Citizen?

I cant even.....


Yes, yes I understand what you are trying to say but still how can you possibly believe that sort of thing is whats happening at SC? I ll continue with a few cue words

60.000 dollars
1 single character
no delay of the whole movie because of it

So this hickup is simply that.....a hick-up. Meanwhile CiG is talking about "blockers" without telling of their nature, keeps saying a lot without telling anything keeps pushing timeframes. Next you want to tell me its game development versus movie making. So why did you bring up the example in the first place?

Maybe you didnt notice but many people are not concerned with hick-ups because as you say....they happen and the community as a whole has shown that it is very patient and very forgiving. There are REAL concerns standing in the room about the project being doomed or not able to complete because of unanswered technical questions, impossible tasks, buggy features untouched since Arena mode and a whole list.....Stigbob, if you may?D). Its not even CLOSE to being comparable.

edit:
Making fun of Star Citizen and being sarcastic is whats left when you keep saying the same things over and over and turn in circles for years. Thats what actually happens in the SC threads here. The same old topics come up, the same old claims, the same old (unanswered) questions. The problem is that this circle stays static because the game itself doesnt progress in any meaningfull way. After a while you cant but make fun of it or ask the tough questions which for some reason enrage the SC-fans. And here we are...

 

[thorn-]

Did you really just tried to compare Lucas Films with Star Citizen?

Not really, no. I was illustrating how wasted time is a reality in production studios, by giving an example of wasted time in a well-respected studio.

But now that you mention it, the budget for Phantom Menace was $115 Million - and CIG is nearing that level of fundraising. So perhaps the comparison might be valid.

60.000 dollars
1 single character
no delay of the whole movie because of it

How are you aware that this didn't delay anything else in the production? Were you on staff with Lucasfilm? If so, I'd enjoy hearing more insider stories.

Maybe you didnt notice but many people are not concerned with hick-ups because as you say....they happen and the community as a whole has shown that it is very patient and very forgiving. There are REAL concerns standing in the room about the project being doomed or not able to complete because of unanswered technical questions, impossible tasks, buggy features untouched since Arena mode and a whole list.....

Dude. Your hysterics are showing. Take a breath, have a glass of wine.

 

[LeSabre]

Wasted time is a part of life in any production house. It's not a goal, but it's a reality.

Lucasfilms wasted over $60,000 in the early days of shooting EP1, as they were trying to create JarJar with prosthetics instead of CGI. I even recall a clip of Lucas berating John Knoll in a meeting about the wasted time and money. Knoll's reply was that at least they now had good lighting and shadow references for moving forward.

And in the end, JarJar sucked as a character anyway. But the movie was a financial success.

Was Lucasfilm wasting the publics money while not having a single product to their name, or were they using money they had earned from previous products sold over a very successful company lifetime?

At least Jarjar was part of a finished product and not like say, a very expensive automatic door and card reader.

- - - Updated - - -

How are you aware that this didn't delay anything else in the production? Were you on staff with Lucasfilm? If so, I'd enjoy hearing more insider stories.

Because the film came out on it's release date as expected.

 

[Stigbob]

a whole list.....Stigbob, if you may?D).

Ask and ye shall receive.

THE LIST

Initial release 2014 (didn't happen)
Ship sales (overpriced engineering debt)
Dates (all missed so far)
Flight model (man it's bad)
Likely completion decade (if at all)
Use of backer funds (the backers will never know)
Wild theory-crafting (everything not available to play)
Pay2win (it is)
Comparisons with ED (ED is the BDSSE)
NMS (going the same way)
Derek Smart (he was right)
Citcon 2016 (disastrous)
3.0 (not in 2016)
Refunds (get em while you can)
Scapegoating (Derek, Illphonic, leavers)
The new TOS (your money is ours we don't need to make a game)
Development start date (it was October 2011)
Star Marine (on again, off again, already in the game)
Illphonic (CiG gave them the wrong scale to work to)
RSI forum (cast out the unbelievers)
Freelancer (history repeating)
Underdog act (CiG/RSI are now a multinational multimillion dollar business)
Sandworms (Frank Herberts IP)
Coffee machines (Lol)
Blood oxygen levels (no space in the game)
Chris Roberts physics expert (he isn't)
Legalistic bluff called (the escapist)
Labelling backers (goon, special snowflakes, high maintenance, toxic dinks)
Accusations of corporate espionage (beer4thebeergod)
INN ( Run by a rep management company, less viewers than pgabz)
Star citizen subreddit (controversial tab concealed by default, brigading)
PG birds (scopecreep on the fly)
Handcrafted universe superior to PG (this may take some time)
Switching focus from handcrafting to PG (NMS/ED bandwagon)
PU neglected for SQ42 (vast majority of backers want PU)
CR thinks he's making a movie (repeatedly says "movie" when he means "game")
Mocap (hollywood obsession)
Build your own studio (repeatedly)
Expensive reshoots (repeatedly)
Renting the imaginarium (most expensive in the world)
"Original" artwork (other studios logo's still visible)
Ongoing scopecreep (cargocult)
Physical relocation to hollywood (they trade on the internet)
100 systems at launch (they'd need decades for this)
Tusken raiders (George lucas's IP)
Nipple jets (jetpacks not required for EVA)
Killer door control (no space in the game)
Refactoring (does not mean what you think it means)
Top Gun "inspired" stuff (Hornet ad and inverted finger)
Monthly patches (have never been monthly)
Tutorial broken ("fixed" by removing it completely)
Ships don't spawn correctly (very old bug)
Random ship explosion (very old bug)
Multicrew numbers exceed player maximum
FPS not impressive (in an FPS engine)
Animations are glitchy
No VR support (you can't just add it later)
The "patcher" is a complete download everytime
Chat UI unchanged (CR said it would be changed live)
Crash reporter not reporting information
Staff retention issues (leavers)
CR makes unrealistic demands (from the man himself)
Lack of internal coordination (seat numbers)
STOP SAYING 'VERSE (Joss Wheedon IP)
New ship direct copy from final fantasy (can't be bothered with CIG name)


SUB LIST THE CULT

Claim to be the voice of backers (actually internet loonies)
Greymarket (you can't say black market that sounds illegal)
Deterring customers (the prospect of playing a game with them)
Run a hate sub (r/dereksmart)
Hatesub moderators shared with greymarket (financial motive)
Interference with the ED forum (exposed gaming the rep system)
Brigading
Threats
Death threats
Abuse
Misinformation
Review bombing competition (LOD ED NMS COD:IW)
Journalist intimidation ("wah" clickbait)
Suppressing the truth (happily embrace positive lies)
Paranoia (they see Derek everywhere)
Encouraging purchases (whilst applying the above)
False claims about ED's development time
Yaw is not a dirty word
Living embodiment of the Streisand effect

 

[Maruun]

…especially since it must reasonably include features that apparently won't make their appearance before α4.0, which we might expect before the end of the year, which in turn is a deadline that even Chris said we shouldn't hold him to.

There is something that started to bother me with SQ42.

Will it play in one system only or will they make extra maps for each mission? Or will it play in the same systems that PU will have?
Because depending on what...it doesnt look good for SQ42 at all...

 

[thorn-]

Was Lucasfilm wasting the publics money while not having a single product to their name, or were they using money they had earned from previous products sold over a very successful company lifetime?

Irrelevant to the fact that wasted time happens with production studios.

[/QUOTE]Because the film came out on it's release date as expected.[/QUOTE]

True, but that doesn't mean there were problems and delays (wasted time, and hours, and dollars) that occurred during production.

Of note, Ep VIII's release has been delayed from May 26, 2017, to Dec. 15, 2017. I doubt that means that Disney is a company run by clueless scammers...

- - - Updated - - -

Will it play in one system only or will they make extra maps for each mission? Or will it play in the same systems that PU will have? Because depending on what...it doesnt look good for SQ42 at all...

"Depending on whether or not I get hit by a bus tomorrow, the week doesn't look very good."

"Depending on whether or not my lunch is poisoned next month, the year doesn't look very good."

You can do that all day, really.

 

[Stigbob]

Irrelevant to the fact that wasted time happens with production studios.

True, but that doesn't mean there were problems and delays (wasted time, and hours, and dollars) that occurred during production.

Of note, Ep VIII's release has been delayed from May 26, 2017, to Dec. 15, 2017. I doubt that means that Disney is a company run by clueless scammers...

When Ep VIII is three years past due and Disney refuse to give new dates because after missing the last one they're sulking, I'll complain about it. Do you not think Duke Nukem Forever would be a better comparison, we've even had an engine change (or not it's hard to tell with CIG) recently.

 

[Neo-ST]

While you're wasting time on this garbage, someone in ED ran into the aliens.
For real.

It all began with degradation of hyperspace jump...

I must say I got goosebumps when I saw that ship

 

[LeSabre]

Irrelevant to the fact that wasted time happens with production studios.

True, but that doesn't mean there were problems and delays (wasted time, and hours, and dollars) that occurred during production.

Of note, Ep VIII's release has been delayed from May 26, 2017, to Dec. 15, 2017. I doubt that means that Disney is a company run by clueless scammers...

They've had 6 (six) (VI) years so far, isn't it about time they stopped wasting time and money yet? Or are you completely at ease with just accepting poor results from people who waste a lot of money/time on hyping themselves constantly?

Doesn't matter if internally Lucasfilm may have had a delay, the final product was produced on time, within budget, and avaliable to all who wished to see it. Basically, any possible internal delays did not affect the final products stated release date, CIG have never once hit their stated release dates for anything.

Ep VIII's delay isn't of note to anything, they are funded by the completed products they have sold over how ever long Disney have been running (80 years?), they are not accountable to the public for delays, CIG are.

- - - Updated - - -

While you're wasting time on this garbage, someone in ED ran into the aliens.
For real.

It all began with degradation of hyperspace jump...

I must say I got goosebumps when I saw that ship

Thargoids be here

 

[Tippis]

Not really, no. I was illustrating how wasted time is a reality in production studios, by giving an example of wasted time in a well-respected studio.

There's a difference between trying something that doesn't work out, and wasting time on something that only serves the purpose of wasting time. What Lucas Film did was the former; what Chris is talking about is the latter. The latter is not something you should expect from a well-run — much less a well-respected — studio.

You're missing the point: they stopped wasting time on something because they realised it was only ever a waste of time. It had no value. It served no purpose. This is something they could have and should have realised beforehand, but which they incompetently did not. It is in no way comparable to an experiment that actually did serve a purpose.

 

[darkoff]

While you're wasting time on this garbage, someone in ED ran into the aliens.
For real.

It all began with degradation of hyperspace jump...

I must say I got goosebumps when I saw that ship

Remember when 3.0 was supposed to arrive before thargoids.

Good times...

 

[Neo-ST]

Remember when 3.0 was supposed to arrive before thargoids.

Good times...

LOL yeah, just shove it up on the shelf with their other lies and broken promises, stopped counting a long time ago...