Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

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Howdy All CMDRS,
Tonight I explored all the other bodies around our Ancient Ruins site and out in the sticks I came across a convoy... they jumped system to boldly go where barely anyone has gone before.
anyway I had a frame shift wake scanner and got a 10/4 on there jump system and I recorded it using nVidia exp. I thought great I will go finish up scanning the rest of these bodies and look back at my reference video for their high wake location.
To my surprise that video wasnt recorded even tho I made double sure by recording it twice and still I cant find it.

So I was thinking maybe a convoy in this system can lead us to another system where the other sites maybe....

Nice! Maybe they were put into the game to trigger after the CG was complete. Hopefully they will lead us somewhere...
 
I must say I have been really disappointed with the way the ruins 'mystery' has panned out...

I spent weeks/months scanning, measuring and photographing the ruins, trying to understand what their purpose might be and where other ruins might be. I went on long trips looking for ruins where my analyses suggested they might be.

Then the mission comes along and it seemed to me that in fact there was nothing to 'solve' about the ruins...it just got turned into another grind-fest where an NPC would be doing the analyses and he would tell us about the guardians. After a day or two I refused to partake in it despite the millions to be made from doing so. After all, other commanders had already discovered most of what there was to know (and none of which gave us clues as to other ruins).

And then came the CG...where the same NPC was going to analyse the data and point us to other ruins.

I don't normally criticise FD since I really love playing this game and have had a ball over the past year or so. I have always envisaged finding alien ruins in remote systems and having something to solve, some piece of the puzzle to add to the general knowledge of other life in the universe, be they thargoids, guardians or some other race...but this has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Frawd :(
 
I must say I have been really disappointed with the way the ruins 'mystery' has panned out...

I spent weeks/months scanning, measuring and photographing the ruins, trying to understand what their purpose might be and where other ruins might be. I went on long trips looking for ruins where my analyses suggested they might be.

Then the mission comes along and it seemed to me that in fact there was nothing to 'solve' about the ruins...it just got turned into another grind-fest where an NPC would be doing the analyses and he would tell us about the guardians. After a day or two I refused to partake in it despite the millions to be made from doing so. After all, other commanders had already discovered most of what there was to know (and none of which gave us clues as to other ruins).

And then came the CG...where the same NPC was going to analyse the data and point us to other ruins.

I don't normally criticise FD since I really love playing this game and have had a ball over the past year or so. I have always envisaged finding alien ruins in remote systems and having something to solve, some piece of the puzzle to add to the general knowledge of other life in the universe, be they thargoids, guardians or some other race...but this has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Frawd :(

The icing on the cake, for me at least, is that Ram Tahs message suggested that there are other ruins that could be found; but there are no tools to actually help narrow down such search (planetary scanners that would even suggest something was there in the first place, persistent poi's that show up on the scanner, etc.). For crying out loud, the mission given by him doesn't even tell you the system or coordinates of the ruins that the mission is even about! Do Frontier really expect us to find anything of significance when we have to manually scan, with our eyeballs, every possible landable body in the game? With a planet of 1500KM radius, it would take me 6 1/2 hours to fly one rotation for a single heading...
 
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The icing on the cake, for me at least, is that Ram Tahs message suggested that there are other ruins that could be found; but there are no tools to actually help narrow down such search (planetary scanners that would even suggest something was there in the first place, persistent poi's that show up on the scanner, etc.). For crying out loud, the mission given by him doesn't even tell you the system or coordinates of the ruins that the mission is even about!

So either someone stumbles upon it, or we have to wait for a Fdev bread crumb after x amounts of CGs, well it gives us time to look at the alien hyperdictions and perhaps search for other potential alien crash sites as well as a few other mysteries as well
 
The illusion of progress. Don't get me wrong, I like the story side of Elite and I do my best to take part in it all and contribute, but I do feel that it would be very nice if we had ways to make progress on our own, to discover new things by effort and gameplay rather than always waiting for Frontier to tell us via game mechanics where to look next. A lot of players do make finds and discoveries by brute force Mk I Eyeball searching combined with a whole lot of luck, but I wish we had more ways to actually explore and discover things on our own too, without the breadcrumbs being laid down for us.

Had a look at the ruins back in November. Woo. Spooky. Gathered some obelisk data. Then forgot about them entirely.

Saw Rum Tum's or whatever-his-name-is CG, thought I may as well cash in on that obelisk data I still had. Delivered it and was only in the top 100% for a paltry CR1,000,000. Top 75% would have been CR11,000,000. So I went for another look out at the ruins today to gather some more data for Rum Tum. Then I got the bonus mission. CR100,000,000? How does that work? Did some research on the forums and checked the list of Ancient Relics combos. Got about four or five of them before I lost interest because it was tedious and unclear and not working properly. Only two of the combos actually registered with the mission panel as cash money. Went back to Felice Dock to deliver my obelisk data and try to get into the 75% bracket for the CG, and it completed on the way back from the ruins.

So being in Rum Tum's neighbourhood and wanting his lightweight module upgrades for my next trip out of the Bubble, I realized I needed another 18 Classified Scan Databases to unlock him. So then I went to two Convoy Beacons in an Outbreak system, scanned all the refugees, and collected barely any data and no CSDs at all. Checked the forums and it seems that since yesterday you can't find CSDs anywhere.

So now that's yet another Engineer I want to see assassination/bombing missions introduced for, and another day of dismal gameplay following FD's wretched trail of breadcrumbs. This is what happens when you let creepy unfunny programmers take over design instead of keeping them chained to their computers working out code in windowless cubicles where they belong.

Now I realize that I never really cared about the alien/archæology plot spoon-feed. I only became interested when there appeared to be money in it. But then there wasn't. So now I double don't care about it, and I think this thread needs to put a pillow over the face of the alien archæology puzzle and focus more on the 'and other mysteries'. Content in this game was supposed to be player-led, and now it has to be what with FD having obviously recruited the wrong people to deliver it. Why Drew Wagar hasn't got a job at FD. It's scandalous.

I'm leaving the Bubble to look for Miackce now (even though I know FD haven't put Miackce in the game) having calculated the system co-ordinates. Because that will be more fun than following breadcrumbs.
 
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So either someone stumbles upon it, or we have to wait for a Fdev bread crumb after x amounts of CGs, well it gives us time to look at the alien hyperdictions and perhaps search for other potential alien crash sites as well as a few other mysteries as well

The chances of someone stumbling upon something by accident are incredibly small given how many planets we can land on and their size thereof. Which is why I'm often tempted to complain about the lack of sensible search/exploration mechanics. I even knew the coordinates to the ruins and had a hard time finding it..Turns out it wont even pop into view if you're flying too high above the surface.
 
I like this expression, "the illusion of progress", that sums up my feelings exactly. Not player driven progress, but breadcrumbs laid out by Frontier. The ruins were never solvable until Frontier implemented a mission and a CG at Ram Tah's. The Aliens were never out there to find until Frontier turned a switch on to make them hyperdict us all over the Pleiades region. The beacon stations were never findable until Frontier gave us a CG and beacons to tell us exactly where to look.

And I understand that it probably has to be like this in Elite because the players really don't have the proper tools in game to make progress any other way. Our scanners don't tell us if there are man made signatures detected on the planet, so all of those people searching throughout the Rift for all of this time had practically no chance at all of finding surface bases on their own. Our scanners don't tell us if artificial structures are detected on the planet surface, so there is no way at all to tell if a planet might possibly have alien ruins on them by simply searching systems. The alien crash sites and barnacles didn't lead us to a region of space where we could discover that hyperdictions occur, Frontier just turned them on one day in a well trafficked area of space so we could start experiencing them. It's the lack of tools in game that could allow players to make natural and honest progression on things like these that, in the end, require Frontier to spoonfeed us little bits of progression, because we have no way to facilitate it on our own in game.

The illusion of progress. Don't get me wrong, I like the story side of Elite and I do my best to take part in it all and contribute, but I do feel that it would be very nice if we had ways to make progress on our own, to discover new things by effort and gameplay rather than always waiting for Frontier to tell us via game mechanics where to look next. A lot of players do make finds and discoveries by brute force Mk I Eyeball searching combined with a whole lot of luck, but I wish we had more ways to actually explore and discover things on our own too, without the breadcrumbs being laid down for us.

Cmdr, you said it much more eloquently than I...agree with you 100%.

Frawd
 
I too am disappointed.
There is a large, no massive lack of ingame tools, with far too much reliance on external web sites,web apps, and community created apps.
I appreciate the work the community have done greatly, though I do not appreciate frontiers blatant lack of implementation of the apps and tools that we so regularly rely upon outside of the game.
 
Some more alignments... tonight the pleiades and Barnard's loop were both on the horizon at the same time.

B34383A4752C13C1CAC61966A78213151DD6A830


32958A556A875FE1DD151BC8526DE77A95C2363F


B1D8F616E4F75EB8C8A657304E8484D86A8D0E8C
 
I must say I have been really disappointed with the way the ruins 'mystery' has panned out...

I spent weeks/months scanning, measuring and photographing the ruins, trying to understand what their purpose might be and where other ruins might be. I went on long trips looking for ruins where my analyses suggested they might be.

Then the mission comes along and it seemed to me that in fact there was nothing to 'solve' about the ruins...it just got turned into another grind-fest where an NPC would be doing the analyses and he would tell us about the guardians. After a day or two I refused to partake in it despite the millions to be made from doing so. After all, other commanders had already discovered most of what there was to know (and none of which gave us clues as to other ruins).

And then came the CG...where the same NPC was going to analyse the data and point us to other ruins.

I don't normally criticise FD since I really love playing this game and have had a ball over the past year or so. I have always envisaged finding alien ruins in remote systems and having something to solve, some piece of the puzzle to add to the general knowledge of other life in the universe, be they thargoids, guardians or some other race...but this has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Frawd :(

The icing on the cake, for me at least, is that Ram Tahs message suggested that there are other ruins that could be found; but there are no tools to actually help narrow down such search (planetary scanners that would even suggest something was there in the first place, persistent poi's that show up on the scanner, etc.). For crying out loud, the mission given by him doesn't even tell you the system or coordinates of the ruins that the mission is even about! Do Frontier really expect us to find anything of significance when we have to manually scan, with our eyeballs, every possible landable body in the game? With a planet of 1500KM radius, it would take me 6 1/2 hours to fly one rotation for a single heading...

My interest only got peaked when the Hyperdictions started. And because of that I've spent the last two weeks reading ALL the cannon threads. They were amazing to read, they stirred my curiosity even more and I was tempted to jump to the end and read the latest discoveries that had been figured out. Only to discover a tonne of hard work appears, presently to have been for naught. I hope that is not the case. Even as a bystander that's done nothing to move anything along, it's been an engaging read, long may that continue.

I sure hope that the CG isn't going to tell you what you've been trying to find out for months. That'd be a huge spoiler.
 
Here's a page that does a better explanation than I could.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/173931/why-does-red-light-travel-faster-than-blue-light

3rd answers analogy for example is what I was trying to get at. Although I found the Feynman one the best for getting a headache trying to wrap my head around.


I understand that. Hence why I said the star has to be of a higher frequency in order to allow the red reflection of light off of leaves and or organic materials possible.

The easiest way to understand it is this. All light can be reflected refracted absorbed or emitted. Only light that is being emitted is moving at the speed of light. Everything else has interacted with atoms/particles of some kind, so now they move slower.

Red light moves slower after it has been reflected or refracted. The only true source of red light traveling at the speed of light has to be emitted from its source as red light. Otherwise it is slower moving. Since almost all sources of natural light in the entirety of our Universe comes from the fusion of materials in a star, then almost all stars output at least some white light. White light is comprised of every wavelength of the color spectrum. It contains light both above infrared and below ultraviolet. This is basic color theory and spectrum analysis we had this in physics class in middle school.

I know exactly what I had said I understand exactly how it works. You just provided me a paper to a link explaining how light interacts with atoms in an object. In order for light to interact with an atom the atom will either absorb all the light or reflect/refract some of the light. Which slows it down and changes the color that our eyes perceive.

Color is not real its the result of how eyes intemperate light waves bouncing off of surfaces. It is the perception of the human mind and a construct we adapted to make us better hunters. I highly doubt anything not of this planet will see anything in the same color or way that human eyes do. They for example may have evolved around a F class star or an A class star. So their eyes are tuned to a different spectrum of visible light. That is assuming that they even have eyes in the traditional sense.

We know the guardians do because the obelisks specifically say the color red. So they have similar eye structure to ours. Which means the will need to be located around an F or A class star at best.
 
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Here's a page that does a better explanation than I could.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/173931/why-does-red-light-travel-faster-than-blue-light

3rd answers analogy for example is what I was trying to get at. Although I found the Feynman one the best for getting a headache trying to wrap my head around.

I understand that. Hence why I said the star has to be of a higher frequency in order to allow the red reflection of light off of leaves and or organic materials possible.

Red light moves slower after it has been reflected or refracted. The only true source of red light traveling at the speed of light has to be emitted from its source as red light. Otherwise it is slower moving. Since almost all sources of natural light in the entirety of our Universe comes from the fusion of materials in a star, then almost all stars output at least some white light. White light is comprised of every wavelengthy of the color spectrum. It contains light both above infrared and below ultraviolet. This is basic color theory and spectrum analysis we had this in physics class in middle school.

The easiest way to understand it is this. All light can be reflected refracted absorbed or emitted. Only light that is being emitted is moving at the speed of light. Everything else has interacted with atoms/particles of some kind, so now they move slower.

I know exactly what I had said I understand exactly how it works. You just provided me a paper to a link explaining how light interacts with atoms in an object. In order for light to interact with an atom the atom will either absorb all the light or reflect/refract some of the light. Which slows it down and changes the color that our eyes perceive.

Color is not real its the result of how eyes intemperate light waves bouncing off of surfaces. It is the perception of the human mind and a construct we adapted to make us better hunters. I highly doubt anything not of this planet will see anything in the same color or way that human eyes do. They for example may have evolved around a F class star or an A class star. So their eyes are tuned to a different spectrum of visible light. That is assuming that they even have eyes in the traditional sense.

We know the guardians do because the obelisks specifically say the color red. So they have similar eye structure to ours. Which means the will need to be located around an F or A class star at best.

Oh you too, get a room (separate thread) you've been at this for days... :D:p;):p:D
 
so perhaps a ground based survey of landable planets in the barnard loop nebula and surrounding sectors is in order to find the next ruins ?
 
I just dont want someone to make this mistake in the future. I am sure this will not be the only time star light will come into play in ED.


thrashing out a community brainstorming session is what this thread is all about - as you were folks better to overthink than underthink something

- - - Updated - - -

two options
1. If we are close to a solution then it will be not clear hint.
2. If we do what we don't must to do then it will be a very clear hint

1. May be another puzzle or similair hunt ( but frontier arent back at work for afew hours yet)
2. Barnards loop is looking like a strong hint candidate
 
if you want to illustrate the diff between red light and blue light.............wear an assless police uniform wilst trying to arrest a lady of the night in Amsterdam

sol permit and atmos landing required
 
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I really hope the in game puzzles get better though. Even though we have done all of this work it just comes down to the CG. I dont really like that. The last 2 days of CG has invalidated the last 4 months of work.

I can safely say that the reason why it has not been solved before this CG is not in the slightest way the fault of the community. We have people who work for SETI and nasa who play this game and we were not able to do it.

Just add some more interaction mechanics in the game. If we are not going to get space legs any time soon, then we need an analog for the time being. A manipulator arm on our SRVs at the very least.
I am tired of the scoop and shoot method of science we have to currently work with on planet. One day soon I imagine they will get this all sorted. I just feel a bit let down at this point.

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if you want to illustrate the diff between red light and blue light.............wear an assless police uniform wilst trying to arrest a lady of the night in Amsterdam

sol permit and atmos landing required

I dont know if they make the asssless chaps in Police uniform flavor or not. We will have to investigate this.

If anyone knows speak up. This is for science.
 
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