PVP piracy - Destroyed three trader ships over 4t of cargo... help me understand

[babelfisch]

The only people i was blaming were fearmongers.

Im not blaming the newbwinders for anything, they are noobs of course they cant figure out the poor chat menu we have.
It just sucks for them that the punishment for non-compliance was death. Elite has a steep learning curve/ED is a dangerous place ..etc

Non english speakers were given a free pass mind you.

What I don't understand is, who are the fearmongers? Those who tell you to not play in open if you don't want to be blown up for np reason? Because that's like 90% of the forum community, coming from all sorts od different playstyles. Note: Don't want to get into a PvP/PvE/open/solo debate, there is no need for it and this is not the right place. Just want to understand who is at fault

 

[drzdeano]

What I don't understand is, who are the fearmongers? Those who tell you to not play in open if you don't want to be blown up for np reason? Because that's like 90% of the forum community, coming from all sorts od different playstyles. Note: Don't want to get into a PvP/PvE/open/solo debate, there is no need for it and this is not the right place. Just want to understand who is at fault

Yes , i am referring to the cancerous growth on these forums that preaches night and day about the hordes of griefers waiting for you behind every sun and station.

It is just not true. And they know they are exaggerating, but they do it for dramatic effect, probably to make themselves feel more useful, as if they were actually helping people.

Oh look a new player "STAY AWAY FROM OPEN OMG DONT EVEN ATTEMPT TO LOGIN YOU WILL BE GANKED"

may as well just tell them to uninstall.

 

[babelfisch]

Yes , i am referring to the cancerous growth on these forums that preaches night and day about the hordes of griefers waiting for you behind every sun and station.

It is just not true. And they know they are exaggerating, but they do it for dramatic effect, probably to make themselves feel more useful, as if they were actually helping people.

Oh look a new player "STAY AWAY FROM OPEN OMG DONT EVEN ATTEMPT TO LOGIN YOU WILL BE GANKED"

may as well just tell them to uninstall.

To me it looks like the dangers in open are just as imaginary as your fears of people talking about it

 

[drzdeano]

To me it looks like the dangers in open are just as imaginary as your fears of people talking about it

do i really have to search for qoutes? you had just admitted yourself that "90% of forum users talk like that?"

meh good job your bait got me , well played sir clap clap .

you know exactly what im talking about

 

[babelfisch]

do i really have to search for qoutes? you had just admitted yourself that "90% of forum users talk like that?"

meh good job your bait got me , well played sir clap clap .

you know exactly what im talking about

I just don't see it so dramatic

Anyway, I think both views are true. Open isn't as bad as some people make it, but you don't need to wonder why you got blown up randomly. Maybe it would be best to prevent these events rather than tell people they shouldn't talk about it - with a proper crime and consequences system.

 

[Echo Wake]

I am usually running a trade ship running missions, passengers, our just standard cargo trading. While I have not had the chance to encounter a player pirate I still get pulled out by NPCs. NPCs are not usually much of challenge. I don't know why people doing trade and running into pirates are having so much trouble. I am currently flying a Beluga and don't seem to have problems most of the time.

I get that people run no weapons on transport ship and sometimes no shields. Those in my opinion are the worst mistakes. I usually run 4-5 mine launchers on my Beluga that have been engineered to leave a nasty surprise. Like reverberating cascade to directly damage my opponents shield generator, ion disruption to reboot the drives leaving them tumbling through space, and even shift lock canisters to reboot their FSD drives.

I mean you can't follow me if your thrusters are offline, you can't jump right away tho find me again with your FSD being rebooted. And I'm sure most people would not pirate a ship if their shield generator was recently rendered useless.

About 90% of the time I am running in open, unless I am helping a new player in a private group.

 

[Kaltern]

If one person blows up players on the premise of 'piracy', then I'm afraid everyone here who promotes piracy is going to be viewed in exactly the same way, whether you like it or not.

I read posts here that people play specifically to kill players, and they have the audacity to post it in a piracy thread!

Piracy cannot and will not work in a universe with literally no risk for the pirate, regardless if they're 'honourable' or not. Personally, I would be happy to be a victim, as long as game mechanics stop that pirate from POSSIBLY killing me in any way. Piracy should be about outwitting your hapless victim, in order to steal some of their cargo. Not blow them away because their victim didn't play the game the way they wanted it to.

And this is exactly why I won't play in open. Because an undisclosed number of you cannot be trusted. One bad apple, etc.

 

[Echo Wake]

I have the same concerns, but also if I know I am going into CG that is likely to have pirates... I'll get my self a fighter escort.

And yes there is definitely a difference between out right player killing and piracy.

I will not willingly drop cargo for a pirate even if they ask me to drop cargo. What I expect a proper pirate to do is find a way to disable my ship and take the cargo by force, not kill me for attempting to fight or run.

 

[Sylow]

Off topic:
After reading through the last 14 pages, where did that idea came from that the forum doesn't react well to PvP topics?

.
That part is easily explained: the forum indeed does react badly to griefplay. Since griefers don't consider themselves to be griefers but call themselves PvPers, they concluded that PvP would not be welcome. A classical case of self-delusion to avoid having to realize the difference and where on the fence they stand.
.

 

[Infiltrator_2K]

I think fear, panic, distrust and uncertainty overides all rationality.

 

[DragonIV]

I'm a long time trader (among other things...I actually CAN fight, just not so well in my bare-bones Cutter that lacks any offensive capability).

With that out of the way, what OP described is not so different from any other AI interdiction where they demand you to drop cargo---and inevitably open fire regardless. Is it possible they mistook you for an AI? Against an AI, even a strong one, I can easily get away--even without shields (tho' without shields you'll take damage, especially from those kind of interdictors). The submit and jump routine is practically muscle memory for many successful traders.

So you come along, and if they have never been interdicted by a human before, they may have just reverted to form. In truth, I've played the game Online since December 2014 and been interdicted by a CMDR all of three times. That's 3 out of positively thousands of AI interdictions.

Until the pirate AI is upgraded to actually do real piracy, and the AI programmed to kill at a moments notice is removed (at least for CMDRs with no bounty), we traders will not be "trained" properly to deal with your gentle pirate approach. It's the sorry truth. As a trader, I would actually enjoy *real* piracy on my routes, rather than all the homicidal AI that I see today.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I think fear, panic, distrust and uncertainty overides all rationality.

that's why you shoot to disable not to kill

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I have the same concerns, but also if I know I am going into CG that is likely to have pirates... I'll get my self a fighter escort.

And yes there is definitely a difference between out right player killing and piracy.

I will not willingly drop cargo for a pirate even if they ask me to drop cargo. What I expect a proper pirate to do is find a way to disable my ship and take the cargo by force, not kill me for attempting to fight or run.

Did i ever caught you? I think i remember your name from somewhere...

 

[Quineloe]

I've interdicted traders at CGs before and demanded they tell me a joke...it didn't even need to be a good one an two thirds ran or combat logged. Figure that one out.

Pretty easy - bad experiences in the past.

What I can't figure out is why that is still a mystery to you guys.

 

[Echo Wake]

that's why you shoot to disable not to kill

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Did i ever caught you? I think i remember your name from somewhere...

It's possible. I play exclusively on Xbox One. We could have past by each other at a CG or a random station. I have only been interdicted a handful of times by players. Most recently when I was flying a T-9 when everyone was looking for a T-9 that one day months ago in that one obscure system.

 

[babelfisch]

Did i ever caught you? I think i remember your name from somewhere...

That wasn't CMDR Echo Wake but CMDR High Wake

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

It's possible. I play exclusively on Xbox One. We could have past by each other at a CG or a random station. I have only been interdicted a handful of times by players. Most recently when I was flying a T-9 when everyone was looking for a T-9 that one day months ago in that one obscure system.

Nah i never played on the box a shame tough.. most people would cry me a river for it

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Pretty easy - bad experiences in the past.

What I can't figure out is why that is still a mystery to you guys.

That's why disable is the best coice... then you send a message like "the battle is finished, not prepare to hand over some cargo..." this actually cools most people down since theres 2 key points there BATTLE FINISHED and SOME CARGO... so you're not getting destroyed and not all your cargo is lost


Works 99% of the time...

The other 1% you have to do some warning shots or hit the cargo hatch for some extra content...

 

[Bazorlag]

Pretty easy - bad experiences in the past.

What I can't figure out is why that is still a mystery to you guys.

Yup. DayZ shows you how people actually love to humiliate and abuse other people whenever they can. Trying to make someone sing or tell jokes is kind of like ED version of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG-Hc_YPkB8

 

[lenna]

Until the pirate AI is upgraded to actually do real piracy, and the AI programmed to kill at a moments notice is removed (at least for CMDRs with no bounty), we traders will not be "trained" properly to deal with your gentle pirate approach. It's the sorry truth. As a trader, I would actually enjoy *real* piracy on my routes, rather than all the homicidal AI that I see today.

I am not a regular trader and personally I rarely if ever submit to piracy demands but on at least one occasion I have dropped some cargo for AI pirates and they have left me alone. It is quite rare that I have encountered the AI pirates interdicting me recently when I have no cargo on board, given this I do believe the piracy AI has been improved somewhat.

The problem in general with piracy demands is knowing the threshold for how much cargo and what type would placate them. Real pirates would have cargo scanners and know what you are carrying as a result and make demands based on that knowledge (even if it is ALL cargo), anyone else (NPC or PC - who make demands without such knowledge) is basically just an idiot IMO.

 

[Sylow]

Real pirates would have cargo scanners and know what you are carrying as a result and make demands based on that knowledge (even if it is ALL cargo), anyone else (NPC or PC - who make demands without such knowledge) is basically just an idiot IMO.

.
There are player "pirates" around who do not have a cargo hold on their ships. If the absence of a cargo scanner makes them an idiot, what does the absence of a cargo hold make them?
.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

.
There are player "pirates" around who do not have a cargo hold on their ships. If the absence of a cargo scanner makes them an idiot, what does the absence of a cargo hold make them?
.

I don't use Cargo Scanner because is very easy to know that i player is a cargo ship... and because i pirate at CGs which is obvious who is who there

Plus if they say they have no cargo i just make a feww shots on their cargo hatch. or hit it with a hatchbreaker


So the only idiot is the one that think that i need a weapon to tell me the obvious...