The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Skizomeuh]

Development so open:
- that we discovered an engine switch once done,
- that we learned many months later through a news site original Star Marine was trashed because of scale error (still don't get how sounds, models, code had to be trashed and not fixed) when it was meant to be released in weeks, not months,
- that we don't know what happened to Illfonic,
- that we don't know how money was spent and how many they still have,
- that barely nothing have been shown of SQ42 that was planned to release years ago,
- that every concern expressed is at best katamaried in their forums, at worst banned,
-...

 

[Stigbob]

When it's Final.

So since it's so very open when is it scheduled to be final ?.

Because it wasn't Final.

Then why did Chris Roberts not say that ?.

You seem to believe that "open communication" means "meets all deadlines". This isn't the case with any other company I'm aware of.

Nope I think missing deadlines sometimes is normal, I think not telling people in advance you're going to miss a deadline is unprofessional and getting angry when people hold you to deadlines is very unprofessional indeed.

Missing every deadline, now that's a different matter that's either deliberate lying or people who haven't got the first clue what they are doing, or both.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Its simple guys, to some being consistently lied to on a weekly basis for years is 'open development'. Others want correct information that is actually relevevant.

 

[Tippis]

SC certainly has open development. They discuss their plans, show features in development, and allow players to access the game in an alpha state.

They're “open” in the same sense that Microsoft, Adobe, and Apple are open. I.e. not very.

The problem is that you believe the word "open" means "full, unfiltered, complete access".

No. The problem is that CIG is trying to maintain a narrative of being the most openest developmentest ever(est), including a promise to keep the backers in the loop to the same extent they would a regular publisher, and then not really doing any of that but rather maintaining the same level of closed-ness you see from the likes of the companies above, at best… In practice, it's often worse than what those guys would offer since CIG so adamantly refuses to talk about its hiccups and failures until long after the fact.

Don't get bitter with CIG because their level of communication doesn't match your personal demands.

How about being bitter with CIG because their level of communication doesn't match their promises?

 

[Toumal]

Had to look that one up. Useful concept.

It limits what you can do. But if you stick to it, the resulting system can be made extremely resilient and scaled up via loadbalancing without having to worry about breaking stuff. It's either this or transactions, which have their own benefits and drawbacks. Typically for a game like SC transactions are only used for stuff like your game credit balance, purchasing equipment, mission status and so forth, not for stuff that needs to be done quickly like position updates, weapon fire, etc.

 

[tooterfish]

SC certainly has open development. They discuss their plans, show features in development, and allow players to access the game in an alpha state.

The problem is that you believe the word "open" means "full, unfiltered, complete access". This is not the case.

The restaurant down the street is "open". That doesn't mean I get to wander around the kitchen anytime I like.
As a manager, I had an "open door" policy. That didn't mean that any employee could get the answer to every question they asked, nor could they poke through my file cabinet.

Don't get bitter with CIG because their level of communication doesn't match your personal demands.

Weeks not months.

 

[thorn-]

They're “open” in the same sense that Microsoft, Adobe, and Apple are open. I.e. not very.

You're equating CIG's communication to Apple? Seriously? Apple is quite possibly THE most secretive tech company on the planet, when it comes to future plans and current development. Your argument just completely failed in spectacular fashion.

 

[Tippis]

You're equating CIG's communication to Apple?

No. I'm saying Apple is more forthcoming with accurate information about what's happening at the moment and about their future plans. They also don't make up wholly fictitious release dates that they then don't comment on until well after that date, and then only to state that they've now begun working on the stuff that was meant to be out on that date.

Apple is secretive about products that have not yet been unveiled, but that's not what we're talking about here, now is it? We're talking about the development of a known product, where people have paid to be part of the development and testing, and to receive continuous information about that product.

Your argument just completely failed in spectacular fashion.

How so? Just sign up for a dev account and you're in. The process should be familiar to you…

 

[LeSabre]

Ah, "We promise to treat our backers as we would a publisher".

Which is funny since a publisher would have at least an accurate weekly update on all facets of the development for the week in question, would be able to question and expect accurate assesments of each individual feature or item, would have access to a complete and critical timetable of development plans for the next six to ten months, have complete financial access of both incoming and outgoing expenses, and would be able to effectively veto any and all idea's/plans/development not in the publishers or development studios best interests which would include such things as unplanned additions to game mechanics, unneeded or frivolous expenses and incorrect marketting/promotional material.

If a publisher was involved with CIG, things would not have spiralled out of control in the manner that we are seeing, the game would not be endless self promotion without factual evidence to support it, and CR would have been kept grounded in reality and told in no uncertain terms to poop (get on with it) or get off the pot. CIG should be a lot further along development wise by now, all core systems should have been completed along with the basic framework to operate them, but there is no evidence a single core system has been completed.

 

[Tippis]

Ah, "We promise to treat our backers as we would a publisher".

[…]

If a publisher was involved with CIG, things would not have spiralled out of control in the manner that we are seeing, the game would not be endless self promotion without factual evidence to support it, and CR would have been kept grounded in reality and told in no uncertain terms to poop (get on with it) or get off the pot.

Granted, the last time CR dealt with a publisher, his treatment of them made them throw him out of his own company, so there's always the chance that he's genuinely doing this — it just means something rather different to him than it would to anyone with a sensible perspective on game development.

…and then there's the way his Hollywood career ended, which further suggests that it's a genuine pattern rather than a one-time occurrence.

 

[frostypaw]

You're equating CIG's communication to Apple?

Let's try the Apple equivalent: they hold a press conference and demo the iPhone 13 - fully integrated into a simple wristband complete with holographic screen, bone transmitted audio so no headphones or microphone required and complete integration into your home devices and vehicle, and even 100% secure banking services.

Then they release the iPhone 6.5. Or is the content in the Homestead demo coming this year? Because from what I understood there are no habitable earth likes like that in the Stanton system full stop and the next system isn't until 4.0 earliest.

This is what we mean by honest and open development - showing the development of the game, not some fantasy about how you'd like it to develop at some point in the future claiming it's just around the corner.

NMS are directly comparable there - SM on stage saying "this is just the game, i'm going to land on this random planet and let's see what we find" onto to then play stuff specifically programmed for that show is exactly like CIG's behaviour with the homestead demo.

Nobody is claiming it's comparable in all ways, so dismissing all arguments on that basis is a trivial fallacy.

 

[LeSabre]

Granted, the last time CR dealt with a publisher, his treatment of them made them throw him out of his own company, so there's always the chance that he's genuinely doing this — it just means something rather different to him than it would to anyone with a sensible perspective on game development.

…and then there's the way his Hollywood career ended, which further suggests that it's a genuine pattern rather than a one-time occurrence.

That's the thing, CR has a history of bucking authority and just doing his own thing which can work out if the results exceed expectation, 'Maverick' as a nickname says a lot about how he does things. The trouble is, history has shown that his results are subpar when he overrides sensible authority and either doesn't learn his lesson or doesn't care enough about the consequences (Digital Anvil, bad press, being sued by Costner). It's definitely a pattern with him, a character defect if anything.

Putting him in a postion where there is no authority above him to reign his whimsical nature in is a bit like asking a banned drunk driver on his first day of work to look after an exotic car dealersip for a month while everyone else goes on holiday, then telling him the lockcode to the strongbox where all the car keys are kept.

 

[tooterfish]

Sure, CIG tell us lots of things. So what? Openness implies more than that, it implies honesty.

Weeks not months, guys. CIG are not honest about their progress, they're not honest about the state of their project, they're not honest about their expenditure (backers will never know!). They're not open.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Ok I get it, everything is true: open development (though it doesn't mean telling the truth) and we're treated like publishers (no less than how he treated them in the past)

 

[Toumal]

if they do not change their way of development and making demos, it will be difficult.

Completely agree.

 

[VidarSnipes]

I wonder how did the CIG's refocus on VR work out: http://www.roadtovr.com/star-citizen-to-refocus-on-vr-support-in-early-2016/

 

[Asp Explorer]

I wonder how did the CIG's refocus on VR work out: http://www.roadtovr.com/star-citizen-to-refocus-on-vr-support-in-early-2016/

Like most things that CIG announce - it was all a load of absolute lulzbucketry.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I wonder how did the CIG's refocus on VR work out: http://www.roadtovr.com/star-citizen-to-refocus-on-vr-support-in-early-2016/

Quite well, actually. Last I heared they almost have the foundation comepletely done for the guys in Germany to start making the tools they need to begin adding initial pre-alpha support for the highest fidelity VR experience ever.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So Derek in this tweets implies that considerable workforce of CIG has been letting go. Anyone knows more about this?

 

[Asp Explorer]

So Derek in this tweets implies that considerable workforce of CIG has been letting go. Anyone knows more about this?

I've not seen anything - but if true, I hope a speedy return to gainful employment for everyone concerned.