General / Off-Topic Building a wall

It is only happening in your head. Nothing bad is happening for everyone else. This notion that something 'bad' is going on is just silly.

Wish I could post more. Can only check these forums in my free time from the public terminal. Sorry for not posting much guys. Got a moment of downtime.

You guys ever wonder if this is Sean Spencer in his free time?

Once I had an American friend tell me that the news I saw on Television was not the news she saw. Turns out that not all the same media outlets cross their country and a lot of them are banned from certain sections. America is pretty segregated. If Arch lives in an area were conservative media only exists there is a good chance he isn't getting all the protests, anger, and hatred for Trump. On conservative channels I have been told his SuperPak is asking for money again, even, to "defeat the enemy". I think that was posted in this thread or the other.

I'll check in again asap. Can't wait for my weekend so I can comment properly.
 
1.
Actually the one who Won Majority Vote was Clinton.
Trump only Won because the System does not go by Majority but by the Won States.
So if Candidate A Wins 26 States with 51% and the other Candidate Wins 24 States with 99% then Candidate A will be President despite Candidate B having the Votes of about 70% or more of the Population.

The Electoral College has been in place since the founding of the US. It is an important instrument to protect the smaller(in population) states from being completely irrelevant in the elections. And its not like the big states doesn't have a huge impact anyway. F.ex, South Dakota has 3 electoral votes, while California has 55. There really isn't anything to complain about.

What I find more of an issue is immigration and how easy these new citizen get to vote. IMO a person should have a 4 generation family lineage in a country before being allowed to vote. This to prevent the country suddenly taking a sharp turn politically because of the influx of mass immigration. It just makes more sense that a person whose family has built up the country, with blood sweat and tears, get to decide the direction the country takes, not some fresh immigrant with absolutely no historical connection to the country.
 
Wish I could post more. Can only check these forums in my free time from the public terminal. Sorry for not posting much guys. Got a moment of downtime.

You guys ever wonder if this is Sean Spencer in his free time?

Once I had an American friend tell me that the news I saw on Television was not the news she saw. Turns out that not all the same media outlets cross their country and a lot of them are banned from certain sections. America is pretty segregated. If Arch lives in an area were conservative media only exists there is a good chance he isn't getting all the protests, anger, and hatred for Trump. On conservative channels I have been told his SuperPak is asking for money again, even, to "defeat the enemy". I think that was posted in this thread or the other.

I'll check in again asap. Can't wait for my weekend so I can comment properly.

It is true, the echo chamber is real. I look to my democrat friends and I see them running circles around in some bleeding-heart liberal themed Facebook group. I look to my republican friends and I see them running circles around in some guns, god and country Facebook group. None of them consume news media from traditional outlets and every source they have is completely partisan. Both are toxic, both are wrong and both hate each other for the things each of them are wrong about.

I try to come at things from a trinity of perspectives:
- Cosmic: We are all little insignificant beings on a tiny marble in a hum-drum part of a typical looking galaxy.
- Humanist: We all come from dirt and are equal. The cooperation and support of humanity is integral to the progress of civilization.
- Scientific: A society without facts and progression of knowledge will not continue to be a society for long. Conclusions must be empirically defensible and with results that are repeatable in practice.

However, it can be difficult to keep these. Anger and fear can infect my mind but I do my best to come back to senses. Now, this isn't to say I'm right and others are wrong but I hope it helps people who disagree with me see that I'm trying to come from a position that I feel is good and just.

This is why I try not to label all conservatives as bad or liberals as good...because it isn't true. I know republicans who really think their choices will lead to a great and prosperous country for all. I'll tell you, these friends are quite embarrassed, right now, wishing their party hadn't been hijacked. I know liberals who believe that people who don't share their worldview are unworthy of equal treatment. Their embarrassment will come, too.

In the USA we've been trained not to think of public policy cooperatively across political leanings. There are enough wedges to build a car that keeps good and separated from making any compromises. In the last few years, those wedges have become everything anyone talks about anymore. Therefore, echo chambers form because hearing the opposing position on a wedge is sure to trigger everyone.

As for the wall, my objective opinion is that it does not solve the problem of illegal immigration. Most illegal immigration comes in on the back of visas. If you want a draconian measure to stop illegal immigration, you'll make a much larger dent if you restrict the visa program. Of course, that is hugely unpopular but at least it would address the problem Trump and the GOP claim is running rampant. Second, immigration being a "problem" is questionable in itself. In a country where all of its prosperity and growth is a direct result of immigration it seems strange that it would be a problem. Perhaps the issue is that it is too difficult to immigrate to the USA. If the legal methods for immigration were more efficient, then all the people seeking opportunity and the American dream can come share it while criminals can be dealt with more forcefully at the border.

Anyway...I've rambled enough

- - - Updated - - -

The Electoral College has been in place since the founding of the US. It is an important instrument to protect the smaller(in population) states from being completely irrelevant in the elections. And its not like the big states doesn't have a huge impact anyway. F.ex, South Dakota has 3 electoral votes, while California has 55. There really isn't anything to complain about.

What I find more of an issue is immigration and how easy these new citizen get to vote. IMO a person should have a 4 generation family lineage in a country before being allowed to vote. This to prevent the country suddenly taking a sharp turn politically because of the influx of mass immigration. It just makes more sense that a person whose family has built up the country, with blood sweat and tears, get to decide the direction the country takes, not some fresh immigrant with absolutely no historical connection to the country.

Why should the effort of people who are not me decide whether I have the right to vote? That's like saying Spanish people whose ancestry enslaved my family should be paying me reparations.

The government of THE PEOPLE should represent THE PEOPLE who reside within it and pay its stinkin taxes. NO EXCEPTIONS

EDIT: and to add, when I look at the "landed gentry" of whites who have been here for generations I see some of the least informed and most apathetic people. Now, I know that is generalizing, but it is counter to the ridiculousness of the above. In fact, it is these people that I find to be most susceptible to foreign influencers. They never had to fight for the American dream...to do the hard work to create an opportunity for more hard work. They have forgotten over the generations, what it means to make something from nothing...the epitome of being American.

EDIT2: another thing, what you suggest literally amounts to taxation without representation. You cannot collect taxes from someone if you do not give them the right to vote.
 
Last edited:
3.
Left Wingers can NEVER be Fascists.
Fascism is Exclusively Right Wing.
Pls learn what these Political Directions even mean before you throw them around.
Autocratic 100% Equality System is Called Communists.
And Autocratic 100% Freedom System is Called Anarchists.

Fascism requires to be Right Wing. You cannot become one if your Left Wing even if you Try :p
If you are going to enter a discussion about Trump, then YOU need to learn what these terms mean in the context of US politics, and it is this:

They don't mean squat here.:D

Left is liberal/Democrat and Right is conservative/Republican. There really isn't much deeper meaning to it than that.
 
Are you clinically insane? Nativism is nasty enough, but this takes it to a whole new level of crazy.

I get where it comes from. It comes from a desire to maintain status quo. Which, in itself, is not a malicious desire.

However, it is very flawed. How does a democracy operate when a large portion of its population cannot participate? What happens when the population of those who can vote, votes to restrict the rights of those who can't? What would stop them from voting to make it 5 generations, then 6, 7, 8 and so forth.

I just did a quick search to get some numbers...and could only find a Gallup poll from 2001. Since we are talking generations here, I think we can still use it. In 2001 56% Americans identified as 3rd Generation or more (they didn't bother going to 4). That leaves 44% of Americans that are immigrants, 1st and 2nd. The most likely to be from 3 or more generations are black people. Likely due to the constant influx of people from Europe and Latin America.
 
Last edited:
Are you clinically insane? Nativism is nasty enough, but this takes it to a whole new level of crazy.

Why is it crazy? I wouldn't expect and demand to be allowed to vote in any country I moved to.

What I see here in Norway, local elections, is immigrants voting en masse purely for their own candiates. They coupe'd half the city council of the biggest party with their own candidates. They're gaining more and more influence. While the natives vote all over the place (as is normal). Newly arrived third world immigrants controlling 1/3 of the the capital city council.. I wonder how this will be in 30-50 years when they have their own national parties going..

Call me insane if you like, but I am terrified for the future.

edit: corrected. Mixed up some numbers. It's not half the city council(yet) but 1/3 :p
 
Last edited:
Why is it crazy? I wouldn't expect and demand to be allowed to vote in any country I moved to.

What I see here in Norway, local elections, is immigrants voting en masse purely for their own candiates. They coupe'd half the city council of the biggest party with their own candidates. They're gaining more and more influence. While the natives vote all over the place (as is normal). Newly arrived third world immigrants controlling 1/3 of the the capital city council.. I wonder how this will be in 30-50 years when they have their own national parties going..

Call me insane if you like, but I am terrified for the future.

edit: corrected. Mixed up some numbers. It's not half the city council(yet) but 1/3 :p

This puts things in perspective. Immigration, as much as it is touted as a huge issue in the USA, is insignificant compared to the general population. Our biggest immigrant group, Mexicans, happen to be much more alike, culturally. Really only separated by language and style of partying, latino immigrants integrate with American culture quickly and easily. In fact, if the GOP could ever get their act together on immigration, latinos represent a massive bloc of conservative voters that currently abstain or vote democrat on the immigration issue alone. It is actually unfortunate for conservatism as the natural counter to liberalism that it has to be sacked with an influential contingent of racists.

As for an entirely foreign culture coming in and replacing instead of integrating and evolving, I can't really imagine that happening as it is well beyond my experience. Though, I might say I'd find it concerning or even alarming.

In the end, the situation in Norway isn't really comparable to the politics of the wall with Mexico.

edit: I'd even expect a Latino president before we have a female president. Quite possibly for the GOP.
 
Last edited:
Why is it crazy? I wouldn't expect and demand to be allowed to vote in any country I moved to.

What I see here in Norway, local elections, is immigrants voting en masse purely for their own candiates. They coupe'd half the city council of the biggest party with their own candidates. They're gaining more and more influence. While the natives vote all over the place (as is normal). Newly arrived third world immigrants controlling 1/3 of the the capital city council.. I wonder how this will be in 30-50 years when they have their own national parties going..

Call me insane if you like, but I am terrified for the future.

edit: corrected. Mixed up some numbers. It's not half the city council(yet) but 1/3 :p

Tribalism at work to put it very simply, we haven't evolved past that so flock to our own. Poor integration policies could be blamed as well. From my point of view we don't respect people from third world countries, we feel sorry for them and they need to be blessed by our wealth and kindness so we can feel good about ourselves. Wasn't there a term for that, white man's burden?

I wouldn't know what it is like to be on the recieving end of that, so my privileged self would view such an attitude towards me as disrespectful and feel contempt.

We (norwegians) can be arrogant and nationalistic, remember the swedish minister Rosengren? "Norway is the last soviet state."
 
Last edited:
If you took the time to go through the system and become a citizen of that country, why not?

I think being able to live and work safely and fairly, taking part in society equally, is enough of reward. Having no ties to the country I really don't feel like I have the right to "dictate" where the native population want to steer their country, even if I become citizen and planning to stay there for the rest of my life. I don't see it as a reason to feel inferior or anything.
 
I get where it comes from. It comes from a desire to maintain status quo. Which, in itself, is not a malicious desire.

However, it is very flawed. How does a democracy operate when a large portion of its population cannot participate? What happens when the population of those who can vote, votes to restrict the rights of those who can't? What would stop them from voting to make it 5 generations, then 6, 7, 8 and so forth.

I just did a quick search to get some numbers...and could only find a Gallup poll from 2001. Since we are talking generations here, I think we can still use it. In 2001 56% Americans identified as 3rd Generation or more (they didn't bother going to 4). That leaves 44% of Americans that are immigrants, 1st and 2nd. The most likely to be from 3 or more generations are black people. Likely due to the constant influx of people from Europe and Latin America.

As far as I can work out, my heritage goes back to the Iron Age in Finland, and most likely to the original settlers. Regardless I would find such a suggestion absolutely despicable and frankly insane. Some of the nicest Finns I've met are the offspring of refugees from Somalia, who came here as refugees when the Somalian civil war started in the eighties. Why the heck should I have more say in politics than they, or their parents who have applied and gained citizenship?

- - - Updated - - -

Call me insane if you like, but I am terrified for the future.

edit: corrected. Mixed up some numbers. It's not half the city council(yet) but 1/3 :p
You are embarrassing us Nordics, you really are. Is this common over there? Is it why the country seems to be panicking over ~40 wolves in the whole country (even worse than my own idiot countryfolk)? Easily spooked by irrational threats.
 
Regardless I would find such a suggestion absolutely despicable and frankly insane. Some of the nicest Finns I've met are the offspring of refugees from Somalia, who came here as refugees when the Somalian civil war started in the eighties. Why the heck should I have more say in politics than they, or their parents who have applied and gained citizenship?

My "idea" was more a reaction to the mass immigration we see today. I never had any issue with immigration before. It's the mass immigration that has woken up my protective instincts.

So, tell me, what if they want Sharia Law implemented in Finland? Would you be ok with that? And don't tell me it's never gonna happen. They already have Sharia Courts in Britain. And a major in London who wants to ban women from dressing "naughty". Now THAT'S insane. What next, obligatory Hijab for every woman, to not offend the profet? It will happen when they become enough in numbers, mark my words :p
 
Last edited:
~40 wolves in the whole country (even worse than my own country)?

We have 70. The plan by authorities was to hunt and kill 40-50 of them this winter, but thank god that was stopped(for good I hope). So HEY, at least something we agree on :)
 
Last edited:
1. That is how every election in the US goes. One wins popularity and the other wins the electorials. Nothing new here.

2. Oh. Then I am on his side.

3. What is that evil things that lefties are doing being called then? That is what I mean: The evil of lefties.
If fascism is good, then I do not understand why you call fascism something bad then. Because righties are good and loving and a mother who hugs her child: Rightwing in a nutshell. Love and understanding, opposite of running around in black and red on the streets causing havoc like lefties always do.

Evil of the Left Wing is called Left Wing Radical.
Evil of the Right Wing is called Right Wing Radical.

Fascists are usually Right Wing Radicals. But Fascism does not actually refer to being Evil.
Fascists could just as well be an benevolent Ruler and People who Love him. Fascism is an Political Ideology

An good example for an Left Wing Radical Ideology which is considered Evil is Communism.
So if you wanna call Adept something to overstate his position beyond any rational tought you would need to call him a Commie :p


Adept is Fairly Center Left Wing tough. Hes neither Radical nor Communist.
Maybe Socialist as he is clearly in Favor of the Democratic System. I am not sure yet myself :p


If you are going to enter a discussion about Trump, then YOU need to learn what these terms mean in the context of US politics, and it is this:

They don't mean squat here.:D

Left is liberal/Democrat and Right is conservative/Republican. There really isn't much deeper meaning to it than that.

In Short most Americans have no idea what these Words mean and just throw them around randomly in Politics right ?
sigh....


Are you clinically insane? Nativism is nasty enough, but this takes it to a whole new level of crazy.

Hey see it like that.
WW2 Germany demanded 6 Generations.
He at least only demands 4 lol
 
Last edited:
Meanwhile.
Trump Continues to Ignore the Constitution and has Fired the General Attorney which questioned his Muslime Ban being Legal...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38805944

Welcome to Turkey Number 2
Thus the Purges of the Law and Justice System have Begun.

Lets see how long it takes before the Police Starts Arresting Citizens voicing Critics on Erdogan... ah wait wrong country. I mean Donald Trump for Insulting the President.
 
So, tell me, what if they want Sharia Law implemented in Finland? Would you be ok with that? And don't tell me it's never gonna happen. They already have Sharia Courts in Britain. And a major in London who wants to ban women from dressing "naughty". Now THAT'S insane. What next, obligatory Hijab for every woman, to not offend the profet? It will happen when they become enough in numbers, mark my words :p

He has a point. Only this morning the jingle for the news has been changed to "Alahhh al-aahhaa Allah, this is BBC radio calling you to prayer". I have never forgotten going into my bakery and being told by Sue, "Sorry dearie, I'm not allowed to serve a scone until after dark as it's Ramadan."

You can see how much Muslims have infiltrated the West by how much influence they have on our governments. Invading Iraq, for example, was a move vehemently opposed by virtually every Muslim out there, so we never did it.

Before anyone accuses me of making all this up, these are alternative facts. And I've not noticed any victimization of Muslims in the West, except for the occasional travel ban, concentration camp at Guantanomo, torture, extradition, clothing ban, language ban, and oppressive surveillance. But still, this only serves to prove that we're being too nice to them!
 
He has a point. Only this morning the jingle for the news has been changed to "Alahhh al-aahhaa Allah, this is BBC radio calling you to prayer". I have never forgotten going into my bakery and being told by Sue, "Sorry dearie, I'm not allowed to serve a scone until after dark as it's Ramadan."

You can see how much Muslims have infiltrated the West by how much influence they have on our governments. Invading Iraq, for example, was a move vehemently opposed by virtually every Muslim out there, so we never did it.

Before anyone accuses me of making all this up, these are alternative facts. And I've not noticed any victimization of Muslims in the West, except for the occasional travel ban, concentration camp at Guantanomo, torture, extradition, clothing ban, language ban, and oppressive surveillance. But still, this only serves to prove that we're being too nice to them!

Dont do this pls....
Trump Supporters and Brexiteers have no idea what the difference between Facts and Alternate Facts is....
 
Back
Top Bottom