2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

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1800 posts later everyone is still yammering on about telepresence. Not a peep about the engineering multicrew function being suspiciously absent.

This is the kind of players this game has. Really sad hahahaha, not a single little hope of light.

For a lot of people is more important a stupid telepresence or teleportation than the game itself. If they don't like telepresence then they could meet in the same station and crew the ship there, but no.

This multicrew is really really disappointing.
 
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There's been a few actually, it's just that the white knights can only defend telepresence to they keep directing the discussion away from the cheep and lazy additions to the bit they think they can argue about.

Hardly, this thread reads like a cheap sci-fi fan fiction. Hundreds of posts describing the fictional science behind how a someone can jump aboard their friends ship from anywhere with no waiting. The "white knights" in this case are trying to say it doesn't matter how we get there. Because it's a game and we're just hoping one of the slowest moving modern titles finds a way to be more fun. It's the folks who insist on a scientific reason, and baring that, adding enough conditions to the feature that nobody will ever use it, that keep derailing this thread.
 
This is the kind of players this game has. Really sad hahahaha, not a single little hope of light.

For a lot of people is more important a stupid telepresence or teleportation than the game itself. If they don't like telepresence then they could meet in the same station and crew the ship there, but no.

This multicrew is really really disappointing.

Yes, very sad. That's how we end up with features that don't break immersion but are mostly useless in practice.
In the end we get a game tying itself into a pretzel by pretending to be a proper modern MMO game, while in fact
being a Solo game with minimal MP capabilties. I do think that FD is a bit schizophrenic in that regard.

While I'm a bit disapointed by what has been revealed for MC in terms of content, I will only really judge it after testing in beta.
I really hoped that FD would expand some of the base professions gameplay to allow meaningfull MC, but at the moment I'm not
so hopefull. With luck, we might be able to drive multiple SRV's from a ship. Maybe ? I hope...
 
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Hardly, this thread reads like a cheap sci-fi fan fiction. Hundreds of posts describing the fictional science behind how a someone can jump aboard their friends ship from anywhere with no waiting. The "white knights" in this case are trying to say it doesn't matter how we get there. Because it's a game and we're just hoping one of the slowest moving modern titles finds a way to be more fun. It's the folks who insist on a scientific reason, and baring that, adding enough conditions to the feature that nobody will ever use it, that keep derailing this thread.

Great scott! COMMON SENSE IS FOUND!

It's like a needle in a hay stack.

To quote another poster from another thread, "If this were a town in the old west you'd be getting sized up for a coffin right about now."
 
It would be better if players could have "employees". It will be based on similar system to hiring crew SLF pilots, however that kind of NPC crew can be provided to other players as part of multicrew. Thanks to "employees" system players could participate in instant multiucrew without telepresence - they just taking role of their employee.

In order to offer to someone your employee, employee need to be not used right now by you for SLF or something else - this mean your NPC need to be stored at any station. Then you can put him in multicrew market and someone else (someone random or your friends) can hire him. Thanks to that you are able participate in multicrew via that npc and you are able to take money rewards for that as employer . This is also easy explanation for instant crew hiring / instant multicrew - once you put your crew member for npc crew market, this is not specified where he is, he can be anywhere because npc can "travel" wherever he wants, thanks to that we can assume that he is close to your friend/other player to initiate multicrew.

This will solve telepresence problem and will also be logically right with more advanced concept of multicrew when you on our own are on another ship.

I think it is good compromise between telepresence and notelepresence at all. It will also allow for instant match making but it is still open for more complex, your commander based multicrew - something more permanent and connected with Space Legs. I think this also fits well with ability to hire SLF pilots - my proposal wiil expand this system and merge it with multicrew.

Poof!
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
It would be better if players could have "employees". It will be based on similar system to hiring crew SLF pilots, however that kind of NPC crew can be provided to other players as part of multicrew. Thanks to "employees" system players could participate in instant multiucrew without telepresence - they just taking role of their employee.

In order to offer to someone your employee, employee need to be not used right now by you for SLF or something else - this mean your NPC need to be stored at any station. Then you can put him in multicrew market and someone else (someone random or your friends) can hire him. Thanks to that you are able participate in multicrew via that npc and you are able to take money rewards for that as employer . This is also easy explanation for instant crew hiring / instant multicrew - once you put your crew member for npc crew market, this is not specified where he is, he can be anywhere because npc can "travel" wherever he wants, thanks to that we can assume that he is close to your friend/other player to initiate multicrew.

This will solve telepresence problem and will also be logically right with more advanced concept of multicrew when you on our own are on another ship.

I think it is good compromise between telepresence and notelepresence at all. It will also allow for instant match making but it is still open for more complex, your commander based multicrew - something more permanent and connected with Space Legs. I think this also fits well with ability to hire SLF pilots - my proposal wiil expand this system and merge it with multicrew.

Poof!

Sound rather familiar:

It would be better if players could have "employees". It will be based on similar system to hiring crew SLF pilots, however that kind of NPC crew can be provided to other players as part of multicrew. Thanks to "employees" system players could participate in instant multiucrew without telepresence - they just taking role of their employee.

In order to offer to someone your employee, employee need to be not used right now by you for SLF or something else - this mean your NPC need to be stored at any station. Then you can put him in multicrew market and someone else (someone random or your friends) can hire him. Thanks to that you are able participate in multicrew via that npc and you are able to take money rewards for that as employer ;). This is also easy explanation for instant crew hiring / instant multicrew - once you put your crew member for npc crew market, this is not specified where he is, he can be anywhere because npc can "travel" wherever he wants, thanks to that we can assume that he is close to your friend/other player to initiate multicrew.

This will solve telepresence problem and will also be logically right with more advanced concept of multicrew when you on our own are on another ship.

I think it is good compromise between telepresence and notelepresence at all. It will also allow for instant match making but it is still open for more complex, your commander based multicrew - something more permanent and connected with Space Legs. I think this also fits well with ability to hire SLF pilots - my proposal wiil expand this system and merge it with multicrew.
 
It would be better if players could have "employees". It will be based on similar system to hiring crew SLF pilots, however that kind of NPC crew can be provided to other players as part of multicrew. Thanks to "employees" system players could participate in instant multiucrew without telepresence - they just taking role of their employee.

In order to offer to someone your employee, employee need to be not used right now by you for SLF or something else - this mean your NPC need to be stored at any station. Then you can put him in multicrew market and someone else (someone random or your friends) can hire him. Thanks to that you are able participate in multicrew via that npc and you are able to take money rewards for that as employer . This is also easy explanation for instant crew hiring / instant multicrew - once you put your crew member for npc crew market, this is not specified where he is, he can be anywhere because npc can "travel" wherever he wants, thanks to that we can assume that he is close to your friend/other player to initiate multicrew.

This will solve telepresence problem and will also be logically right with more advanced concept of multicrew when you on our own are on another ship.

I think it is good compromise between telepresence and notelepresence at all. It will also allow for instant match making but it is still open for more complex, your commander based multicrew - something more permanent and connected with Space Legs. I think this also fits well with ability to hire SLF pilots - my proposal wiil expand this system and merge it with multicrew.

Poof!

We all know your opinion Xender, you've been repeating it for 50 pages.
 
Those were the days ;)

But really and truly ... there's not a lot for the Engineer and Tactical Officer to do on the ship .... tweak this ... adjust that ... and that's it .....

I suspect FD realized that and pulled back from proceeding further.

Flight in Elite is pretty basic, it has to all work off an X360 controller afterall.. I really would love it if with multicrew they expanded on how our ships operate and letting our crewmates really tweak and optimize it for whatever task we're doing. Sorta like Artemis, or that Star Trek VR game coming out. But that's not going to happen as long as the game is tied to controller input. Sure would be amazing though, the ultimate space ship LAN game.

Back to reality, I'd like to see more roles come out of multi-crew in future updates. I'm happy with what they're providing with 2.3 though, season 2 has taken long enough to drip out, time to put it to bed and get onto the next chapter. We can save the other roles for later.
 
*DonsTinfoil Hat*

Has anyone noticed how high res the textures are on lava worlds just lately? Much much improved. Scan one and the system map displays the gravity of the planet as well.

As far as I'm aware, the system map only shows the gravity of landable planets, not non-landable ones. Someone proving me wrong would be welcome, but I'm in Col 285 Sector AL-X D1-47, and there's a large lava world there with 2.04G.

My theory is that either 2.3 or 2.4 we're going to be able to land on these lava worlds. I did try just in case we just hadn't noticed we could land on them, but I couldn't. Still, the fact that the textures have improved massively and these are the only non-landable planets to display gravity in the system map, tells me we may be in for a treat.

What do you guys think?
 
Those were the days ;)

But really and truly ... there's not a lot for the Engineer and Tactical Officer to do on the ship .... tweak this ... adjust that ... and that's it .....

I suspect FD realized that and pulled back from proceeding further.

One of the big problems with any sort of multicrew in ED is that only the CMDR is likely to have a "fulltime job". It doesn't matter what you are doing, iut likely is going to involve piloting.

That being said, one could create different roles for use at different time. The turrets could be retuned into a mining laser suitable for blasting chunks off an asteroid so the Turret gunner would also be a miner

But the "What will I do the rest of the time" issue will always be there.


Having said that, there is a good bit a properly designed and implemented system could do.
The Countermeasures Specialist for example...what is his role? Simply put - defence. So his station should include aspects to ensure the crafts defence. Chaff, Flares, Decoy drones and ECM systems. An additional shield which he can reposition independently of the main shields so he can reinforce certain areas from incoming fire. Anti Fighter weaponry. Countermissile missiles and point defence clusters. There would be a lot for such a position to do in combat. Not a lot outside combat, but a fair bit during combat.

Allowing each station to be multipurpose would be the only way to really counter this - or rather mitigate it.


However, Multicrew can't really come into its own until FD provide 1: Ships built and designed around multicrew and 2: Encounters where Multicrew is a necessity.
 
*DonsTinfoil Hat*

Has anyone noticed how high res the textures are on lava worlds just lately? Much much improved. Scan one and the system map displays the gravity of the planet as well.

As far as I'm aware, the system map only shows the gravity of landable planets, not non-landable ones. Someone proving me wrong would be welcome, but I'm in Col 285 Sector AL-X D1-47, and there's a large lava world there with 2.04G.

My theory is that either 2.3 or 2.4 we're going to be able to land on these lava worlds. I did try just in case we just hadn't noticed we could land on them, but I couldn't. Still, the fact that the textures have improved massively and these are the only non-landable planets to display gravity in the system map, tells me we may be in for a treat.

What do you guys think?

That would be a treat. Although while I look forward to being able to land on any type of world, it doesn't mean much unless we have something interesting to find/do on them. As No Man's Sky has proven just adding trees, oceans and weird animals doesn't make a good game.
 
*DonsTinfoil Hat*

Has anyone noticed how high res the textures are on lava worlds just lately? Much much improved. Scan one and the system map displays the gravity of the planet as well.

As far as I'm aware, the system map only shows the gravity of landable planets, not non-landable ones. Someone proving me wrong would be welcome, but I'm in Col 285 Sector AL-X D1-47, and there's a large lava world there with 2.04G.

My theory is that either 2.3 or 2.4 we're going to be able to land on these lava worlds. I did try just in case we just hadn't noticed we could land on them, but I couldn't. Still, the fact that the textures have improved massively and these are the only non-landable planets to display gravity in the system map, tells me we may be in for a treat.

What do you guys think?

I've just proven myself wrong here. Gravity does show for non-landable planets as well generally.
 
Hardly, this thread reads like a cheap sci-fi fan fiction. Hundreds of posts describing the fictional science behind how a someone can jump aboard their friends ship from anywhere with no waiting. The "white knights" in this case are trying to say it doesn't matter how we get there. Because it's a game and we're just hoping one of the slowest moving modern titles finds a way to be more fun. It's the folks who insist on a scientific reason, and baring that, adding enough conditions to the feature that nobody will ever use it, that keep derailing this thread.

I want multicrew to succeed. Really. I don't expect it to but I want it to. Even with this implementation, I think that controlling your own ship and being your own master will - overall - be a more enjoyable experience.

But - I do not think this is a good implementation.

I do not like the idea that multicrew adds extra pips. That's an attempt to make multicrew more enjoyable and worth using in place of a Wing.
I do not like the "Cap it at three players". That means if I have a Wing, only two can join me. We'll need the fourth on his ship. So why not keep the Wing?
I am not a fan of the Intstacrew concept. It undermines explorations, undermines various challenges and feats within the game, doesn't make sense and breaks the suspension of disbelief factor.
I do not like the way system is setup. If I don't have turrets or fighters on my ship, then multicrew is useless.
I do not like the way the players have the option of wiping their record clean. That's just crying out for griefing.
I do not like the way rewards are duplicated instead of shared.
I do not like the way the focus is on combat and nothing but combat.
I do not like having control taken away from the CMDR and passed to someone else, even if they are just turrets and missiles.
And so on.

Sure - the drop in drop out aspect is going to be good for some players. But if all you want to do is cater to drop-ins and drop-outs, why not simply make a big push with CQC? Integrate it into the game by giving each system it's own arena and add a join option from the station menu. Add NPC opponents, meaningful prizes, and some more game types. Maybe even a yearly tournament setup. Given the combat orientated focus of the current Multicrew system, you'd be looking at the same basic setup.

Will Instacrew add value to the game? No...I can't say that it will. I can be off exploring and then, if I want some combat, I can just teleport back, pewpewpew and then teleport back. I can be in the bubble and then decide I want to see Beagle point. I can join a crew and earn credits simply by doing nothing so why should I trade or do missions? If I'm in combat and need help, I can just contact a friend who'll be able to provide an instant buff for a couple of minutes. I can join the crews of several ships and have each one configured for the task I want to do...I want to blast things, I join the combat ship. I want to explore? I join the explorer. And so on.

So - just who exactly is Instajoin going to benefit? Friends who are already in a Wing? Who already have four ships working together? Who already work to a schedule where they meet up and work together? Or the casuals who want to join up, blast a few things and wipe their records clean at the end of the night?

Multicrew is important for what the underlying technology will allow in the future., it is worth adding. But it isn't adding enough to be a success, and what it does seem to be adding is going to impact negatively on a good many aspects of the game. Even if it were to come in, 2.3 is not the time to add Instacrew. It's always harder to nerf things later on, to take stuff away and by then the damage will be done.

The tightest way to add Multicrew would be to have all three members docked at the same station. Frontier can judge later on if this requirement would need to be relaxed, after it has seen the effect on the rets of the game.
 
I want multicrew to succeed. Really. I don't expect it to but I want it to. Even with this implementation, I think that controlling your own ship and being your own master will - overall - be a more enjoyable experience.

But - I do not think this is a good implementation.

I do not like the idea that multicrew adds extra pips. That's an attempt to make multicrew more enjoyable and worth using in place of a Wing.
I do not like the "Cap it at three players". That means if I have a Wing, only two can join me. We'll need the fourth on his ship. So why not keep the Wing?
I am not a fan of the Intstacrew concept. It undermines explorations, undermines various challenges and feats within the game, doesn't make sense and breaks the suspension of disbelief factor.
I do not like the way system is setup. If I don't have turrets or fighters on my ship, then multicrew is useless.
I do not like the way the players have the option of wiping their record clean. That's just crying out for griefing.
I do not like the way rewards are duplicated instead of shared.
I do not like the way the focus is on combat and nothing but combat.
I do not like having control taken away from the CMDR and passed to someone else, even if they are just turrets and missiles.
And so on.

Sure - the drop in drop out aspect is going to be good for some players. But if all you want to do is cater to drop-ins and drop-outs, why not simply make a big push with CQC? Integrate it into the game by giving each system it's own arena and add a join option from the station menu. Add NPC opponents, meaningful prizes, and some more game types. Maybe even a yearly tournament setup. Given the combat orientated focus of the current Multicrew system, you'd be looking at the same basic setup.

Will Instacrew add value to the game? No...I can't say that it will. I can be off exploring and then, if I want some combat, I can just teleport back, pewpewpew and then teleport back. I can be in the bubble and then decide I want to see Beagle point. I can join a crew and earn credits simply by doing nothing so why should I trade or do missions? If I'm in combat and need help, I can just contact a friend who'll be able to provide an instant buff for a couple of minutes. I can join the crews of several ships and have each one configured for the task I want to do...I want to blast things, I join the combat ship. I want to explore? I join the explorer. And so on.

So - just who exactly is Instajoin going to benefit? Friends who are already in a Wing? Who already have four ships working together? Who already work to a schedule where they meet up and work together? Or the casuals who want to join up, blast a few things and wipe their records clean at the end of the night?

Multicrew is important for what the underlying technology will allow in the future., it is worth adding. But it isn't adding enough to be a success, and what it does seem to be adding is going to impact negatively on a good many aspects of the game. Even if it were to come in, 2.3 is not the time to add Instacrew. It's always harder to nerf things later on, to take stuff away and by then the damage will be done.

The tightest way to add Multicrew would be to have all three members docked at the same station. Frontier can judge later on if this requirement would need to be relaxed, after it has seen the effect on the rets of the game.

I agree that it needs much more to it than what they've currently proposed if they really want to improve the game.

Exploration can't be undermined because it has nothing to undermine. There's no gameplay in exploration. It's just a thin demo of a solar system generator. I'm not convinced by people who suggest it reduces the accomplishments of finding some of the hard to get to places. Just because I can already do that. It's called Youtube. Sag A and Beagle Pt are already at the touch of a button. And honestly, watching a video of someone "exploring" those places is the exact same experience of doing it yourself. The exploration mechanic in Elite is so shallow.

I want them to add more roles, but since exploration and trading are already so simple, I'm not sure what those extra roles could be. As it is solo pilots are already bored out of their minds operating the entire ship for those elements.

Frankly I see multi-crew as just an extension of Wings. It's just another way to interact and play with your friends, which is a good thing, and it is useful when you have a pilot like myself, who flies a pimped out Anaconda, and my son, who flies a piece of junk Cobra, as soon as 2.3 comes out we'll be using it quite a bit.

But It won't add much to the game until more is added into the game itself.

The problem with requiring everyone to be at the same station is that'll never happen unless they are 3 people who already know each other and planned it out. The odds of sitting in a station and finding a ship docked with the "looking for crew" flag on are slim to none. With Wings at least we can hit a combat zone or RES and see some other random guys playing and wing up. How long do you sit in a station doing nothing? Clearly Frontier wants this feature to be heavily used. That won't happen if you severly limit when it can be activated solely because it satisfies the OCD of the hard core immersion folks.
 
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