The Star Citizen Thread v5

[BurnyBurns]

I am sure they know that weak gameplay will kill all backers dreams fast..whats the point to have nice ships if you do not have anything to do with them...

They have manouvered themselves into a trap they don't seem to be able to climb out of. They collected money for ever more ludicrous promises of the BDSSE. But by piling onto their promises, when they apparently aren't even able to deliver the original ones, they've pushed their targetted game ever farther beyond their capabilities.

Frontier had to endure backlash for cutting the single player mode. How, compared ot the actually released Elite in 2014, the offline mode would've made up for any lack of depth people might have taken and do take issue with is beyond me (what's decribed in the DDF is about 3x the game Elite is even now, so "offline mode" seams to by synonymous for "getting 3x the work done with the same resource"), but the resentment was irrational, to say the least. None of those people payed 500$ for one spaceship however of spend months whitewashing every evident crack in the wall of the project.

If they'll ever reach a 1.0 release, CIG ought te be pretty afraid.

 

[xyphic]

Huge mistake for CIG was to reject MVP path for Star Citizen. At one point they had enough money to reject CryEngine, do their own from scratch, and start with MVP and get it rolling ASAP. Let's face it - it was clear from 2013 CryEngine didn't cut a mustard. If they could dropped it things would look different.

It's deliciously tempting to go down the "they could have rolled their own engine" path, and I've been guilty of that myself. If CIG had been making this game with a traditional funding model, they could have spent the first 3-4 years just working on the engine and toolset. But they aren't using a traditional funding model, and part of the reason they've taken in so many people much money is that they've been able to consistently produce good-looking "in-engine" video content, and while the client may be extremely buggy it isn't half pretty.

If they'd spent that 3-4 years producing their own engine and toolset, they'd have a really solid foundation but it wouldn't be anything like as pretty as CryEngine -- that would likely come with time -- and I don't think they'd have the same goodwill or cash reserves as they do now. Crowdfunding and games just aren't a good fit.

 

[BurnyBurns]

If they'd spent that 3-4 years producing their own engine and toolset, they'd have a really solid foundation but it wouldn't be anything like as pretty as CryEngine -- that would likely come with time -- and I don't think they'd have the same goodwill or cash reserves as they do now. Crowdfunding and games just aren't a good fit.

That's the same sweeping statement as "they shouldn't have gone for CryEngine". Crowdfunding worked for Elite, but it also lead to an expanded early access game to ensure continued development, not a traditional closed "AAA" production that instead feeds on hopes and dreams. Aka, expanded crowdfunding rather than early access.

 

[darkoff]

Lets look star citizen development based on promised features alone.

2014: original release date missed, and original kickstarter product undelivered, thats fine delays happen
20 million dollars spend?

2015: 2.0 turns out to be quite smaller than expected and sq42 aint nowhere to be seen, That is fine much larger 3.0 will fix everything
20 million dollars spend. In UK alone

2016: 3.0 is completely missing and 2.0 is only getting maintenance mode updates, and star marine turns out to be quite generic fps (missing all the cool stuff they showcased in earlier demos)
20 million dollars spend.In Uk alone

2017: 3.0 will be out late this year same with sq42.(not likely to happen on both of these events, maybe theres somekind of mvp that doesnt resemble anything they promised)
3.1?
mining
refineries
quantum interdictions
refueling

2018:
3.2
salvage
repair
3.3
farming
rescue
4.0.
exploration
science

Road mapped contend ends.

2019:5.0
cockpit decorations
melee combat
heavy weapons
tablet companion app

bengal carrier in PU

2020: 6.0
Command and Control Center – Supervise the battle from the deck of your Idris or Destroyer (class TBA) with advanced C&C packages that allow you to tie all of your ships together and assume central command from the 3rd seat.

Space Station management

2021: 7.0
Public Transportation System

Enhanced Capital Ship Systems – In addition to the command and control systems we’ve already outlined, we’re going to expand capital ship functions! Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.

Stellar Cartography

Alien Languages – Do you speak Banu? We will work with real-world linguists to create distinctive and realistic alien languages for Star Citizen’s three biggest alien races, the Vanduul, the Xi’An and the Banu. No universal translators, no garbled animal noises: Star Citizen’s aliens will be speaking their own authentic languages!

2022:8.0
INDEPENDENT ARBITRATOR’S GUILD – Have you been wronged by your superiors? Has the member of your organization entrusted with watching the funds, been watching them go into their own pocket? Think you don’t have any recourse? You’re wrong. Fully licensed and bonded to work within the UEE and beyond, the Independent Arbitrator’s Guild allows citizens (and civilians, we don’t discriminate!) to file complaints against (or within) private organizations. Petition cases with our IAG representatives to have your voice heard and restitutions made. Is your business less than legitimate? IAG is only here to judge the matters you want us to. Confidentiality is guaranteed.

Enhanced Ship Modularity

pets

VR

2023:9.0
modding support and private servers

2024:10.0 work begins on implementing stuff chris has promised in 10 for the chairman
Gravity Generators
Hull Breaches
Inertia on objects not anchored on ships
Wreckage as a navigational hazard
Using inertia for flight rather than burning fuel all the time
Dangerous and Dynamic Jump Points
Changeable gravity systems for ships
Booby traps and trackers for cargo
Detailed navigation system

2025:11,0
Ship repair and cleanliness/degradation
Organization Infiltration
Playing as another alien race
In depth non-FTL communication
Character damage and aging
Character histories and/or ancestral trees
Dynamic population count

2026: 12.0
In-fiction “Live Team” that will report player driven events as in-fiction news
Large scale dynamic events
Player Rating System
Organization reputation system
Damageable cyborg limbs and cybernetic repair facilities
Dynamic social interaction with NPCs

2027: 13.0
Galactapedia
Space creatures
Cargo damage (item damage)
Docking and Undocking Tech
Realistic Audio Options
Personally Owned NPCs

2028: 14.0
Getting Everyone into the Same Instance
Character Customization
Ship connected to User Online/Offline Status
Stealth Game Play
Rigging
Anchoring to an Asteroid

2029: 15.0
Non-Lethal Combat Modules
Raid Supply Shipments
Owning an Alien Ship
Catapulting Through Space
Jury Rig Repairing
Escape Pods

2030:16.0
Start up Sequence for Large Multi-Crew Ships
Remotely Hacking Ships
Pacing NPC's
Game Generated Missions
Communication Between Two Ships
Controlled and Uncontrolled Space
NPC Crews
Guild Wars
Travelling in Fleets

2031:17.0
Trading weapons in the FPS
UI Customization
Assigning Ships to Landing Zones
Clothing Damage
Character Creator
Interior Damage System
Roaming Floating Structures
Electronic Warfare in the PU
NPC population in the PU

2032:18.0
Ship Aging
Linux Client
In game Banking
FPS environmental hazards
Physical grappling beam
Ship spoofing
Organic ships
Search players for weapons
Starting wars between the different races
Tractor Beams

2033:19.0
NPCs react to weapons
Drop pods
Limb Damage
Org recruiting NPCs
NPC & Human scanning

 

[hairychris]

If one's preferred gameplay is "exploring" 30,000 fairly identical airless beige planets - then SC is certainly not the game for them.

Ahh, I'm not sure that you understand the mind of the explorer. There's a certain thrill in knowing that you're the first person to ever see something and planting your metaphorical flag, even if it's beige world #23,876. The only reason that an explorer needs to do something massively time consuming and possibly dangerous is simply "because it's there".

Point being that to appeal to explorers in an MMO you need enough volume of content to satisfy this, even if that particular itch is completely incomprehensible to you personally!

Theres a saying in my country

"too many cooks spoil the soup"

Which means that you cannot let a whole group work on a single thing each one having his/her own ideas and expect a great result. You need to hunker down and follow ONE direction. The gamer community especially is a tough crowd to please and its universally true that you cannot please EVERYBODY. Most game designers think of a specific layout and follow that hoping for enough interest to complete their project. Community feedback is a great thing in such cases in order to slightly change the route or in case a better idea comes along but all in all developers have to mainly follow their OWN idea.

The community wont be able to come to a consensus and also doesnt have all the facts in order to make a responsible decision. This would include finanical resources, employee skillset, company infrastructure, timeline etc etc. Leaving decisions to the community would include a COMPLETE release of all available data...something thats not happening with CiG despite all the "open development" mumbo jumbo. Even the most hardcore backers admit that they have no idea whats happening behind the closed doors and how capable CiG is.....only in order to DEFEND the project against realists tho. Its still the most open development in history even tho nobody knows anything hehe.

Now CiG definately has ONE cook which is Chris Roberts the problem is that this guy has no idea what hes going to do, has no understanding of his teams skills or the technical capabilities. We know that people flat out told him "this cant be done" and got fired for it. Or better.....its not that certain things (PG for example) cannot be done but doing them would waste so much time and resources that its a no-go from the start. All things CR doesnt care about. Either he believes he tapped a bottomless pit when it comes to backer support or he simply is dilusional and doesnt know his own facts.


Right now Star Citizen is in a dilemma. Due to the continual financial support the backers ARE indeed entitled to more information or at least respect yet CiG continues to lie, mispresent or simply remains silent to questions. At this point in development nothing should be left to chance. Everything "should" be fixed down, design done and only the technical realisation should be left. Yet they are still adding features which they cannot describe in detail and there hardly is a foundation you could call "base" for the game they aim for. As far as I m concerned we are watching history repeating itself. Chris Roberts failed hard on previous endeavors due to specific reasons (mainly his own incompetence) and the same is happening again only on a bigger scale with nobody who could reign him in.

I dont really see a company anymore which is "trying" to break boundariers and push into areas nobody else did. I only see a company barely surviving and holding on to the surface. Prove me wrong, I d be happy if anybody could.

It's "too many cooks spoil the broth" in the UK, which is the same thing.

(EDIT: Broth is a light or clear soup)

CIG's problem, from what I can see, is that they have one head chef who has an idea for the greatest banquet ever seen but hasn't decided exactly what the courses should be. All of his poor sous-chefs are making individual items to the best of their abilities, but half the time the head chef changes his mind over what he wants that dish to taste like (so it's thrown away and started again) and is continually adding courses to the whole thing.

The diners have already paid for the meal in advance and no-one is sure how many ingredients are actually left in the pantry...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It's deliciously tempting to go down the "they could have rolled their own engine" path, and I've been guilty of that myself. If CIG had been making this game with a traditional funding model, they could have spent the first 3-4 years just working on the engine and toolset. But they aren't using a traditional funding model, and part of the reason they've taken in so many people much money is that they've been able to consistently produce good-looking "in-engine" video content, and while the client may be extremely buggy it isn't half pretty.

If they'd spent that 3-4 years producing their own engine and toolset, they'd have a really solid foundation but it wouldn't be anything like as pretty as CryEngine -- that would likely come with time -- and I don't think they'd have the same goodwill or cash reserves as they do now. Crowdfunding and games just aren't a good fit.

Yeah, as I wrote...more I think about it, more I just don't see how it could end up any different way.

Choose CryEngine -> waste years of doing shiny art assets but nothing else -> run out of money before can release anything substantial.

Choose do your own engine -> spend 3 years for first concept release -> get way less money and still potentially not being able to finish game.

Both scenarios could play differently if strict regime and money spending would have applied. I believe Chris could have gotten at least 60M if second scenario would have unfolded. As evident, people just need concept art and shots to get their fantasies going. So I think their own engine - or picking up potentially new engine - might have gone better.

But then it is Chris. He is not exactly technical guy. And that's why this project is a bit doomed in that perspective. Because to pull off those scales - even for SC and Squadron 42 - you need good command of technical and game design knowledge. None of that Chris possess.

 

[MTBFritz]

snip

That list scared the bajeezus out of me

 

[ianw]

Ahh, I'm not sure that you understand the mind of the explorer. There's a certain thrill in knowing that you're the first person to ever see something and planting your metaphorical flag, even if it's beige world #23,876. The only reason that an explorer needs to do something massively time consuming and possibly dangerous is simply "because it's there".

Point being that to appeal to explorers in an MMO you need enough volume of content to satisfy this, even if that particular itch is completely incomprehensible to you personally!

Exactly that - people like the idea that they are the first to see something in game - in the case of full PG that even the devs won't have seen specifically - and theyget to be named in game as the discoverer,

You can't really do that with such a small finite number of systems. It looks like it will be more like treasure hunt/discover new things rather than what people would consider to be "exploration".

 

[Asylum]

It's deliciously tempting to go down the "they could have rolled their own engine" path, and I've been guilty of that myself. If CIG had been making this game with a traditional funding model, they could have spent the first 3-4 years just working on the engine and toolset. But they aren't using a traditional funding model, and part of the reason they've taken in so many people much money is that they've been able to consistently produce good-looking "in-engine" video content, and while the client may be extremely buggy it isn't half pretty.

If they'd spent that 3-4 years producing their own engine and toolset, they'd have a really solid foundation but it wouldn't be anything like as pretty as CryEngine -- that would likely come with time -- and I don't think they'd have the same goodwill or cash reserves as they do now. Crowdfunding and games just aren't a good fit.

Having less money wouldn't have necessarily been bad thing. It sure hasn't helped the game and if they fail to deliver their promised vision than it will surely be the model coupled with CR management that killed the project.

Actually it's not money that is killing it, lack of leadership and seemingly terrible mismanagement.

Given this is almost a copy and paste job from Freelancer development it's pretty good estimation as to where the problems lie.

 

[BurnyBurns]

You can't really do that with such a small finite number of systems. It looks like it will be more like treasure hunt/discover new things rather than what people would consider to be "exploration".

Reasonable assumption, which makes the whole fantasy fluff spun around the several-hundred-dollars-plus-modules Endavor concept as well as the earlier Carrack mightily questionable.

In real world terms, what these concept hints at comes probably down more to farming and crafting game mechanics. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. So far Roberts has only provided a path of features to come, which fails short of being a roadmap, by having any realistic ETAs attached.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Yeah, as I wrote...more I think about it, more I just don't see how it could end up any different way.

Choose CryEngine -> waste years of doing shiny art assets but nothing else -> run out of money before can release anything substantial.

Choose do your own engine -> spend 3 years for first concept release -> get way less money and still potentially not being able to finish game.

Both scenarios could play differently if strict regime and money spending would have applied. I believe Chris could have gotten at least 60M if second scenario would have unfolded. As evident, people just need concept art and shots to get their fantasies going. So I think their own engine - or picking up potentially new engine - might have gone better.

But then it is Chris. He is not exactly technical guy. And that's why this project is a bit doomed in that perspective. Because to pull off those scales - even for SC and Squadron 42 - you need good command of technical and game design knowledge. None of that Chris possess.

He should have taken a lead from that other space game where the originator was brave enough to hand over his baby to people wh he knew had the experience and skill set to do the job.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

He should have taken a lead from that other space game where the originator was brave enough to hand over his baby to people wh he knew had the experience and skill set to do the job.

That guy knew he will do that other space game eventually so he nurtured and grew his team with lot of prep work and other projects.

If anything is evidence, it just shows how much you need to be prepared to even sign on for such monumental task. Dreaming is just not enough. I dream all the time. I just know some of them never will come true.

And even then as developer B. pointed out that guy wasn't fully prepared and they made some mistakes along the way. Luckly for us, it turned out to be just fine.

 

[Red Anders]

Reddit is a sad place - but this is totally a thing, and has been top post all day - WHEN IS OUR 3.0 COMING B...UDDY?

It's a less sad read. Despite the blind faith of the ultra devoted the enlightenment is coming

This is possibly the best thing I have ever read on reddit concerning this game. Not his wall of text, just his last paragraph about the monthly reports:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...go_and_publish_the_262_schedule_this/ddq0fq5/

If you refuse to read these its really only your fault. Dont blame the devs, they put out a massive amount of information for us when they dont really have to. Thats a lot of money poured into transparency for the sake of letting people get an idea of how a game is made.

Chris Morris and Armando Iannucci couldn't write this stuff. That's where your money is going, it's all being pumped into giving you the transparency. The fidelity of the transparency probably.

 

[Tippis]

Chris Morris and Armando Iannucci couldn't write this stuff. That's where your money is going, it's all being pumped into giving you the transparency. The fidelity of the transparency probably.

Well, it's a simulacrum of transparency at least — I'm not entirely convinced that it's all that fidelitous…

 

[Stigbob]

Without your pledges the fidelity of the spectrum will never be refactored for maximum diffusion of transparency.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Without your pledges the fidelity of the spectrum will never be refactored for maximum diffusion of transparency.

My transparency is sad because of Valentine's fidelity today

 

[Komemiute]

Without your pledges the fidelity of the spectrum will never be refactored for maximum diffusion of transparency.

 

[Stigbob]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/10/tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif

I've had to give you concept rep.

 

[dayrth]

Without your pledges the fidelity of the spectrum will never be refactored for maximum diffusion of transparency.

4 out of 5. Get subsumption in there for a perfect score

 

[Stormprooter]

So, not much to report on 2.6.1 patch then? LOL.

Off topic, but been totally absorbed by the Ancient Ruins thing in Elite - which has had it's issues, but still, it's been a nerd's paradise for me this past few weeks.