Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[House0fDerp]

Yes, here we are on the same page. I am not against the 360 outside POV at all. I just think it would give back immersion if that "render" has a more holographic look (like we have that little shimmer when a cmdr enters the ship in multicrew). Also a gyro chair was mentioned earlier. Or some transparent sphere, etc.

Not sure why that would be desirable over a full render from the standpoint of my commander. As a player I can see some preference, but that approach seems the counter-intuitive one from which to approach immersion.

ALSO! From a player standpoint an entirely different render may be desirable, but from a dev standpoint someone may be imagining you're demise in creative ways for the very suggestion.

 

[Chrysophylax]

Or if thats too difficult for you to wrap your head around, would it be an ok compromise if when the other crew mates look back at your character, they have a 1300 year old oculus rift strapped to their face? Because I would be ok with that compromise actually.

It would look totally awesome to see the person sitting there flailing their head about like a fool

FDev, my immersions demands this become reality

 

[Kermit Laphroaig]

Also not sure if this was voiced yet, but this is a slippery slope to 3rd person view for the pilot. If that happens, then it's no longer a matter of preference, since anyone who plays in First Person mode will be at a competitive disadvantage. In which case I'll be forced to delete the game from my hard drive.

Is there a fund I can contribute to to speed this process up at all? Can we take up a collection?

 

[Cobra1984]

Also not sure if this was voiced yet, but this is a slippery slope to 3rd person view for the pilot. If that happens, then it's no longer a matter of preference, since anyone who plays in First Person mode will be at a competitive disadvantage. In which case I'll be forced to delete the game from my hard drive.

This was the exact same argument used in 2014 against the introduction of an external cam, and Frontier don't seem to have went down that particular slippery slope in two and a half years. I don't necessarily see how the turret implementation is going to lead to the game suddenly becoming third person, and I don't think that would be a popular change even it they did.

It's a bit arcadey but it's really the only way to do it - imagine trying to use your SRV turret with someone else driving it, not fun, not something I can imagine anyone wanting to actually use.

 

[jonesskill]

Listen guys: The multicrew already sucks if it be implemented like they show... and you guys want a nerf on a nerfed stuff?

Let's realize: To the gunner shoot: you need turrets, turrets have a VERY LOW DPS compared to gimbal and fixed... so... fitting your ship to multicrew make you lose DPS, actually.

"Oh but you get an extra PIP" - What i will do with this extra pip? My vette like many others already use 4/0/2 pip manangement to fire MC and maintain shield, this extra PIP will be used to ENG... so i'ts worthless... i will not decrease my dps to boost/turn a little bit faster.

We need a REAL CAMERA - You can use the SC turret view... that view makes sense. We need extra hardponts to a new type of turrets: Let's imagine - Huge turrets, like fixed weapons, no target assist. just like the fixed weapons that we use today - but the gunner will can turn around and move their turret aim in a 180º arc. - MAKE THESE weapons STRONG, much more stronger than the standart weapons - ( AND EXPENSIVE TOO).

Actually in that gameplay we can see that "one multicrewed ship " i'ts NOT strong like a WING, actually that corvette have LOWER DPS than a standart one with Gimbaled pulses/MC, that EXTRA pip don't do nothing, really... Common guys a "Multicrewed" corvette take alot of time to take down an adder???? a NPC ADDER????

 

[Tsao Nima]

it's not "arcadey" you dorks, we literally have this in our military tech right now

 

[Chrysophylax]

It's almost as if an argument to stop being a fallacious slippery slope one has to actually demonstrate a causal relationship from 'x feature' to 'y doomsaying'

Wait what am I saying, uh, with 3rd person view windows will literally uninstall itself

 

[jonesskill]

Listen guys: The multicrew already sucks if it be implemented like they show... and you guys want a nerf on a nerfed stuff?

Let's realize: To the gunner shoot: you need turrets, turrets have a VERY LOW DPS compared to gimbal and fixed... so... fitting your ship to multicrew make you lose DPS, actually.

"Oh but you get an extra PIP" - What i will do with this extra pip? My vette like many others already use 4/0/2 pip manangement to fire MC and maintain shield, this extra PIP will be used to ENG... so i'ts worthless... i will not decrease my dps to boost/turn a little bit faster.

We need a REAL CAMERA - You can use the SC turret view... that view makes sense. We need extra hardponts to a new type of turrets: Let's imagine - Huge turrets, like fixed weapons, no target assist. just like the fixed weapons that we use today - but the gunner will can turn around and move their turret aim in a 180º arc. - MAKE THESE weapons STRONG, much more stronger than the standart weapons - ( AND EXPENSIVE TOO).

Actually in that gameplay we can see that "one multicrewed ship " i'ts NOT strong like a WING, actually that corvette have LOWER DPS than a standart one with Gimbaled pulses/MC, that EXTRA pip don't do nothing, really... Common guys a "Multicrewed" corvette take alot of time to take down an adder???? a NPC ADDER????

Before someone talk about it: HUGE TURRET ( MC EXCLUSIVE ONES) TO CORVETTE and the another bigs, medium/large hardpoints to the mediums and Small to the small ones.

 

[MyHammer]

Not sure why that would be desirable over a full render from the standpoint of my commander. As a player I can see some preference, but that approach seems the counter-intuitive one from which to approach immersion.

ALSO! From a player standpoint an entirely different render may be desirable, but from a dev standpoint someone may be imagining you're demise in creative ways for the very suggestion.

Let's take the new shimmer effect they had built in when a cmdr pops in multicrew. You don't need that to play the game. But it adds a certain depth and adds to the lore (whatever your opinion is about holographic long range transmissions anyway). For me it would add depth if the gunner view would not just be the pure 1:1 render of the "real" cam view, but somehow more recognisable as a holographic interpretation of data the ships sensors provide for the gunner.

 

[Ziljan]

This was the exact same argument used in 2014 against the introduction of an external cam, and Frontier don't seem to have went down that particular slippery slope in two and a half years. I don't necessarily see how the turret implementation is going to lead to the game suddenly becoming third person, and I don't think that would be a popular change even it they did.

It's a bit arcadey but it's really the only way to do it - imagine trying to use your SRV turret with someone else driving it, not fun, not something I can imagine anyone wanting to actually use.

This is not a vanity cam. They have introduced a 3rd person combat HUD, so now there is no technical reason why a pilot couldn't also have this option.

You say they haven't slid down in 2 years... but I look around and we already halfway down the mountain. Frontier is undoing the sense of "being there" that made the game great in the first place.

 

[Cobra1984]

Let's take the new shimmer effect they had built in when a cmdr pops in multicrew. You don't need that to play the game. But it adds a certain depth and adds to the lore (whatever your opinion is about holographic long range transmissions). For me it would add depth if the gunner view would not just be the pure 1:1 render of the "real" cam view, but somehow more recognisable as a holographic interpretation of data the ships sensors provide for the gunner.

The turret view could get hit with bursts of static or something when the ship takes damage. There's a ton of little graphical things you could do to remind the player it's some sort of camera/drone/whatever and they literally aren't outside there, floating around in the darkness controlling a battery of ship turrets by waving their hands around - as if you really need that but hey.

 

[Chrysophylax]

Let's take the new shimmer effect they had built in when a cmdr pops in multicrew. You don't need that to play the game. But it adds a certain depth and adds to the lore (whatever your opinion is about holographic long range transmissions). For me it would add depth if the gunner view would not just be the pure 1:1 render of the "real" cam view, but somehow more recognisable as a holographic interpretation of data the ships sensors provide for the gunner.

Seems reasonable, as long as it's optional. It would be detrimental to my enjoyment of this feature were it mandatory tho.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

This is not a vanity cam. They have introduced a 3rd person combat HUD, so now there is no technical reason why a pilot couldn't also have this option.

You say they haven't slid down in 2 years... but I look around and we already halfway down the mountain. Frontier is undoing the sense of "being there" that made the game great in the first place.

They don;t understand that a slippery slope fallacy requires you be making an assumption about the future, not an actual observation on what has taken place. We are halfway down the slope. They are the ones that need the X-Y hand holding, but some people are just not that perceptive..

 

[Dabir]

This is not a vanity cam. They have introduced a 3rd person combat HUD, so now there is no technical reason why a pilot couldn't also have this option.

You say they haven't slid down in 2 years... but I look around and we already halfway down the mountain. Frontier is undoing the sense of "being there" that made the game great in the first place.

No they aren't.

 

[Tuwhena]

It's almost as if an argument to stop being a fallacious slippery slope one has to actually demonstrate a causal relationship from 'x feature' to 'y doomsaying'

Wait what am I saying, uh, with 3rd person view windows will literally uninstall itself

Don't tempt them.

 

[Tsao Nima]

Let's take the new shimmer effect they had built in when a cmdr pops in multicrew. You don't need that to play the game. But it adds a certain depth and adds to the lore (whatever your opinion is about holographic long range transmissions). For me it would add depth if the gunner view would not just be the pure 1:1 render of the "real" cam view, but somehow more recognisable as a holographic interpretation of data the ships sensors provide for the gunner.

so instead of taking the data straight from the ship's cameras like sane people would, you want to add an obscuring filter because it "adds depth". that actually does sound like the kind of psycho thing an imperial noble would do but literally nobody else in the game would choose that, it would break my immersion incredibly if I saw that on a ship

 

[Chrysophylax]

They don;t understand that a slippery slope fallacy requires you be making an assumption about the future, not an actual observation on what has taken place. We are halfway down the slope. They are the ones that need the X-Y hand holding, but some people are just not that perceptive..

Also not sure if this was voiced yet, but this is a slippery slope to 3rd person view for the pilot. If that happens, then it's no longer a matter of preference, since anyone who plays in First Person mode will be at a competitive disadvantage. In which case I'll be forced to delete the game from my hard drive.

By the way, an opinion isn't the same as an observation. Just a heads up.

 

[MyHammer]

Listen guys: The multicrew already sucks if it be implemented like they show... and you guys want a nerf on a nerfed stuff?

Let's realize: To the gunner shoot: you need turrets, turrets have a VERY LOW DPS compared to gimbal and fixed... so... fitting your ship to multicrew make you lose DPS, actually.

"Oh but you get an extra PIP" - What i will do with this extra pip? My vette like many others already use 4/0/2 pip manangement to fire MC and maintain shield, this extra PIP will be used to ENG... so i'ts worthless... i will not decrease my dps to boost/turn a little bit faster.

We need a REAL CAMERA - You can use the SC turret view... that view makes sense. We need extra hardponts to a new type of turrets: Let's imagine - Huge turrets, like fixed weapons, no target assist. just like the fixed weapons that we use today - but the gunner will can turn around and move their turret aim in a 180º arc. - MAKE THESE weapons STRONG, much more stronger than the standart weapons - ( AND EXPENSIVE TOO).

Actually in that gameplay we can see that "one multicrewed ship " i'ts NOT strong like a WING, actually that corvette have LOWER DPS than a standart one with Gimbaled pulses/MC, that EXTRA pip don't do nothing, really... Common guys a "Multicrewed" corvette take alot of time to take down an adder???? a NPC ADDER????

I really hope that this is only a first (side)step and they have planned multicrew with more roles (especially also non combat ones), and boarding the ships via legs, etc. on the long run. Braben said in one of the earlier dev videos that they imagine even the possibility to board an enemy ship and fight 1:1, as far as I remember, so if they havn't changed the roadmap entirely, we hopefully will see a different multicrew in the future.

 

[House0fDerp]

They don;t understand that a slippery slope fallacy requires you be making an assumption about the future, not an actual observation on what has taken place. We are halfway down the slope. They are the ones that need the X-Y hand holding, but some people are just not that perceptive..

Slippery slopes ARE assumptions about the future based on current observations. This has both the observation of gunner mechanics and the assumption it will extrapolate to the helm. He never observed that occurring or observed it being proposed so here we are with a slippery slope. As for half way down, we only have one point here, helm with 3rd person PoV. The first point was the initial position where it was unveiled for the gunner and we haven't moved from there unless Ziljan is a prophet that just forgot to tell us about his vision until after it came true.

 

[Tsao Nima]

Braben said in one of the earlier dev videos that they imagine even the possibility to board an enemy ship and fight 1:1

why wouldn't you primary the boarders while they're in space in this situation

alternately why wouldn't the guy getting boarded just combat log