Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[House0fDerp]

Are you guys missing the distinction Ziljan is making between 3rd person turret and 3rd person pilot views? Because it really seems like you are. Repeatedly.

To be fair IIRC he called the former unimmersive echoing the ops sentiment and further did create the slippery slope regarding the latter which led to the understanding.

Also some of us aren't opposed to 3rd person helm cams either. Armored cockpit with "tactical view?" Yes please.

 

[Ziljan]

Are you guys missing the distinction Ziljan is making between 3rd person turret and 3rd person pilot views? Because it really seems like you are. Repeatedly.

As short as this post is, it might be too long for your intended audience.

 

[akaliel]

Kind = Arcade gamers. People who prefer simple twitch base games and twitch based posting. Usually not too fond of books, reading, or details.

Wow that was rude. You do realize that some of us really enjoy reading, played thousands of hours into Skyrim, Witcher and Mass Effect and still prefer the easily accessable multi-crew mode that FD demonstrated today. Not that anybody needs to explain themselves to you.

 

[Tsao Nima]

Fair enough, but where does this tiny thing get the thrusters to

A. Keep up with the mothership
B. If tethered, retain it's independent attitude with regards to the ship.

it's vastly smaller mass so it doesn't need much force to keep up; assuming some reactionless system hasn't been discovered a small nuclear reactor should work well too. maybe someone would see a little flare near your ship when you accelerate?

main thing is that it wouldn't be able to track you in FSD since drives don't get that small and that makes me a sad whatever I am

 

[Cobra1984]

Are you guys missing the distinction Ziljan is making between 3rd person turret and 3rd person pilot views? Because it really seems like you are.

I haven't missed his point at all, and I have shown very clearly in a couple of lengthy posts why I think he is mistaken and that the concern is entirely misplaced.

I don't think this is about third person turrets leading to third person piloting at all, I think it's becoming clear what the real root of this argument and the bad atmosphere on the forum is about, and I have said as much.

- - - Updated - - -

Kind = Arcade gamers. People who prefer simple twitch base games and twitch based posting. Usually not too fond of books, reading, or details.

Does that extend to PvP players and PvP groups as well?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Ziljan]

I haven't missed his point at all, and I have shown very clearly in a couple of lengthy posts why I think he is mistaken and that the concern is entirely misplaced.

I don't think this is about third person turrets leading to third person piloting at all, I think it's becoming clear what the real root of this argument and the bad atmosphere on the forum is about, and I have said as much.

You repeated a belief that is not based in any kind of objective assessment of the existing trajectory of the game. Instead positing a false declaration that the game hadn't slid any further into arcade mode with the new vanity cam (which btw you can dynamically shoot from now), and that 3rd person combat cam with gunnery was completely unrelated. Another false claim, since pro-arcade people have already made the same connection and request in this very thread.

You're argument seems to be rooted in a either a strong denial of the facts or ignorance of the facts. Either way, it was pretty unpersuasive that we aren't already sliding down a slippery slope.

 

[House0fDerp]

You repeated a belief that is not based in any kind of objective assessment of the existing trajectory of the game. Instead positing a false declaration that the game hadn't slid any further into arcade mode with the new vanity cam (which btw you can dynamically shoot from now), and that 3rd person combat cam with gunnery was completely unrelated. Another false claim.

You're argument seems to be rooted in a either a strong denial of the facts or ignorance of the facts. Either way, it was pretty unpersuasive that we aren't already sliding down a slippery slope.

Except that arcade trajectory consists at present of a single, unreleased feature that has crippling usability issues without it.

 

[Jason S]

It's a very nice looking and full and complex game that will go on for very many years I hope.

But it is still a game, it is not called Spaceship Simulator.

 

[Ziljan]

Except that arcade trajectory consists at present of a single, unreleased feature that has crippling usability issues without it.

Umm, you seem to have internet scan reading syndrome. You quoted TWO features. Not a one. And if you scroll up, you'll see I already added a 3rd.

 

[Nuarb]

Kind = Arcade gamers. People who prefer simple twitch base games and twitch based posting. Usually not too fond of books, reading, or details.

Lmao, you are a miserable human being, oh, I'm sorry, I mean your "kind" are miserable human beings that feel they are entitled to having their every whim pandered to. There is no 3rd person control of your ship, there will never be a 3rd person control of your ship. Save your whining and stomping temper tantrum for when something actualy happens, not for a fun game feature that doesn't effect you or do any of these terrible things you fear.

Sorry, lets back up a bit so I'm not being quite so nasty. The real problem with your mindset and attitude is that you somehow see yourself above people with a different opinion. You have a superiority complex based on... of all laughable things... the particular way you enjoy spending your free time sitting at a computer playing pew pew spaceship game, vroooooom. This is a childish mentality, it is the attitude of a immature mind who has to have everything their way, and things that aren't their way are bad and the people enjoying them are bad people by proxy.

Look at what you seriously typed above. Ignoring for the moment that the people you're addressing may or may not even be "arcade gamers" (whatever that loaded phrase implies), you made a direct connection to looking down on human beings who, in theory like one type of video game play as BAD PEOPLE. I think that bares repeating, people who play video games... video games... differently from you, are BAD PEOPLE. They DON'T READ BOOKS, in other words, they are DUMB, NOT SMART, they are UNCULTURED, they are NOT SMART LIKE ME, they are, BAD PEOPLE. If someone can only really enjoy playing angry birds, that invalidates the rest of their life, their intelligence, their abilities? A skilled surgeon only really enjoys playing wii sports with her kids, well she must not even READ BOOKS, am I right? Video game genre enjoyment is the arbiter of a human being's worth? Do you know how insane that sounds?

People different from me are BAD PEOPLE. That is absolutely a toxic and childish tribal look at the world based on nothing. You need to back up and think about the things you say and imply, really look inside yourself and ask yourself why are you thinking/saying the things you are.

 

[Dabir]

You repeated a belief that is not based in any kind of objective assessment of the existing trajectory of the game. Instead positing a false declaration that the game hadn't slid any further into arcade mode with the new vanity cam (which btw you can dynamically shoot from now), and that 3rd person combat cam with gunnery was completely unrelated. Another false claim, since pro-arcade people have already made the same connection and request in this very thread.

You're argument seems to be rooted in a either a strong denial of the facts or ignorance of the facts. Either way, it was pretty unpersuasive that we aren't already sliding down a slippery slope.

I'm actually struggling to believe that someone could be as arrogant and paranoid as you about a goddamn video game.

E: You know what, I'll add judgemental, prejudiced, selfish, insecure and dodgy as hell to the pile as well. I mean christ, if the fear that some day, far in the future, despite it never, ever being announced as even being considered, this video game might be controlled in third person, is enough to make you lash out and decide that entire swathes of people are some horrible other, some awful and dread force known as arcade casuals who want to corrupt and degrade your precious entertainment... what are you like in real life? Go on, tell us who else you think is a degenerate.

 

[Cobra1984]

You repeated a belief that is not based in any kind of objective assessment of the existing trajectory of the game. Instead positing a false declaration that the game hadn't slid any further into arcade mode with the new vanity cam (which btw you can dynamically shoot from now), and that 3rd person combat cam with gunnery was completely unrelated. Another false claim.

You're argument seems to be rooted in a either a strong denial of the facts or ignorance of the facts. Either way, it was pretty unpersuasive that we aren't already sliding down a slippery slope.

I'm sorry but you are misprepresenting what I have said.

Your objection to the third person turret is that it represents a movement toward third person piloting - that's your argument.
I have pointed out that this same argument was used in 2014 against the original external cam and that as a 'slippery slope' it didn't come true.

Please quote any false claim I have made and if it's demonstrably false I will retract it straight away and apologise.

 

[mossfoot]

Ugh... if I might direct you all to this thread...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/330133-This-forum-Ark-B?p=5164390#post5164390

 

[Jason S]

I'm actually struggling to believe that someone could be as arrogant and paranoid as you about a goddamn video game.

Ít's Elite, and there is a minority of Elite hardcore purists. They are still a minority, although perhaps not always a minority on the forums...

 

[Tsao Nima]

You repeated a belief that is not based in any kind of objective assessment of the existing trajectory of the game. Instead positing a false declaration that the game hadn't slid any further into arcade mode with the new vanity cam (which btw you can dynamically shoot from now), and that 3rd person combat cam with gunnery was completely unrelated. Another false claim.

You're argument seems to be rooted in a either a strong denial of the facts or ignorance of the facts. Either way, it was pretty unpersuasive that we aren't already sliding down a slippery slope.

that's... really difficult to support, given that what makes something arcadey is amazingly subjective. raiden is an arcade game, but so is silent scope and that one sega flight sim nobody can beat

never mind that it's not clear what is being slid from, since the game has so many elements that aren't there to be realistic as much as they're there to be statistical obstacles. is the game sliding from a simulator to an arcade game? a CRPG to an arcade game? and if it is, how is this definitely a bad thing if it brings in more players that like the game? (remember that Frontier's goal is to make customers, not just make whatever they want)

most importantly - assuming there is a design shift, how are you going to argue your case to the developers without alienating them, since it doesn't matter if you're right if they don't care?

 

[lokvette]

Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds? Yes.

Watching the stream now, yeah MC not for me thanks, just hope what ever ED Lewis hinted at as in something coming that is better than what we've seen so far which isn't hard, is actually going to be worth the wait.

 

[House0fDerp]

Umm, you seem to have internet scan reading syndrome. You quoted TWO features. Not a one. And if you scroll up, you'll see I already added a 3rd.

No, we're just in disagreement that a vanity cam is a arcade feature.

Also what 3rd? You mean the speculation surrounding the 3rd person helm cam? That's still slippery slope territory, not actual trajectory.

And even if it were come to pass it still wouldn't be arcady. Situational awareness tools are actually quite common in some very complex and drawn out games.

 

[Ziljan]

It's a very nice looking and full and complex game that will go on for very many years I hope.

But it is still a game, it is not called Spaceship Simulator.

First person experience doesn't mean "simulator". It means feeling like you're there, which is the opposite of 3rd person arcade experience. And to extent that this lack of immersion can be avoided, I believe it should be.

In the case of the gunnery position, it can't be avoided. So it needs to be accepted as is. Unfortunately.

 

[Dabir]

Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds? Yes.

Watching the stream now, yeah MC not for me thanks, just hope what ever ED Lewis hinted at as in something coming that is better than what we've seen so far which isn't hard, is actually going to be worth the wait.

See? This is a good damn post by this forum's standards. This is all you whiners had to say. It's not for you, you won't do it, nobody's forcing you to do it, let's hope Ed's big reveal is more up your street. But no, something being not for Ziljan means nobody should have it.

 

[Tsao Nima]

First person experience doesn't mean "simulator". It means feeling like you're there, which is the opposite of 3rd person arcade experience.

this too, how are you going to convince me that 3rd person doesn't feel like I'm there

solve this and you'll get actual traction instead of having to ignore huge chunks of your audience