Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?
- Thread starter MyHammer
- Start date
Yup, you're getting it! Its a 3rd person view game, but I'm viewing this 3rd person reconstruction, from a first person view as I'm staring at two OLED screens! This is exactly identical to how your commander is first person, staring at a vr representation of a 3rd person view. In the same way no matter what OLED screens i'm looking at *I'm* still looking at them from first person, everything in elite is first person, you're just looking at a future version of an oculus rift.
Hmm maybe asking someone when they bought in and stuff is a bad argument and deflecting off answering questions. Maybe you weren't here for the dangerous games and the fallout many people saw when people left in droves due to the issues with engineers at launch. Maybe you should pay attention to what makes the game actually fun and will help promote longetivity and not a personal thing that won't help keep people interested and bring more in.
It's in the way this is about the gunner position for multicrewed ships and how you get surroundovision instead of station-select turret positions and all the ensuing debate instead of being about the SRV turret.
>___>
If they modeled that on a moving spaceship people using VR would throw up every time. It's not a matter of "couldn't be bothered," the "we aren't going to use a first person perspective for the turret" thing is entirely about not wanting to make it unplayable for VR users.
I mean, just out of curiosity, can you find me the promise "there will never, at any time, for the life of the product, ever be any implementation of anything but eyeballs in your space face first person, and furthermore those eyeballs will never ever look into anything that represents anything other than a cockpit HUD" ?
This isn't a take, I am genuinely curious about these promises, because while they do sound awfully short sighted they also do sound kind of like the sort of thing Frontier would say before realizing it's not a workable solution.
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Well... there are plenty of FPS games that allows you to see your characters feet when walking (if you look down). I see no difference between that and being in SRV turret mode and drive the SRV, being able to see parts of the SRV when driving.
The Gunner role in The Commanders is the first gameplay mechanic when a 3rd person camera is used. Up until now, the only 3rd person mode in this game has been the debug camera.
Sorry, but I just fail to see how people even regard the Turret mode in an SRV as third person... that is just... weird.
Well... there are plenty of FPS games that allows you to see your characters feet when walking (if you look down). I see no difference between that and being in SRV turret mode and drive the SRV, being able to see parts of the SRV when driving.
The Gunner role in The Commanders is the first gameplay mechanic when a 3rd person camera is used. Up until now, the only 3rd person mode in this game has been the debug camera.
Sorry, but I just fail to see how people even regard the Turret mode in an SRV as third person... that is just... weird.
There are currently misconceptions heard about the state of "reality" of your CMDR in any given view position in the game.
The simple way to solve this issue is to try and make the gunner cam appear more like a virutal tactical station - in other words, as if you're working the tactical controls ala Mr. Worf, but with more pizazz like the game provides.
Mechanics wise, it's really the best if not only way a gunner station could have been handled, BUT the current HUD view just gives the wrong impression of what's going on, leading to a lot of the frustration here, I think.
As for the piloting view, I hope it never changes. 3rd person piloting would be terrible for the game as a whole. But it's not something that anyone is ever going to convince anyone else about. The 3rd person types feel it would improve their gameplay because of the increased FOV and lack of objects in the way, and the 1st person types feel it would hurt their gameplay because if would effectively force them to play in 3rd person.
Both are correct.
However, I can't help but wonder if a video posted earlier might be a compromise (should it ever come to needing one)
[video=youtube;Ay6g66FbkmQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay6g66FbkmQ[/video]
Being able to easily toggle a similar feature could keep the 1st person view, yet provide pilots with a more useful range of view while in a dogfight.
Mechanics wise, it's really the best if not only way a gunner station could have been handled, BUT the current HUD view just gives the wrong impression of what's going on, leading to a lot of the frustration here, I think.
As for the piloting view, I hope it never changes. 3rd person piloting would be terrible for the game as a whole. But it's not something that anyone is ever going to convince anyone else about. The 3rd person types feel it would improve their gameplay because of the increased FOV and lack of objects in the way, and the 1st person types feel it would hurt their gameplay because if would effectively force them to play in 3rd person.
Both are correct.
However, I can't help but wonder if a video posted earlier might be a compromise (should it ever come to needing one)
[video=youtube;Ay6g66FbkmQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay6g66FbkmQ[/video]
Being able to easily toggle a similar feature could keep the 1st person view, yet provide pilots with a more useful range of view while in a dogfight.
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Alternatively:
We shouldn't throw out good game decisions because people are confused about lore.
You know what, I'll throw you a bone. I wouldn't mind if the gunner view could swap between different modes, a clean realistic mode, a thermal imaging mode, image enhancement, wireframe visualization target etc. Like i actually wouldn't have a problem and that would be kind of a neat feature if they could swap around. Someone is running cool and you can't pick them out on thermal mode? Well maybe they're visible in the clean standard mode, or maybe theres an electronic signal viewer mode that can pick up ships that are cool fine, but your view is then more computer artificial looking, like the orange wireframe stuff or something.
It could even be fun to have more utility for the gunner.
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If you combined your sensor and target display, you would already have a detailed enough view to explain how this is possible. When you target a ship, you can see their orientation relative to you at all times. You also know their position relative to you. It's not far fetched to believe that those two systems can be expanded on in a dedicated gunner station to provide a detailed and lifelike view for your crewman. All it has to do is replace the triangles and squares with the ship holograms and then add the textures and effects. Boom, now you have a holographic representation of the battle. Now, add an intuitive camera for your gunners and you get what FD have made for us.
I mean, if your ship can already give you everything except for the detailed textures and effects in three small holograms on your HUD, then surely it can do the rest in a station dedicated to it. I'm always trying to protect my immersion, so believe me when I say I have given it a lot of thought.
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Also, the "don't like it, don't use it" crowd are asking people who hate 3rd person to simply give up their views AND go without an entire feature. That's just disrespectful and selfish. I'll never defend the person who says we can't have 3rd person because they hate it, but there's no reason we can't ask for both.
I mean, if your ship can already give you everything except for the detailed textures and effects in three small holograms on your HUD, then surely it can do the rest in a station dedicated to it. I'm always trying to protect my immersion, so believe me when I say I have given it a lot of thought.
Slightly off-topic:
Also, the "don't like it, don't use it" crowd are asking people who hate 3rd person to simply give up their views AND go without an entire feature. That's just disrespectful and selfish. I'll never defend the person who says we can't have 3rd person because they hate it, but there's no reason we can't ask for both.
Your explanation does work. It begs the question 'why are we flying ships at all?' though. It undermines the basic premise of the game.
Of course not. This is a reading of the current state of affairs, not a justification for anyone's POV, so to speak.
Each game facet needs to be examined on its own merits rather than the kind of concept blanketing we get going on around here.
These overlays could also just add functionality to the current view that we have. The lore problem with the "have the guy looking at consoles in his chair" thing is that to the crewman CMDR sitting in his own chair in his own spaceship and who has telepresenced onto the ship on which he is a gunner, there is no point to add an extra layer of simulation when he could just simulate being around the ship, using all of that sensing data, which projects for him a view of the ship and its surroundings. Having different view-overlays based on the different sensors would be a cool thing, and maybe someday we can get that, but having them on consoles that the telepresent hologram interacts with, and then piping that interaction to the CMDR himself, who isn't physically present on the other ship, doesn't make a lot of sense.
Holographic telepresence is an established fact of the lore, so adding additional steps to make it more immersive for you, the player, in a way that would literally be less immersive for you, the in game avatar, seems really backwards. The present implementation maintains consistency with the lore and setting without making compromises to either gameplay or Elite canon, whereas what you're asking for would require us to suspend disbelief and imagine that it makes more sense to telepresently holoproject into another ship and then interact with virtually rendered screens, rather than just project that data.
Put another way, if today, right now in 2017, we had the technology for perfectly real, realer than life VR, and you wanted to play Elite: Dangerous, would you rather put on a VR helmet and project yourself to your computer where you boot up playing Elite via mouse and keyboard, or would you instead just project that you were in the spaceship?
In 3303, CMDRs use holographic VR to teleproject into a friend's ship, and man different stations on that ship. The ship bridge is the "social element," but when it's time to shoot things, they aren't gonna want to mess around with holographic screens and such like, that's insane. They'd just want to have the holographic overlay that best suits their needs. That's what we have here.
The "don't like it, don't use it" crowd are, many of us, afraid because the very last major named update was delayed for a long time because people demanded that things be rewritten to add an egg-timer because they don't understand the Elite setting very well. A lot of us are very excited to play Multicrew with friends (the Diamond Frogs have processed in over 50 returning players who are getting ready for multicrew to date) and we don't want to see indefinite delays because some people don't like 3rd person.
If Frontier finds a way to add other views and things like that without having to stop development on other features, that's great, but delaying things they have been working on for months in order to appease people who don't understand the setting of the game they're playing just isn't cool.
My gosh your posts are long and you still dont make sense. You make assumptions as if they are fact. You cant prove anything because I am not sure if you know this, we are playing a video game. Yeah its crazy right? Space ships in space. High energy lasers that you can actually see? Its nuts how realistic this game isnt.
DRONE!!!! The Holograph in the ship means squat its nothing but something to put the real pilot at ease. So now instead of being slaved to the internal view of the ship, you are slaved to the view from the Drone. I dont know where you are getting the assumption that all sensors on the ship are IR. The ship can use IR to lock on target. Any other sensors would only be usable to track a ships position and range. You think that all military jets work with IR only now? They have laser painted targets. What makes Silent running work is the fact that all the heat is hidden and you have 6 axis of freedom. You can trick the targeting lasers with chaff or an armor composite that absorbs the beams and doesnt bounce a signal back.
Ever heard Ranging lasers? We have those now as well ask anyone who shoots and sites in rifles. they exist. Had those puppies back in the 90s. Before that we always had to hand measure distance to the target or make a guess using scopes. But I believe that in 1000 years they might just might be able to duplicate the fine works of the 1990s and make a targeting laser.
How about this if FDEV is even reading this drivel can you just make the external camera to the ship visible and make it a tiny drone please? It hopefully would shut this crowd up fighting over first and third person views. Its getting dumb and I feel like the IQ of the entire community is dropping as these people speak longer.
They have no leg to stand on other than they enjoy whining about any and every single change made to the game that is still in development.
For the same reason people climb mountains, skydive, or put glass windows on spacecraft.
You have to see it for yourself. As battle goes, more practical concerns come to the fore―like a more effective way to control turreted weapons by human touch.