"deliver food is when system is in famine" what other task can you do when a system is in famine,if you want to influence the system out of famine ?
You are limited to your daily minor faction influence cap and one set of missions ,
After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.
- Thread starter Malakie
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"deliver food is when system is in famine" what other task can you do when a system is in famine,if you want to influence the system out of famine ?
You are limited to your daily minor faction influence cap and one set of missions ,
You can get into your comfort zone and go about your day of living in your personal ED world and just leave the big bad lvl 14 monster be, if thats not your cup of tea. Who said you had to follow a certain path? I'm sure you've hear this one before, "if you dont like it, dont do it". However I can tell you from personal experience and from many others on this forum, that many dont share your view. Lots of us (and I have a feeling its a majority) want that monster and more importantly an exciting, fun filled journey that goes along with getting to that Monster.
I think the issue is in the difference between "immersion" and "involvement".
In the ED community, everybody seems hung up on the idea of "immersion" but there's rarely any consideration of "involvement".
Course, the game doesn't exactly help that with it's rather impersonal text-based station menus.
When we look at the mission board, we do it with all the involvement of a person browsing eBay to look for the best deal on a new toaster.
If you want to rank-up with a faction or power you'll look for the missions that best allow you to achieve that.
When you're just trying to make money you'll pick the missions that pay the best.
And what incentive IS there to become more "involved"?
After all, you're looking at a UI that's about as appealing as a pension spreadsheet.
If you've ever played a game such as Skyrim or Fallout 4 then you'll probably be willing to admit that you made plenty of decisions that certainly weren't rational or logical.
You made decisions based on emotion, because you were involved with the NPCs you were interacting with.
That doesn't seem to happen in ED though.
The things that happen in the galaxy are presented to us in such an abstract, arbitrary manner that there's no incentive for involvement and, even if there was, we have our own goals and there's nothing to call our decisions into question.
Want to make money fast? Buy and sell slaves. Done deal.
People looking for help? Does it pay well or help me rank-up? Screw that.
I'm sure that many of us DO adopt our own role-playing moral-code in the game but there's no payoff for doing so.
You can be a heartless scumbag today and you can fight for a just cause tomorrow and as long as the rep/rank/credits are heading in the right direction, what's the problem?
If you really want the ED universe to become a more involving place, I think it needs more developed NPCs who'll actually hold the player to account over the choices they make and offer more of an insight into their own situaions.
In the ED community, everybody seems hung up on the idea of "immersion" but there's rarely any consideration of "involvement".
Course, the game doesn't exactly help that with it's rather impersonal text-based station menus.
When we look at the mission board, we do it with all the involvement of a person browsing eBay to look for the best deal on a new toaster.
If you want to rank-up with a faction or power you'll look for the missions that best allow you to achieve that.
When you're just trying to make money you'll pick the missions that pay the best.
And what incentive IS there to become more "involved"?
After all, you're looking at a UI that's about as appealing as a pension spreadsheet.
If you've ever played a game such as Skyrim or Fallout 4 then you'll probably be willing to admit that you made plenty of decisions that certainly weren't rational or logical.
You made decisions based on emotion, because you were involved with the NPCs you were interacting with.
That doesn't seem to happen in ED though.
The things that happen in the galaxy are presented to us in such an abstract, arbitrary manner that there's no incentive for involvement and, even if there was, we have our own goals and there's nothing to call our decisions into question.
Want to make money fast? Buy and sell slaves. Done deal.
People looking for help? Does it pay well or help me rank-up? Screw that.
I'm sure that many of us DO adopt our own role-playing moral-code in the game but there's no payoff for doing so.
You can be a heartless scumbag today and you can fight for a just cause tomorrow and as long as the rep/rank/credits are heading in the right direction, what's the problem?
If you really want the ED universe to become a more involving place, I think it needs more developed NPCs who'll actually hold the player to account over the choices they make and offer more of an insight into their own situaions.
Love this..... so true!
I love all of this. In Fallout, if you perturb a lot of people, they shoot you. I've been ing off the Mob of Gende for quite some time, and they just got "Hostile" which does nothing.
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I'll just go out on a limb here and take a wild stab in the dark and counter this with my own opinion that, no, the majority of us do not want an end of level baddie.
While I still enjoy the game, the OP does have a point. Most of the content that has been added is just more ways to do the same 5 things. After all the powerplay, engineering, multiplayer, wings, etc, the only things left to do are run another A-B mission, or blow up other ships (NPC or cmdrs in a res, cg, cz, or mission) or mine or explore. I understand the pg missions are complex (look at the trouble they are having with the mission fail bug), but they are still for the most part, very simplistic and repetitive. One thing games like Witcher 3 do well is make doing the same thing over and over seem different. Maybe some scripted events and unique non-pg mission chains could help this.
The extremely slow pace of development doesn't help either. I think part of this is complexity (huge galaxy, PG, trying to add whole new game modes that are compatible and expandable with future content, etc) , part is because we're really in the dark about what's next (maybe season 3 is mostly developed or maybe they haven't even started planning it. Who knows?), part may be with them being too fussy or insitent over certain features (really? Character creator took a year to develop? Maybe leaving out all the considerations for paid eyepatches, belt buckes, and scarves might have speeded it up), or simply allocating too many resources to other projects. I'm hoping season 3 is atmospheres and it adds more surface & exploration content as a result and another mission revamp. Whatever it is, it needs to be significant and compelling enough to get people to upgrade. The lack of communication doesn't really help. We still don't know what 2.4 is even going to be. The teaser doesn't reveal much, and that's still a ways off still
The extremely slow pace of development doesn't help either. I think part of this is complexity (huge galaxy, PG, trying to add whole new game modes that are compatible and expandable with future content, etc) , part is because we're really in the dark about what's next (maybe season 3 is mostly developed or maybe they haven't even started planning it. Who knows?), part may be with them being too fussy or insitent over certain features (really? Character creator took a year to develop? Maybe leaving out all the considerations for paid eyepatches, belt buckes, and scarves might have speeded it up), or simply allocating too many resources to other projects. I'm hoping season 3 is atmospheres and it adds more surface & exploration content as a result and another mission revamp. Whatever it is, it needs to be significant and compelling enough to get people to upgrade. The lack of communication doesn't really help. We still don't know what 2.4 is even going to be. The teaser doesn't reveal much, and that's still a ways off still
Certainly I can decide to engage or not in any aspect of the game. Nor does it bother me if others take on specific game play that I have no desire to do. The point is that ED is NOT a monster game, never was and hopefully never will be. Trying to make it like every other monster game out there just detracts from its uniqueness in the world of games. Given the relative few people on the forum who complain versus many many more who don't complain because they like the game and the 2 million in sales (and increasing) of the game I would suggest that the majority is not in your corner. And finally I would respond to your comment with "If you don't like it, play a game you do like".
If you want a monster game you will have to convince David Braben, not me. Good luck with that!
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However, we do know what Frontier has delivered thus far, and for a lot of us it has not been satisfactory. They continue to add new bolt on features while ignoring anemic existing ones. The core of the game goes neglected, and it is this languishing core of Elite which is causing much of the ill will of many players. Trading, exploring, mining (admittedly less so), and even piracy and bounty hunting to a degree, all of these mechanics have barely been touched upon since 1.0. That's a two and a half year period with little to no improvement to game mechanics. Lots of little quality of life improvements to the game, a plethora of new features and mechanics for the combat crowd, but other than some new eye candy out and about in the galaxy the game mechanics of the core of Elite has not been touched upon during development.
So we do have insight into what Frontier has done, and like Malakie stated in his OP, it's what they have not done which is hurting the franchise. Certainly development takes time, no one expects a fully featured game instantly, but sadly Frontier continues to devote development time to implementing new isolated foundations while almost completely neglecting the existing core of the game.
I'm already barely playing Elite at all, and unless Season 3 changes this core neglect I won't be buying it. For me the reason is exploration. I bought Elite based on the DDF and what Frontier said during the alpha stage, before 1.0, because the game they were saying they would make sounded incredible; a balanced game of not only combat but detailed trading with engaging features, and immersive exploration mixed with real science and very interesting game mechanics. The game they've developed over the past two and a half years is not that. What we thought were temporary placeholder mechanics for trading and exploration have remained untouched. Exploration doesn't even have missions yet, two and a half years later!!!!
I love the franchise, been with Elite since 1984 on my C64, and I'll keep watching how Frontier develops the game in hopes that they someday develop the part of the game I want to play, but yeah I'm one of the players Malakie talked about when he said people were disgruntled and leaving the game. And to be honest Frontier's silence on the core neglect and their secrecy about the roadmap and future of the game is not helping. Malakie wants them to speak up, and I do to, but I truly do not expect to hear anything from them. They don't post in these kinds of threads. Unlike Malakie, I've given up hoping, the silence and neglect has gone on too long now.
I'm not leaving the game totally though, I do love the franchise afterall. After 2.3 releases I'll check out the Dolphin, create a commander for myself, try out being a crew on someone else's ship, and maybe check out a few mega ships. But after a few days of that I'll be left with a multicrew that is combat only so not for me, and exploration which has still not been improved one bit. A galaxy still empty of game mechanics for explorers. And I'll put Elite away again, a potential paying customer just waiting in the wings for content that may never come, yet was alluded to three years ago. That right there is IMHO what's causing the bitterness that so many are feeling towards Elite Dangerous right now: a feeling of being misled and decieved. The No Man's Sky phenomenon on a slower and more drawn out scale.
At the risk of seeming like I'm splitting hairs, I don't think it's the actual content that's the problem (as you say yourself with reference to Witcher 3) but the way it's presented to the player.
To be blunt, FDev could implement 50 new kinds of gameplay but as long as they're all presented in the same bland, impersonal, abstract fashion, nobody's going to care and everybody's going to simply keep on doing whatever gains them the most credits/rank/rep and carry on moaning that there isn't enough gameplay.
Personally, I think ED already HAS the basis for an ocean of interesting gameplay.
It's just not presented in a way that makes it interesting or involving.
It's not the game you want and you have explained what you would like to be improved. You also believe that a significant number of other players agree with you and care enough about it to stop playing the game. I think if the changes you suggest were made, could be made, it would be a very different game. Possibly a game that was not quite in the spirit of the elite tradition. I agree with you that the game certainly could be less boring, grindy but i also think that is sometimes about the players philosophy and game style. For me the improvements you suggest would be a delicate balance between maintaining the vast emptiness of our galaxy and making the mission/story richer, more personal and immersive. However I do enjoy the game as it is. I don't feel like quitting and i trust FD to continue to work on this but I respect that what they value is more around realism, flight mechanics, sound quality, graphics etc. Great post, by the way. Rep to you.
dynamicbob
Banned
the devs have their roadmap with art assets and graphical perfect driving sales. mechanics are way down the list unless what hte playerbase is doing changes
Same here.
It is about WHAT TO PLAY, not HOW TO PLAY
The only expansion in Season 2 is the first 2 updates. They added planet landing and collecting and crafting.
Then 2.2, 2.3 only add things on how to combat/exploring.
1. SLF changes how to combat
2. neutron star/white dwarf changes how to travel
3. multi-crew added how to combat...again...and the gunner role looks boring to me.
I once thought there would be some gameplay around the installation added in 2.2.
But nope, for whatever reason they just exist there.
Most importantly, FDev is asking if these new installation is fun. How the hell you think empty installation will be fun?
I am very disappointed to 2.3 and the plan they told us in the Q&A from PAX East
It is about WHAT TO PLAY, not HOW TO PLAY
The only expansion in Season 2 is the first 2 updates. They added planet landing and collecting and crafting.
Then 2.2, 2.3 only add things on how to combat/exploring.
1. SLF changes how to combat
2. neutron star/white dwarf changes how to travel
3. multi-crew added how to combat...again...and the gunner role looks boring to me.
I once thought there would be some gameplay around the installation added in 2.2.
But nope, for whatever reason they just exist there.
Most importantly, FDev is asking if these new installation is fun. How the hell you think empty installation will be fun?
I am very disappointed to 2.3 and the plan they told us in the Q&A from PAX East
Might be a thin limb you're standing on. I never said anything about end game either. Adding a progressive mission that becomes exceedingly more difficult or even something like a single player campaign mode would satisfy the existing players who do have a craving for it (what ever that numbers is). Also I think it has the potential to attract new players who might otherwise not be interested in ED in its current state.
I do have a feeling that if something like that was introduced, its one of the first things you would go try out. Unless are too busy doing the same repetitive thing over and over. In which case continue doing so, nobody is forcing you to do this. Either way, I cant see how adding said content would do anything but improve the game.
I FOR ONE, would like to SEE less of the WILLIAM SHATNER, style, of WRITING.
Game needs some fleshing out, still love it.
My 'soda' can equivalent point is that ED is currently like a new shopping 'mall' on opening day. There may be a few empty units, come back later if you'd like to see more of the same, don't beat your bloody fists on an empty window.
Game needs some fleshing out, still love it.
My 'soda' can equivalent point is that ED is currently like a new shopping 'mall' on opening day. There may be a few empty units, come back later if you'd like to see more of the same, don't beat your bloody fists on an empty window.
I've read some things I can agree on. I'll just quote it here:
I agree very much with those two. I am not a player of the original elite games and it took me some time to accept this game as it is. I think it is becouse it is made so well that many, like you and me, want the game to be the best game of games ever made. But in fact it is just a well made space game called Elite.
I think a good deal of imagination is very necessary to enjoy the game on a longer term.
I also think there is some truth here. Elite could be presented more "into the face". I mean just look how the game-lore is presented to us: by tiny text window of tourist-beacons. Wow! It's not really super-amazing. When we reach a new rank we get this littel firework presented in the upper left corner. Gosh. Underwhelming. The only reward this game acutally gives is new ships. Anyting else? Imagine it.. is left to imagination. I can deal with that. For me Elite gives enough to play with to keep me interested and to stimulate my fantasy. But sometimes I also agree .. it get's boring and dull. I can't deny this - but I fully understand that development can't be rushed with a game designed in such a broad way.
EDIT: also there was this amazing post a time back describig the typical stages of an Elite Player. Must see:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-has-been-out-for-a-bit-Where-s-everybody-now
I agree very much with those two. I am not a player of the original elite games and it took me some time to accept this game as it is. I think it is becouse it is made so well that many, like you and me, want the game to be the best game of games ever made. But in fact it is just a well made space game called Elite.
I think a good deal of imagination is very necessary to enjoy the game on a longer term.
I also think there is some truth here. Elite could be presented more "into the face". I mean just look how the game-lore is presented to us: by tiny text window of tourist-beacons. Wow! It's not really super-amazing. When we reach a new rank we get this littel firework presented in the upper left corner. Gosh. Underwhelming. The only reward this game acutally gives is new ships. Anyting else? Imagine it.. is left to imagination. I can deal with that. For me Elite gives enough to play with to keep me interested and to stimulate my fantasy. But sometimes I also agree .. it get's boring and dull. I can't deny this - but I fully understand that development can't be rushed with a game designed in such a broad way.
EDIT: also there was this amazing post a time back describig the typical stages of an Elite Player. Must see:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-has-been-out-for-a-bit-Where-s-everybody-now
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