People threatening to quit the game

[Agony_Aunt]

what's a zot?

and should I be worried that I don't have any, that i'm aware of?

Ah, its something a Neverwinter Nights 2 dev came up with to simply explain why some things take longer than others in development or some things get benched. Its kind of a combination of money, manpower, and all other factors that contribute to how much you can get done in a certain amount of time.

In theory, you can apply it to any sort of project.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Basically, we need meaningful ways to invest the cash we grind for.

If you didn't grind for credits, you will still have lots of things to invest in.

This is always the way with these sorts of games. People grind like idiots to get everything, then when they have everything they complain to the devs there is nothing left for them to spend their cash on.

Developing for players who have everything is a road to nowhere. All you do is extend things to the next level, which some people will then grind to get that content, and bingo, you are back to square one. With the same people complaining there is nothing for them to spend stuff on.

Or, you add frustrating mechanics which require people to shell out credits all the time (money sinks), which infruriate those who don't grind as they have to run to keep in the spot.

 

[SeeZaa]

I understand the feeling, when you've spent 2000hrs learning a mechanic or building a ship and Fdev go and arbitrarily change the way it all works.

yep, because arbitrarily changing things, is how you do develop a game.. do you think they use dice, i ching or tarot, to make these arbitrary calls? or does Sandy just wake up in the middle of the night after dreaming some random idea and say to himself..

...Zzz... yeah, lets just stop what we are doing in our development cycle, change those systems over there, into this system in my head, and then like just go crazy, oh, and call Billy Connolly.. he'd be great for some vo work, and i do love tartan, it will be great! what do you think space loach? loach?? ...Zzz...

having to make changes to what are specifically tabled stages, within a lengthy project, are most often due to necessity, not on a whim. it will have a very specific reasons, and the resulting change will be to accommodate, moderate or improve on the problem as they see it. there are so many logical, rational, common sense reasons for them doing something. to call these things arbitrary because you disagree with them, or because you don't really understand their necessity, is kinda lame, and very funny

not quite as funny as the person, who after playing 2000+ hours of this game, decides the game is not for them. that there is some serious sadomasochism, and if S&M is a persons thing, those 2000+ hours, at the price of this game, has to be so much cheaper than buying gear and paying for services for, you know.. stuff!?

 

[Soopyyy]

If you didn't grind for credits, you will still have lots of things to invest in.

This is always the way with these sorts of games. People grind like idiots to get everything, then when they have everything they complain to the devs there is nothing left for them to spend their cash on.

Developing for players who have everything is a road to nowhere. All you do is extend things to the next level, which some people will then grind to get that content, and bingo, you are back to square one. With the same people complaining there is nothing for them to spend stuff on.

Or, you add frustrating mechanics which require people to shell out credits all the time (money sinks), which infruriate those who don't grind as they have to run to keep in the spot.

Eh, I've pretty much got all of the ships I want and rank with the Federation high enough that I have nothing more to unlock. So I can only really do a few mission each day and clock up an extra few million credits. There's not really any meat on the bones left at this point. So when I say we need a meanigful way to spend the credits, I do sort of mean from an "End game" perspective. It's a problem many open ended games face and something that can make or break a game beyond the very devoted players who are happy to screw around doing nothing in particular.

yep, because arbitrarily changing things, is how you do develop a game.. do you think they use dice, i ching or tarot, to make these arbitrary calls? or does Sandy just wake up in the middle of the night after dreaming some random idea and say to himself..

...Zzz... yeah, lets just stop what we are doing in our development cycle, change those systems over there, into this system in my head, and then like just go crazy, oh, and call Billy Connolly.. he'd be great for some vo work, and i do love tartan, it will be great! what do you think space loach? loach?? ...Zzz...


having to make changes to what are specifically tabled stages, within a lengthy project, are most often due to necessity, not on a whim. it will have a very specific reasons, and the resulting change will be to accommodate, moderate or improve on the problem as they see it. there are so many logical, rational, common sense reasons for them doing something. to call these things arbitrary because you disagree with them, or because you don't really understand their necessity, is kinda lame, and very funny


not quite as funny as the person, who after playing 2000+ hours of this game, decides the game is not for them. that there is some serious sadomasochism, and if S&M is a persons thing, those 2000+ hours, at the price of this game, has to be so much cheaper than buying gear and paying for services for, you know.. stuff!?

Flippant comment was flippant.
Obviously, they're not changing things arbitrarily. However, as someone who has played the game since the original Beta and official launch, there have been a number of changes to core mechanics that have essentially required a complete rework of ships and career approaches. When these approaches have taken in some cases hundreds of hours, it gets a little strenuous, to say the least. That is without taking into account the actually very literally arbitrary choices Fdev made during some rather heated conflicts within Powerplay earlier on, changes and interactions that actually drove a great deal many (most?) of the powerplay participants away. It's a compartive ghost town within the different communities when you look at what it was like 12-18months ago.

 

[SeeZaa]

Nope again. People are leaving this game in about 50-80 hours play time when they realize that the game can offer them nothing in long term of gameplay, that’s why I said: this game is not designed to be played but to be sold

where are you getting your stats from.. and if it is from 4 or 5 people you know, then how is that even relevant to the overall game?

 

[Mikey2305]

I find it quite entertaining to have wielded the ignore button and then try to follow threads such as this and work out what they are about and what people are actually saying. Quite random and a bit surreal but certainly much more bearable

 

[Vasea Azure]

Such a original topic...

 

[SeeZaa]

Eh, I've pretty much got all of the ships I want and rank with the Federation high enough that I have nothing more to unlock. So I can only really do a few mission each day and clock up an extra few million credits. There's not really any meat on the bones left at this point. So when I say we need a meanigful way to spend the credits, I do sort of mean from an "End game" perspective. It's a problem many open ended games face and something that can make or break a game beyond the very devoted players who are happy to screw around doing nothing in particular.

Flippant comment was flippant.
Obviously, they're not changing things arbitrarily. However, as someone who has played the game since the original Beta and official launch, there have been a number of changes to core mechanics that have essentially required a complete rework of ships and career approaches. When these approaches have taken in some cases hundreds of hours, it gets a little strenuous, to say the least. That is without taking into account the actually very literally arbitrary choices Fdev made during some rather heated conflicts within Powerplay earlier on, changes and interactions that actually drove a great deal many (most?) of the powerplay participants away. It's a compartive ghost town within the different communities when you look at what it was like 12-18months ago.

so then, why say they were arbitrarily making changes in the 1st place, if you don't think that is the case? and then later in this reply, go ahead and use the same word to describe their process again? you are a very confusing person/s.

a new proposition, which aims to improve the current, and/or future game system, that goes through the process of a management discussions, evaluations of it importance alongside the current project list, due consideration to ascertain its effect on current/near release systems, cost/time analysis to implement, more meetings, possible changes to be considered.. redo all the previous steps.. then be given the go ahead, or have it tabled to a later date, again, not an arbitrary decision, literal or otherwise.

implementation of a system which has gone through a thorough 'design process' similar to the above, with the express intent of improving the current game, or preparing it for future introductions/inclusions, is again, not an arbitrary decision, literal or otherwise. it is a rational, well reasoned process that leads to a change.. whether you agree with it, like it, or don't.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

People are leaving this game in about 50-80 hours play time when they realize that the game can offer them nothing in long term of gameplay,

Relevant word highlighted.

Sure, for them, this happens. For others, it doesn't happen. The people who play long term are called fans. Those who don't are not fans. Simples. Same with every single game ever. Just don't try and use their enjoyment of the game or lack if it to try and prove a point.

 

[Eymerich]

Relevant word highlighted.

Sure, for them, this happens. For others, it doesn't happen. The people who play long term are called fans. Those who don't are not fans. Simples. Same with every single game ever. Just don't try and use their enjoyment of the game or lack if it to try and prove a point.

Fact is that people with over 2 K hours leave (like me).

So: or the problem is the people which leave after a few gameplay time (80/90) and game is okay; or the problem is in the game since that are leaving players with over 2K hours.

Problem can't Always be the "other" while Elite is (Always) perfect

 

[monogenetic]

This thread has actually made me seriously consider wiping my save and starting fresh. I've gotten bored so much that I just sit on the dock for 15 minutes wondering what the heck to do. I just don't know if I can give up my elite exploration and fed ranks. Or should I self destruct and rebuy myself back to poverty to save the ranks? It's true in my opinion that having too many credits takes a lot away from the game.

 

[SeeZaa]

Fact is that people with over 2 K hours leave (like me).

So: or the problem is the people which leave after a few gameplay time (80/90) and game is okay; or the problem is in the game since that are leaving players with over 2K hours.

Problem can't Always be the "other" while Elite is (Always) perfect

all games lose players..

for those who leave early, maybe they didn't find the game is what they thought it would be, or just like to try different games.

for those that leave after 2000+ hours, they have gotten plenty out of this game, so how is that a negative thing, for either the player or the developer?

nobody is saying E: D is a perfect game, but in my opinion, is a great game.. and getting better! it is good for a developer to listen to what players say, and the forums make up a fairly balanced, if not, very vocal minority, so is a great window on the topics being highlighted, however, we tend to be on the fringe in terms of 'our level' of response to any given thing. Frontier have the ability to use their metrics to view much of that across the entire game, and are able to react to what is needed, rather than what just sounds louder in the forums.

- - - Updated - - -

This thread has actually made me seriously consider wiping my save and starting fresh. I've gotten bored so much that I just sit on the dock for 15 minutes wondering what the heck to do. I just don't know if I can give up my elite exploration and fed ranks. Or should I self destruct and rebuy myself back to poverty to save the ranks? It's true in my opinion that having too many credits takes a lot away from the game.

keeping your ranks would certainly up the difficulty for you in many areas, also provides quicker progression as you will still have your system factions rep to benefit from mission pickups.. i was so unsure about doing a reset, i bought another copy of the game to start fresh.. play that account very different, no direction, often go *that way* on a whim just too see whats there. lol.

 

[Olaf Olafson]

This thread has actually made me seriously consider wiping my save and starting fresh. I've gotten bored so much that I just sit on the dock for 15 minutes wondering what the heck to do. I just don't know if I can give up my elite exploration and fed ranks. Or should I self destruct and rebuy myself back to poverty to save the ranks? It's true in my opinion that having too many credits takes a lot away from the game.

On the one hand: if you delete your savegame and start anew, you have the chance to play the game again. Making money to get a A-rated sidewinder and working yourself up to the next bigger ship to get the next bigger ship. But on the other hand, you have lost the freedom to do what you want. Assuming you are using the engineers, you can beef up every ship you like using engineers. But if you wipe your savegame, the game might be seemingly shallow and grindy. Believe me, I made the mistake myself. My advice: Get away from the game for a bit and think about that!

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

What I find amusing is the number of people that talk about how terrible the game is and how broken it is and how they're quitting the game. Meanwhile they have 2000+ hours in the game and are clearly majorly addicted. It's like watching a heroin addict ing to their dealer that the product sucks and they're going to quit. Yeah, sure you will and I'm going to be the next president.

Take it back OP, else I'll threaten to quit the game...

 

[Mengy]

It seems to me that he headline features of Horizon's were just used as a way to fund qol improvments for players across the board. The idea that Fdev doesn't care about it's players is a joke, mostly perpetuated by the bitter, cynical and dissafected.

True, there have been a lot of generalized QoL improvements across the board since 1.0, but certainly one group of players has gotten the overwhelming majority of new features and mechanics in that same timeframe too. That's the imbalance which is the root cause of the constant negativity that pervades the forums and the community, and keeps threads like this one popping up so often. The sentiment that Frontier doesn't care is a real one, many feel it, but it's mostly only felt by non-combat players. Actions (or lack of them), coupled with no future roadmap to look forward to for development of non-combat stuff, has consequences over time, and yes it's having an impact on player's sentiments, cynicism, and even bitterness. Not everyone feels it of course, there are plenty of perfectly happy Elite players too, but it's not an imaginary sentiment; it's real for actual reasons.

I hope Season 3 will have more balance with respect to which aspects of the game's mechanics are developed instead of just the one, because I really think that it would do a lot to lessen the "quitting" sentiments, and might even bring a lot of the non-combat players back who have already stopped playing.

 

[Mikey2305]

Im not a combat player and have never felt unjustly left out. Im grateful for what the devs choose to include...

 

[Soon(TM)]

Elite is meant to be sold not played. <<That's such as great line from Marcus...

This is spot on, the development, marketing, season passes

It all clearly points towards that.

Make flashy videos with nice graphics, add a lot of fluff that looks nice in the videos but translates to zero new content.

Each new point release in each season so far has had a lot of fluff added to it, power poo, RNGineers, multi pew. All nice things to advertise, but shallow gameplay when it comes to using it.

Might have to add that quote to my Sig!

 

[SeeZaa]

True, there have been a lot of generalized QoL improvements across the board since 1.0, but certainly one group of players has gotten the overwhelming majority of new features and mechanics in that same timeframe too. That's the imbalance which is the root cause of the constant negativity that pervades the forums and the community, and keeps threads like this one popping up so often. The sentiment that Frontier doesn't care is a real one, many feel it, but it's mostly only felt by non-combat players. Actions (or lack of them), coupled with no future roadmap to look forward to for development of non-combat stuff, has consequences over time, and yes it's having an impact on player's sentiments, cynicism, and even bitterness. Not everyone feels it of course, there are plenty of perfectly happy Elite players too, but it's not an imaginary sentiment; it's real for actual reasons.

I hope Season 3 will have more balance with respect to which aspects of the game's mechanics are developed instead of just the one, because I really think that it would do a lot to lessen the "quitting" sentiments, and might even bring a lot of the non-combat players back who have already stopped playing.

i'm not really a combat player either, aside from npc pirates, or collecting bounties for cg's, and there has been plenty improvement to the game for my benefit. most of the qol stuff is pretty beneficial across the board, so i'm unsure what particular things you consider are not catered too?

on any kind of build.. game, commercial, industrial, civil, mechanical, etc.. things need to be done in a sensible order. no surprise then that many things are dependant on many others, which leads to a very strict order of production and implementation. this often means you tend to get ancillary work being done around the current stage, with minor additions or changes that have been worked on while preparing for the next stage.

we also get a fairly steady stream of minor bug fixes, frequent changes to previously implemented content, and they are always looking at ways to optimise things to reduce system workload. as players, we only ever see the end product, and think of things in terms of.. do i like this? is this for me? do i want to use this? it is very easy to forget that the end product, is the very much, just tip of a very large iceberg.

i'm sorry, but those who say frontier don't care, are childish, shallow minded, ignorant of the development process, and clearly have no understanding, or appreciation, of the vast amount of work that has already been poured into the game, and still is. frontier are actively working on things we wont even hear about till next year. let alone further additions.. hidden away in certain diaries.. that have already been discussed, confirmed, and bookmarked for the year after that.

 

[sutex]

This thread has actually made me seriously consider wiping my save and starting fresh. I've gotten bored so much that I just sit on the dock for 15 minutes wondering what the heck to do. I just don't know if I can give up my elite exploration and fed ranks. Or should I self destruct and rebuy myself back to poverty to save the ranks? It's true in my opinion that having too many credits takes a lot away from the game.

I just sit on the dock for 15 minutes wondering what the heck to do


YEP , but in my case its because this stupid game has no means to storage anything you collect off ship.

So Ive been sitting in dock for over 4 months ( AND I'M NOT THROWING STUFF OUT BECAUSE FDEV DIDN'T THINK !! WHEN IMPLEMENTING ENGINEERS )

ED is going nowhere is just a MENU GAME , click click click click your life away.. AND HAVE NOTHING AT ALL TO SHOW FOR IT.. just you and ONE SHIP at a time

You have no impact on the world your in.. THEY SAY YOU DO , but its crap !!


When I play ARK and click , I can see what Ive built , whats in storage boxes , as its a GAME !!!

 

[StarfireIX]

I haen't been keeping up with the beta, so I'm not sure in what way the missions are being altered. How is it scaring people away?

Massacre missions and planetary scan missions have a limit of 3 missions, instead of 20. Chain missions now have a spawn chance of 30%, rather than 100% (so technically chain missions are considered rare). And there is word they are adjusting the payouts of missions, which everyone is already assuming its going to be a nerf. Shield booster stacking is another nerf that is scaring people, however the nerf was needed to balance the fights between the Cutter and Corvette.