General / Off-Topic Nigel Farage says EU gangsters owe the UK billions

[Adept]

It's not too far regarding the actual process, Article 50 isn't irrevocable. Plenty of remainers are hoping that when the reality of the situation is revealed over the next couple of years (and more of the older brexit voters die along with more younger remain voters reaching 18 years old) that the UK will pull out of leaving.

I don't think the rest of the EU will undersign going back to exactly how things were. This nonsense has caused a lot of grief and damage, and there will be consequences. The special snowflake status of the UK will be gone, I expect.

 

[FuzzySpider]

I don't think the rest of the EU will undersign going back to exactly how things were. This nonsense has caused a lot of grief and damage, and there will be consequences. The special snowflake status of the UK will be gone, I expect.

I hope so. Adopting schengen and the Euro should be a minimum.

 

[Nerwan]

I don't think the rest of the EU will undersign going back to exactly how things were. This nonsense has caused a lot of grief and damage, and there will be consequences. The special snowflake status of the UK will be gone, I expect.

I'm not actually sure if they'd have a choice. If the UK wanted to rejoin the EU after leaving they'd definitely have a choice, but right now it's unclear legally if the UK can simply cancel article 50 at any time within the next 2 years. My understanding is that lawyers are split on the issue but currently there's a strong chance that the UK can cancel their leaving at any time leaving things as the status quo at the moment. I'd personally really love it if that happened and this insanity could end.

 

[beelbeebub]

I'm not actually sure if they'd have a choice. If the UK wanted to rejoin the EU after leaving they'd definitely have a choice, but right now it's unclear legally if the UK can simply cancel article 50 at any time within the next 2 years. My understanding is that lawyers are split on the issue but currently there's a strong chance that the UK can cancel their leaving at any time leaving things as the status quo at the moment. I'd personally really love it if that happened and this insanity could end.

My guess is that if the UK were to turn round and say "takie backies" for leaving AND the other 27 agreed, it could be taken back.

However, if any one decides "No", then there might be a problem.

Ultimately, it might go the ECJ to decide (I.e. The complaining state would go to the ECJ).which may decide in favour of the UK or against so it would be a lot more uncertain.

What would be interesting would be if the UK decided to reverse and the 27 agreed, and then a hard brexit group launched an ECJ action to get the UK thrown out! Hard Beexiteers goin to the ECH to overule the UK government and maybe even the "will of the people" and otheuropean countries.......

Wouldn't put it past them.....

 

[MarktJones]

I don't think the rest of the EU will undersign going back to exactly how things were. This nonsense has caused a lot of grief and damage, and there will be consequences. The special snowflake status of the UK will be gone, I expect.

Well they'll probably be a small political price to pay and people might be a bit cross but I doubt there'd be much fall out. Plenty of jokes!

 

[Sunleader]

You really need to re-think the above drivel.

Lend and lease. 20% of the British empire handed over to the U.S.A. Up until that lend and lease agreement was signed, the UK just paid U.S, manufactures to build ships, tanks etc. etc. etc.

As too running away and leaving the rest to die? Well words fail me, as we have moderation issues to deal with.

No need to Rethink it at all. I just got affirmed properly that what I said is beyond True and Correct.
UK Buying stuff is not the same as other Nations owing the UK for stuff.
Moreover Lend Lease happened in 1941 after hardly anything of remaining Europe still existed.
Or are you saying that the Government of France and Poland should Pay for the UK providing rudimentary Weapons to Rebels in these Countries ?

And well.
Sorry to ask.
But then how would you describe what happened.

Poland was assured Protection by Britain. I dont think we even need to talk about what they got.
France was assured Support by Britain. But when Germany went through Netherlands and Belgium and France Troops on the Border were overrun. Britain retreated.
Norway was threatened by Britain to let them access their Country to provide a stepping stone for Attacking Germany. And thanks to that got Conquered by Germany in order to Deny that to Britain.

I dont know what you learned.
But if you ask me what Britain did was pretty much abandoning Europe and Bunkering Down.
Nothing wrong with that by the way. They had to take care of their own Protection. But they dont get to claim that they Protected Europe!

Mod hat off.

I think the many, many hundreds of thousands of British war graves in mainland continental Europe stands as a tragic and permanent testament against your ridiculous, ill informed and blinkered point of view.

Let alone all the other allied cemeteries of which are filled with young men who were pretty much still kids.

Not going to comment any further on this as I like many others grew up without Grandfathers because of us "Bunkering down."

Losses WW2 (Military)
Soviets about 10 Million
Germany about 5 Million
China about 3 Million
Japan about 2 Million
UK about 400k.....
Maybe Ask why there is so many British Graves and so little Honoring of the remaining ones. And you might get an Idea why People feel offended if Britain goes around Proclaiming itself being the Protector of Freedom and Savior from the s.
As for the last bit.
Then ask yourself if maybe this amount of People growing up without Grandfathers. Might actually be rather small in the UK Compared to other Countries. Because other European Countries lost nearly as much People as you when they partially dont even have Half the Population.
Its not intended to be Offensive to you. But maybe get a hint why People will feel Offended if someone tells em they Owe the UK Tons of Money for Protecting them and Freeing them from the s.
Especially around the Eastern portion of Europe which not only got abandoned by the UK in the earlier Stages of War.
But afterwards fell to the Soviets.
I dont think I need to explain why Germany would not thank Britain for Freeing them. And whatever Germany owed the UK was long taken by force.

You are aware that Hungary joined the Axis in 1940?

This was a Size Comparisson of Conflict Participation. It was not related to the Sides.

I said i wasn't going to write anymore in this thread but my blood is boiling right now, must be the worst disgraceful comment ive seen in a long time on these forums.

I get you hate the UK(god knows what it is we have done, that makes you write complete and utter drivel) but hey, thats your right of free speech, but to say the many British lifes lost in helping to regain Europe's freedom(along with our fantastic Allies help) was of no consequence is utterly shameful, and the fact shows you have no real idea of the history of WW2.

You can have your Blood Boil.
So does mine whenever this rubbish comes up.
Because the UK Claiming to be the Savior of Europe is a Disgrace if anything is.

And no. I dont Hate the UK. In opposite actually. I like the UK. (its still the 4th most liked Country on my List after my Own Country, Japan and France.) I do however Hate the Remnants of the British Empire which cant accept that their Country aint the Big Glorious Superpower which saved the Day and which on a regular base come around with claiming that Europe would somehow be in Debt to the UK for Saving them.

And dont get this one wrong.
Of course you Participated in Winning that War. But compared to other Contributors you are an very small Light in this. One which does not get to Claim that they Freed Europe or that Europe would Owe them Tons of Money for Defeating the s.
Because while you held your Own in that War. The ones actually Defeating the s were the Soviets. As sad as that is.
And the ones Rebuilding Europe and allowing for Freedom in Europe after that was the USA. Not the UK.

If you really think that what I said is a Disgrace. Then I would dare giving you a Challenge.
Head over to Poland. And there Proclaim how Britain Defeated the s and Protected the Polish Freedom.

I would take some ointments along tough. It hurts when your hit by Eggs and other Stuff while your being Chased out of the City.


Final Point being Simple.
The European Nations owe the UK nothing. And much less Money for Protection from the s. This ridiculous claim is typical for Brexiteers but its ridiculous and rubbish.
The UK was Part of this War. And it Protected itself in that War.
It contributed to the Victory in that War as well. Albeit on a Minor scale.
BUT
It did not Safe Europe from the s. And it did not Protect the European Nations from the s either.

It has no Right to claim that it Saved Europe from the s.
Nor does it have any claims on Money from that Time.

No Offense to your National Pride.
But maybe think about how others think about this.
Unfortunately. Unlike what you seem to think.
The Area of Nations which have a Good Opinion of Britain in WW2 is very Limited to Belgium, Netherlands and France. Which while not successful and not on a Scale which would have been required. Did at least get Help from the UK. And which were afterwards actually Freed by Allied Troops which at least a Part of was also British Troops.
For the remaining parts of Europe. I would be careful to mention such claims in Striking Range of the People which would like to tell you straight on this!

 

[CMDR Heisenberg B. Damned]

Well I'm sure international hatred wasn't what Nigel Farrage wanted most, oh hang on no now I think about it that's exactly what he wanted. See how one bitter little man of such flagrant contradictions can drive normal folk against each other with the empty rhetoric of patriotism.

This guy's a descendent of immigrants, married to a foreign national, multi millionaire, ex city banker, dines with celebrities and presidents. He's passing himself as the hero of the common man and blaming everything conceivable on Johnny foreigner.

Everyone should be proud their nation, and we should all recognise the sacrifice laid down by those who fought to keep our current freedoms, that includes people from all countries and that WILL 100% include people from the country that ended up with a despot in charge leading to war in the first place. Hell the way things are going that might be the UK next. If anything the bravery of those that stand up to the tyrant in their own country is right up there at the very top, we'd do well not to forget that.

We're doing nothing to honour all their efforts here by screaming internet rage, no matter how enraging another's comments may seem to anyone else.

If we carry on like this Nigel and his hate filled ilk have won.

 

[Adept]

I'm not actually sure if they'd have a choice. If the UK wanted to rejoin the EU after leaving they'd definitely have a choice, but right now it's unclear legally if the UK can simply cancel article 50 at any time within the next 2 years. My understanding is that lawyers are split on the issue but currently there's a strong chance that the UK can cancel their leaving at any time leaving things as the status quo at the moment. I'd personally really love it if that happened and this insanity could end.

IMO that would be bad, because it would mean anybody can throw a tantrum, declare article 50, and then walk it back later. It would be really detrimental to the EU.

 

[Minonian]

There's a strong chance that the UK can cancel their leaving at any time leaving things as the status quo at the moment. I'd personally really love it if that happened and this insanity could end.

I think it's mostly about their willingness to do it, and EU desire to keep UK in the fold. If they want UK to stay, they will find the way. If they want em out? Than they can make it impossible to withdraw the process.

 

[Minti2]

If you really think that what I said is a Disgrace. Then I would dare giving you a Challenge.
Head over to Poland. And there Proclaim how Britain Defeated the s and Protected the Polish Freedom.

I would take some ointments along tough. It hurts when your hit by Eggs and other Stuff while your being Chased out of the City.

Haha this really made me laugh! am half Polish! i have family still there, but am born and bred Scottish(British foremost) Dads father came over from Poland after WW2 after being driven out first by the Germans then the Soviets, married a Scots women and the rest is history, ive researched my family tree to on both sides.

You seem to have forgotten how Britain used(and badly needed) pilots and free Polish forces to contribute to the war effort. I use to work in a factory with many Poles who came over to work here in the last twenty years, and never heard of resentment of the British contribution in freeing Europe during WW2.

Now if you mention the Soviets thats a different matter(Ive been to Warsaw, beautiful city, but if you know your WW2 history i dont need to say more in regards to what the Russians did letting the Germans finish the resistance off there(having said that, without the Russians it would have been harder if not impossible to defeat Hitler.

I could go through point by point on the other stuff but this is going off topic and i dont want T.J altering my name anymore!!

Your so wrong in so many ways...oh and PS i never said anyone owes the UK anything from WW2 money or gratitude(however Dutch really love us for the liberation! ive lived in Germany and Holland to)

 

[popuptoaster]

Farage talks and generally avoids doing anything useful, preferring to aggravate people instead.

 

[Sunleader]

Haha this really made me laugh! am half Polish! i have family still there, but am born and bred Scottish(British foremost) Dads father came over from Poland after WW2 after being driven out first by the Germans then the Soviets, married a Scots women and the rest is history, ive researched my family tree to on both sides.

You seem to have forgotten how Britain used(and badly needed) pilots and free Polish forces to contribute to the war effort. I use to work in a factory with many Poles who came over to work here in the last twenty years, and never heard of resentment of the British contribution in freeing Europe during WW2.

Now if you mention the Soviets thats a different matter(Ive been to Warsaw, beautiful city, but if you know your WW2 history i dont need to say more in regards to what the Russians did letting the Germans finish the resistance off there(having said that, without the Russians it would have been harder if not impossible to defeat Hitler.

I could go through point by point on the other stuff but this is going off topic and i dont want T.J altering my name anymore!!

Your so wrong in so many ways...oh and PS i never said anyone owes the UK anything from WW2 money or gratitude(however Dutch really love us for the liberation! ive lived in Germany and Holland to)

I am not saying you said it.
But thats why I got my Blood Boiling and what my Post was about. I did quote that other guy for a Reason there after all.

For Fairness said I am also not 100% fair there either and I did overstate alot as well. So dont take it by the word. (Albeit pls make a Difference between Polish Refugees which escaped and the Poles which lost their Grandparents Fighting Hitler believing that the UK would come to their Aid and which then First ended up under German and later under Soviet Rule...)

But keep in mind I was also really ****** at that moment. Because this "Europe Owes the UK so much for saving them" rubbish comes up over and over.

Well. If nothing else I agree we should let this Rest.
This would never end anyways. Much less in a good way.


Albeit I would be Interested why T.J would alter your name over it *gg*
It is albeit Indirectly part of the Topic. After all the thing I complained about was the Claim that Europe Owed the UK money not the other way around.
And well this is Off Topic area anyways.


Ok ok
stop. Bad Sunleader <--- hits himself
yeah I know I need to learn to not let things get to me so much either... But... nope nope Stop it <--- hits himself again.

You get what I am saying.
Greetz Sun

 

[Gortron]

I would ask to know a Source for that.
No Offense. But I never heard of any Agreements where Countries lend something from the UK to Finance or Fight WW2
Which is not Surprising because the UK had no Equipment to Spare and abandoned all their Continental Allies in WW2 leaving them to the Germans.

So if such a Debt exists. Its entirely Normal they are not Paid. Because the UK did not actually Protect them but Withdrew to their Island and Bunkered up leaving them to Die.
Dont demand Payment for a Job someone else did.


To begin with this makes me as sick as Usual.
UK Playing the Savior of Freedom what a Joke.
You guys had less Participation in WW2 than Hungary for Heavens sake....
Goddamn it most of your Participation was not even you yourself but your Colonies.....


Stop Playing the Freedom Fighter.
You Saved no one. You Won nothing and you also did not Free anything.
You abandoned your allies on the Continent and Germany gobbled them up.
Your Conspiracies resulted in 2 more European Countries being Attacked by Germany as Germany had to fear them being used as British Bases otherwise.
All you did was sit on your island and fighting for your own lifes.

Utter rubbish as usual. An excerpt of the speech French President Sarkozy made when he addressed the U.K. Parliament.

"Our two countries' destinies have been closely intertwined for nearly 1,000 years.

"Since William the Conqueror set off from Normandy to seize hold of the throne of Edward the Confessor, to the reverse journey made by hundreds of thousands of young Britons to participate in the liberation of Europe, our destinies have constantly intersected.

"Our nations fought one another for a long time, until the day they understood that what brought them together was more important than what divided them, that they had interests to defend and, even more important still, common values to defend together."

He added: "France hasn't forgotten, she will never forget that when she was almost annihilated Britain was at her side.

"She will never forget the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish blood mixed with the French blood in the mud of the trenches.

"She will never forget the welcome the British people gave General de Gaulle and Free France. She will never forget the heroic resistance of the British people without which all would have been lost.

"She will never forget the fine young people who came from all over the British Empire and laid down their lives on the Normandy beaches.

 

[Arry]

No need to Rethink it at all. I just got affirmed properly that what I said is beyond True and Correct.
UK Buying stuff is not the same as other Nations owing the UK for stuff.
Moreover Lend Lease happened in 1941 after hardly anything of remaining Europe still existed.
Or are you saying that the Government of France and Poland should Pay for the UK providing rudimentary Weapons to Rebels in these Countries ?

And well.
Sorry to ask.
But then how would you describe what happened.

Poland was assured Protection by Britain. I dont think we even need to talk about what they got.
France was assured Support by Britain. But when Germany went through Netherlands and Belgium and France Troops on the Border were overrun. Britain retreated.
Norway was threatened by Britain to let them access their Country to provide a stepping stone for Attacking Germany. And thanks to that got Conquered by Germany in order to Deny that to Britain.

I dont know what you learned.
But if you ask me what Britain did was pretty much abandoning Europe and Bunkering Down.
Nothing wrong with that by the way. They had to take care of their own Protection. But they dont get to claim that they Protected Europe!



Losses WW2 (Military)
Soviets about 10 Million
Germany about 5 Million
China about 3 Million
Japan about 2 Million
UK about 400k.....
Maybe Ask why there is so many British Graves and so little Honoring of the remaining ones. And you might get an Idea why People feel offended if Britain goes around Proclaiming itself being the Protector of Freedom and Savior from the s.
As for the last bit.
Then ask yourself if maybe this amount of People growing up without Grandfathers. Might actually be rather small in the UK Compared to other Countries. Because other European Countries lost nearly as much People as you when they partially dont even have Half the Population.
Its not intended to be Offensive to you. But maybe get a hint why People will feel Offended if someone tells em they Owe the UK Tons of Money for Protecting them and Freeing them from the s.
Especially around the Eastern portion of Europe which not only got abandoned by the UK in the earlier Stages of War.
But afterwards fell to the Soviets.
I dont think I need to explain why Germany would not thank Britain for Freeing them. And whatever Germany owed the UK was long taken by force.



This was a Size Comparisson of Conflict Participation. It was not related to the Sides.



You can have your Blood Boil.
So does mine whenever this rubbish comes up.
Because the UK Claiming to be the Savior of Europe is a Disgrace if anything is.

And no. I dont Hate the UK. In opposite actually. I like the UK. (its still the 4th most liked Country on my List after my Own Country, Japan and France.) I do however Hate the Remnants of the British Empire which cant accept that their Country aint the Big Glorious Superpower which saved the Day and which on a regular base come around with claiming that Europe would somehow be in Debt to the UK for Saving them.

And dont get this one wrong.
Of course you Participated in Winning that War. But compared to other Contributors you are an very small Light in this. One which does not get to Claim that they Freed Europe or that Europe would Owe them Tons of Money for Defeating the s.
Because while you held your Own in that War. The ones actually Defeating the s were the Soviets. As sad as that is.
And the ones Rebuilding Europe and allowing for Freedom in Europe after that was the USA. Not the UK.

If you really think that what I said is a Disgrace. Then I would dare giving you a Challenge.
Head over to Poland. And there Proclaim how Britain Defeated the s and Protected the Polish Freedom.

I would take some ointments along tough. It hurts when your hit by Eggs and other Stuff while your being Chased out of the City.


Final Point being Simple.
The European Nations owe the UK nothing. And much less Money for Protection from the s. This ridiculous claim is typical for Brexiteers but its ridiculous and rubbish.
The UK was Part of this War. And it Protected itself in that War.
It contributed to the Victory in that War as well. Albeit on a Minor scale.
BUT
It did not Safe Europe from the s. And it did not Protect the European Nations from the s either.

It has no Right to claim that it Saved Europe from the s.
Nor does it have any claims on Money from that Time.

No Offense to your National Pride.
But maybe think about how others think about this.
Unfortunately. Unlike what you seem to think.
The Area of Nations which have a Good Opinion of Britain in WW2 is very Limited to Belgium, Netherlands and France. Which while not successful and not on a Scale which would have been required. Did at least get Help from the UK. And which were afterwards actually Freed by Allied Troops which at least a Part of was also British Troops.
For the remaining parts of Europe. I would be careful to mention such claims in Striking Range of the People which would like to tell you straight on this!

This is the last time I have to read your trolling uninformed and self-opinionated nonsense, because you are receiving the honour of being the 2nd member here to be added to my block list in well over two years.

 

[Gortron]

Haha this really made me laugh! am half Polish! i have family still there, but am born and bred Scottish(British foremost) Dads father came over from Poland after WW2 after being driven out first by the Germans then the Soviets, married a Scots women and the rest is history, ive researched my family tree to on both sides.

You seem to have forgotten how Britain used(and badly needed) pilots and free Polish forces to contribute to the war effort. I use to work in a factory with many Poles who came over to work here in the last twenty years, and never heard of resentment of the British contribution in freeing Europe during WW2.

Now if you mention the Soviets thats a different matter(Ive been to Warsaw, beautiful city, but if you know your WW2 history i dont need to say more in regards to what the Russians did letting the Germans finish the resistance off there(having said that, without the Russians it would have been harder if not impossible to defeat Hitler.

I could go through point by point on the other stuff but this is going off topic and i dont want T.J altering my name anymore!!

Your so wrong in so many ways...oh and PS i never said anyone owes the UK anything from WW2 money or gratitude(however Dutch really love us for the liberation! ive lived in Germany and Holland to)

My step grandfather is Polish. He was displaced by the Soviets after the war. I can't remember all the details but he went from country to country and was rejected until he arrived at and was taken in by the UK. He loves this country a lot.

 

[Minti2]

My step grandfather is Polish. He was displaced by the Soviets after the war. I can't remember all the details but he went from country to country and was rejected until he arrived at and was taken in by the UK. He loves this country a lot.

Yeah my Grandfather was the same, we have some family in the states to after fleeing, having gone through Family records we found we where a well off family with Estates back in Poland at one time, but all taken under the Communist state( ah well i love my bought council house

 

[Gortron]

The problem is that there are no actual facts to compare.

Opinions are one thing as are doom-mongering prophesies. Outrageously optimistic predictions are another. Until things come to pass literally noone can say whether these things are wrong or right or (more likely in most cases) somewhere in the middle. But there simply can't be verifiable facts for a Pro-Brexit position because it's purely aspirational and the future is widely variable depending on how things pan out for the UK over the next decade.

That is what does my head in about the general tone on the forums. It is mostly the same people saying the same things over and over as if they are facts, demanding anything optimistic be justified and qualified when it cannot possibly be.

I can't quantify why I'm not scared to death about Brexit because other people don't understand I trust our culture and history says it will work. We (as a people) work harder under adverse conditions.

I'm not a racist and I'm not xenophobic. I just think the EU isn't where we belong. I'm pretty sure you get what I mean

 

[Minti2]

That is what does my head in about the general tone on the forums. It is mostly the same people saying the same things over and over as if they are facts, demanding anything optimistic be justified and qualified when it cannot possibly be.

I can't quantify why I'm not scared to death about Brexit because other people don't understand I trust our culture and history says it will work. We (as a people) work harder under adverse conditions.

I'm not a racist and I'm not xenophobic. I just think the EU isn't where we belong. I'm pretty sure you get what I mean

So wanted to rep you for this!(another time mate).... Perfectly worded as to how i feel about Brexit and these threads, hell it may all go wrong but i wont be sitting up all night worrying about it, in fact its Friday night and time for an ale!

 

[xondk]

He has points, but this is the guy that stepped down after winning, he's good at speaking, he's good at getting people rallied around him, and EU definitely needs to improve, but he isn't much better then what he accuses EU himself, when he attacks like he does.

And calling out that "EU" aka its politicians are self serving, really doesn't say much when that goes for generally all politicians, including those in UK.
To the people, if a ruling comes from EU or UK itself, and affects them negatively, well at least as I see it, doesn't make any difference, it is politicians running things the way they like, despite their words.

That said if EU politicians really made some of the demands he claims, that seems to be obvious negotiation tactics? politicians hate agreeing on anything and all want the advantage, and now two now different views have to find agreement? I'm not sure what he expected.

 

[FuzzySpider]

That is what does my head in about the general tone on the forums. It is mostly the same people saying the same things over and over as if they are facts, demanding anything optimistic be justified and qualified when it cannot possibly be.

When facts are there (dropping pound, reduction in immigration, businesses moving operations out of the UK) then they're facts. That they're unpleasant doesn't make them any less accurate.

I can't quantify why I'm not scared to death about Brexit because other people don't understand I trust our culture and history says it will work. We (as a people) work harder under adverse conditions.

The history and culture of the UK? The Island nation which has always acted as a trading hub, moving goods and services across the world throughout history? The nation with colonies all of the world, embassies in every country and experts in diplomacy in every capital city? The Island nation which is now trying to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist in a move which is the complete antithesis to how it has always operated?

We (as a people) have, for the most part, never had to deal with adverse conditions or even moderately difficult conditions. We've had the odd recession and a few million unemployed in the late 80s but other than that... what else?

And what about the history of the UKs entry into the EU?

http://voxeu.org/article/britain-s-eu-membership-new-insight-economic-history
http://uk.blastingnews.com/politics...oined-the-eu-in-the-first-place-00785599.html

I am saying these things as facts because they are facts.