It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

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A lot of these concerns were building before the patch, and are seeming continually ignored even during AMA's and streams - now that the patch is out and nothing was addressed, things are bubbling over.

It would be great if official Community Managers would post more update/responses to community concerns, or simply reassuring the community that things are being looked at - rather than letting things spiral out of control until the volunteer mods have to lock things.

More community communication is far better than silence, isn't that the role of a CM?

Yes, but I don't know if you can expect them (CM) to work 24/7. There was the weekend and the holydays after all. And they DID post during the weekend, while they spend time with their family. I think the server guys spend their time in the office yesterday. On the other hand they shouldn't release an update with known bugs before holidays but that wasn't a decision Zac, Brett or Ed made...
 
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I agree with most of what was in the OP. What is in the game already is what attracted me to ED and is while new things are always nice to have, the issues with the core gameplay and the lack of variety in the procedural generation (all metallic rings are the same, all planets are 'the same' or at least differ in predictable ways, all NPCs are the same, all markets are 'the same') are underwhelming. Things like capital ships and surface bases seem great initially, but rapidly feel empty. I do love ED, but I'd love to see 2.4 as a relaunch of much of the current gameplay rather than something 'new'.
 
Registered to say +1 OP

+1 OP!
Thanks to the moderators for re-opening this thread! I specifically registered here for this (I've been mainly using r/elitedangerous to fix my need for updates and posts)...

I just wanted to say that the OP is well versed and really hitting the nail on the head IMO - I've supported this game in beta status (but not since the kickstarter) and haven't been playing much for a year, but I picked up Horizons a couple of months ago and thus began the grind. While I've been grinding and engineering I came to very similar conclusions as OP.

to point 2: Powerplay is very bland, but I gotta admit I haven't invested a lot of hours in it yet - it's basically just levelling with a faction like any other.

to point 3: Holo-Me is nice and all, but either I didn't use it to it's full potential or it is just a couple of templates you mix yours together, nothing extremely fancy or am I missing something? I do like the touch of customizing tho!

to point 4: Multi-Crew is, after the controls have been customized (why can't this just use the controls you already mapped tho? flying == aiming, no?), fun but... very unlucrative and thus making it unapealing for most players (IMO) I think it is fun, flying a fighter is cool! but I would have made at least 4 times the bounty money in my ship tho. (I'm only expter combat rank)

to point 5: Planets and planetary mining are fun, but there isn't much to do tho. at least I don't know what to do... either mining or driving like a maniac, is there anything else to do? besides hoping for aliens?

to point 6: while I agree that a certain amount of customization or individuality should be behind a paywall, it really bugs me that all the nice things cost me extra - I know that nobody needs paintjobs or bobbleheads, but there is nothing to work towards than money and ships. Plus, and that is just my personal opinion, it just feels weird to me that i would have to pay for such simple things after having payed a lot already for the game and the dlc...

to point 8: oh my yes, I'd love to have functions from inara.cz and maybe radio sidewinder embedded into the menus ingame (inlcuding radio sidewinder with news from galnet would be awesome!)

Cheers for this constructive post and the good responses so far! I hope that Frontier will take notice and maybe overthink some things.

o7 - Walt
 
As much as i love this game, but it really can be summed up like this:

- lots of unused potential
- questionable design decisions / priorities to say the least

The technical optimisations being done in 2.3 are astounding, though.
Do you all know what i'd pay big time RL cash for?
To look one year into ED's future.
 
Do you all know what i'd pay big time RL cash for?
To look one year into ED's future.

What a useless expense... :p

I'd much rather pay hard RL cash (to Frontier) for replacing the watch-a-thousand-loading-screens-and-then-some trainwreck (yes I get it, your game space is big...) that is Elite's game design with something consistent, thoroughly designed and deep, that respects player time, rather than mistaking hour clocks for inventory management for balance and immersion or making you point your ship somewhere to RNG-wait for something to happen.

Whatever goes wrong in this company, that leads to the release of a feature asking players to collect some doodads for 8-10 RT hours and then in return RNGineer them a potential module downgrade, it needs a fix badly. Such a design (2.1 vanilla) isn't a matter of "risk vs. reward". It's game design horse poo doing nothing but wasting precious player free time. And it doesn't help a bit that it's being fixed or improved throughout the following year of game updates. So long as that "bug" within Frontier exists, it'll be the same horse poo all over again with each and every update.
 
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Generally agree with you op. It does seem to me like whomever runs the game design doesn't really understand what fun is, and every time there is some new idea, the first thought is:
"What is the most annoying and tedious way to get this done, with no fun at all? Let's do that!"

I mean, honestly... Why do I even need to go to Inara/EDDB - why do I need Ed discovery?nThis stuff should be IN GAME, core parts of the gameplay - implemented and sorted well before CQC, Powerplay etc... Keep in mind, I'm one of those that thinks CQC is actually kinda fun. It's the most well balanced combat there is in the game, and the combat arenas are where CZ's should be taking place...



Hi all, I've reopened the thread. Let's not drift too far away from the threads core subjects. Thanks! :)

Thank you good Sir.

Z...
 
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Keep in mind, I'm one of those that thinks CQC is actually kinda fun. It's the most well balanced combat there is in the game, and the combat arenas are where CZ's should be taking place...

Preach! Structured (as PvE/PvP/mixed missions), Batlefield-like combat scenarios between something akin to actual space ship fleets would be a dream come true. Instead, both CZ and RES are but a pub brawl with arcade spaceships. Feels like something that was put into place under heavy time constraints.

Edit: Being pressed for time is a actually a very valid reason why something does not live up to every wet fan dream. Time constraints can't really excuse that Frontier thought offering potential RNGineer downgrades in return for substantial player time investment was in any shape or form acceptable however. You have to regress to using RNG? Make all outcomes somehow valuable. If you only get anything worthwhile when rolling a "6" on your D6 and the options "1-5" are mildly attractive or trash, you're wasting your player's time. Goes for spawn tables in RES as well. "Ohh, such a believable universe. Today only the Sidewinders and Eagles with a death wish are out", thought no player in a RES ever, while they were re-instantiating the RES, to get anything that's worth their while. Same for the mission board. "Pity there is only a mission worth 12t of cargo and 120k credits available to fill my 400t 12Mio. credits rebuy freighter. Oh well, I'll just take what I can get and spend the next 30 minutes doing this." Thought no space trucker ever as well, while they were either mode hopping to get anything worth their while or not bothering entirely, looking for something more sensible instead.
 
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Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
Here's the thing.

The OP made a well constructed thought out post discussing their concerns about the game.

The discussion has been interesting and for the main constructive in it's criticism, the thread was temp closed then reopened, not because of the OP's. criticism but because some decided to attack other forum members and their opinions.

A well thought out critical post is an extremely valuable resource to the developer in helping to improve the game.

Back biting and name calling etc isn't.

Just goes to show that we don't close critical threads contrary to what some may believe.
 
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I do think that the early beta access system creates problems. It is generally regarded as the new content so by the time the release comes out everyone has played it, got fed up with it, can see its faults in it and is eagerly looking forward to the next big thing.

...................

. I would really welcome an ignore thread option though!

One aspect of F D listening too much and not having the backbone to keep to their guns I feel was the reaction to the Engineers Beta. People whined, cried, threw toys from their prams and just generally created a fuss that all the crazy over-the-top engineering results that showed up in the beta were going to be reverted on release. Result, we have engineering that is way over-powered, unbalancing and completely ubiquitous - if they had stuck to the rarity and offsetting drawbacks to mods that were originally postulated then Engineers could have been an enhancement.


BTW - "Ignore thread" is an option available from the drop-down menu "Thread Tools" you can find in the top right corner.


P.S. Glad to see the balanced (mainly) response to the OP's well-framed points (which I agreed with earlier) and heartened to see so many people actually agree in the main. Hopefully such a well-reasoned thread, with such a strength of support might give some cause for the Braben's consideration.
 
Good luck, I find that voicing an opinion against this game lack of polish only triggers white knights to attack you. The pigeons will come and mess with your words and try to make you the bad guy!

I truly believe if concerns are written in a polite but factual manner, you will get an ear from FDEV. Sometimes it's very difficult to pinpoint what is wrong and why you as most of are, fans of the Elite Universe.

To make this short, in my view FDEV are spreading their resources too much, to cover as much ground as possible, the result are then not as wanted.
It still, to this very day boggles my mind why we need to grind moving around the the galaxy, we simply need better tools to navigate around.

Even in a SIM like IL-2 you can hit autopilot and you can do something else like study the mission target ect. We need better tools to navigate that also includes planetary navigation.

3rd party tools are taking over the game, I spend a lot of time checking 3rd party tools or running apps who interact with the game and gives me the info I need.

Maybe it's time to activate licenses mods, just like we seen in the flight SIM community.
 
While I don´t like some design decisions I am well aware that due to the complexity (and freedom you have) in this game it´s pretty hard for the devs to catch everyones hopes. I also see that there´s a lot of things coming together now, merging perfectly into the early game designs and "the whole picture" that was painted during - and before - Kickstarter.

For an example: Powerplay. While it was great during the beginning for making money, nobody (I think) really felt "connected" to the power he pledged to. Powerplay was just used as a tool for getting new stuff like the prismatic shields. On the other hand - the freedom of this game allows us to do everything without real consequences.

Multicrew: Doesn´t make sense right now, except for mentoring. And the magical extra-pip is a slap in the face of every simulation enthusiast.

But there are also a lot of decisions I simply don´t understand. For example the nerf-discussions prior to 2.3 - there was no need for it, and 2.3 shows that the ressources were clearly wasted in favour of quality. Same goes to 2.2.02. Ruins were found, but the missions could never be completed due to bugs (no idea if they are fixed by now).

Griefing is one of the biggest discussions ever - still NOTHING done yet since release.

These are just examples. There are many many more.

I should say that many things improve with every patch. Menu response times, supercruise exits, jumps - everything has WELL improved with 2.3...

... just to be kicked in da butt by server problems, GalMap-Bugs, BGS-Bugs and so on. And the result? Nobody is talking about the improvements, everyone talks about the bugs. Bugs which were reported in Beta. Bugs which were not fixed during beta and made it into release totally ignored by FD.

From my point of view its 100 % correct to kick FD´s butt when they deliver a bugfest like 2.3 until the delivery process has improved. On the other hand we should live with "bad" design decisions (remember, we are always able NOT to use the "new" features) - they can be a result of ressources/time running away.

FD has 3 main areas where - in my point of view - an improvement is needed:

A: Communication for upcoming patches and a rough schedule (Yes! Have in mind what we pledged for, and what we have paid for!!)
B: Quality (well... 900+ bugs in the 2.3-bugreport-forum...)
C: Release-planning

Just my opinion though.
 
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Maybe it's time to activate licenses mods, just like we seen in the flight SIM community.

What is this?

I've always felt our ships should support some API. So that player-devs can push info directly into a ship panel.

I don't see it as being "out of game" because it's functionality that would in reality exist.

ie If I had my own real-life Cobra and was flitting around the galaxy I'd have written all sorts of extensions ages ago to QoL my spaceman experience.
 
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What is this?

I've always felt our ships should support some API. So that player-devs can push info directly into a ship panel.

I don't see it as being "out of game" because it's functionality that would in reality exist.

ie If I had my own real-life Cobra and was flitting around the galaxy I'd have written all sorts of extensions ages ago to QoL my spaceman experience.

Yes, that is what is needed, the Licenses mods was just to explain how it's done in the flight sim community. You need to get a license from the Developers, so you can sell/offer
add ons to the game.
 
Agree with OP, somewhat reluctantly. I don't agree that this is the fault of any one person though, more of a general oversight or lack of research and development during the early stages of the production process.

I love the game, the universe and the player base but there is so much grind/filler and so many missed opportunities for player engagement, variation and fun content.
 
I dont see why it shouldnt hold for other games. I never played Skyrim wondering why I couldnt visit the twin moons. Or played GTA wondering why I could engineer my cars properly in-game. You can always imagine wanting to do more, and the reason you cant is always because you're playing a computer game for which you paid a relatively small amount of money that is not going to be enough to do offer whatever you want whenever you want. Its just that in space-games, where an increased scope is almost inherently easier to imagine, that people go nuts with expectations. And then go berserk when disappointed. It happened to pretty much every large-scale space-game in recent history. NMS, CoD:IW, DE:MD, ED: they all got very poor to mediocre user review average scores.

if you'd said ten years ago there would be a spacesim, with an excellent flight model, dozens of ships you can outfit and further customize, tens of thousands of local factions you can help and hinder, a huge BGS that you can profiteer from as a trader or smuggler, hundreds of millions of massive 1:1 scale planets you can land on, with amazing backdrops, a galaxy where you can visit thousands upon thousands of real astronomical bodies, all the above with full VR and HOTAS support people would have laughed at you and said you were insane. Now its not good enough. And not even because other games went even further. No, because we simply want more.

Well, boohoo.

Rockstar didnt a) use Kickstarter, b) gave us a DDF/Early Design-document. At the end of the day Frontier SHOWED to us what they are going to do with this game. But hey, you are allowed to ignore that just to post some bull poo.
 
Rockstar didnt a) use Kickstarter, b) gave us a DDF/Early Design-document. At the end of the day Frontier SHOWED to us what they are going to do with this game. But hey, you are allowed to ignore that just to post some bull poo.

Small correction. They showed what they wanted to do, not were going to do. There is a subtle difference there. And while i would like to see more of the DDF in game, and i'm sure we will given time, there are some parts of the DDF i'm quite happy didn't make it into the game and hopefully never will.
 
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