#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

[Taranis Dekker]

Group hug? [squeeeee]

 

[CMDR Beltane]

Pleased with the outcome. Hopefully over time the connection between FD and 3'rd party devs will grow to a healthy level. Imho, if it works out well - we all win. 3'rd party devs because they can provide us the information we want in a good and reliable way. The community because we can obtain that info ('least those that want). And FD because accessible information will make more players stick to the game that might have otherwise stopped playing due to lack of information. If done right, i cannot see any loosers - only winners.

 

[two quiet suns]

Right, thats it, bed with NO dinner and you better have a good long think about the way you behaved today. Your not getting a star on your behaviour chart and if you don't buck your idea's up you are not going to little Drew's party on Sunday. Don't test me! I WILL tell your father!!

 

[Vandaahl]

In the mood?

Got distracted, sry. I knew you would say that btw.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

So I just looked at Inara's recently updated engineers page, Inara's engineering page being the only third party tool mentioned in the OP that I use with any regularity, and could not help but notice that the various upgrades included in 2.3 which have been absent from the page are now updated. My understanding of this whole storm in a teacup that blew in today was over sites such as Inara not being able to readily obtain the relevant information to add to their sites. Correct? So the conclusion I'm drawing right now is that Inara purposefully withheld such data from their site in order to help build the case against Fdev and to help stoke the flames of the mob scene which developed this morning.

If you had kept up with the discussions on Inara, you would know that Artie, the developer, took some extended break from upgrading the site. He just came back earlier this week and already updated a lot of things. So, I don't think there was any conspiracy.

Also, although Inara is nice and all, it takes a lot of its data from eddn.io, which is the pillar of many 3rd party tools. I believe that this was the biggest loss in the debacle...

 

[PIKE99]

I just realised the ED is unplayable without You guys. No CG possible to enter, no ship modifications to be done, FD help or most of the players quit. How is my lifetime expansion looks then? - Get it running or get it seen in the court.

 

[Duane Dibbley]

So I just looked at Inara's recently updated engineers page, Inara's engineering page being the only third party tool mentioned in the OP that I use with any regularity, and could not help but notice that the various upgrades included in 2.3 which have been absent from the page are now updated. My understanding of this whole storm in a teacup that blew in today was over sites such as Inara not being able to readily obtain the relevant information to add to their sites. Correct? So the conclusion I'm drawing right now is that Inara purposefully withheld such data from their site in order to help build the case against Fdev and to help stoke the flames of the mob scene which developed this morning.

Thanks Columbo

 

[jasonbarron]

If you had kept up with the discussions on Inara, you would know that Artie, the developer, took some extended break from upgrading the site. He just came back earlier this week and already updated a lot of things. So, I don't think there was any conspiracy.

Also, although Inara is nice and all, it takes a lot of its data from eddn.io, which is the pillar of many 3rd party tools. I believe that this was the biggest loss in the debacle...

I'm sure. Nice timing though.

Thanks Columbo

You're quite welcome, Duane.

 

[Darth Ender]

So we're suggesting that players should go to external sites to better play the game? That's not the message anyone should be sending to FDev. They should be implementing most if not all of the various functionality that goes into these third party sites into the game as it should have been from the beginning.

I like the idea of them shutting down and they should stay down...until Fdev implements the missing parts of the game in the game ...where this content belongs.

 

[Madrax573]

Well I'm glad FD and the 3rd party guy have gotten together and worked out a course of action to move forward with.

However if this kind of action happens again I for one will be pulling any support for 3rd party devs.


Those guys work bloody hard to bring out some really useful tools but it is a voluntary thing. Having been involved with some tools myself I understand this but what effectively is industrial action is not the way to move forward on these matters.

I hope this doesn't happen again.

 

[IronAnode]

There are some seriously arrogant replies on here. To think that things like EDDN, EDDiscovery, EDSM, EDMC, EDDB, Inara etc are trivial pieces of software to build and would be replaced 'easily' really grinds my gears.

These people give their time and energy for nothing. Nearly all of them do not run any ads at all, none of them to my knowledge ask for any payment.

These things consume vast amounts of time to keep upto date and a serious money commitment for the hardware.

Damn right I support these people today. After watching the last two years of lack of commitment from FD and at times the downright attempts to close down the source of data by FD I'm amazed these people still do what they do.

Some people on here made me real sad today.

Kudos EDCD members and kudos FD for resolving this and hopefully this will lead to a more fruitful relationship and an even more enriched gaming experience for Elite Dangerous.

 

[Sandmann]

After speaking in private with the OP and other involved community developers, we have all agreed that it was best for the community to bring the websites back up as soon possible. This will be happening simultaneously at 19:00 UTC (where possible) for all the sites.

We have made a commitment to work more closely with the third party developer community to address concerns and support these features which the community use and value on a daily basis.

These ongoing communications will include developers from other third party websites who may be interested, not just those listed in the OP. If you are an active and established third party Elite Dangerous developer, get in touch with community@frontier.co.uk

We all hope that clears things up!

Thanks everyone,

Ed

That's a welcome message Ed, but as others have said words are cheap and past experience is less than sweet. We'll withhold our praise and see what happens.

 

[Hooplah]

I am glad to see that the parties involved have met and are moving in a positive direction. I hope the best for the support3rdparty groups and Frontier as the players will certainly benefit. But make no mistake, the support3rdparty groups took actions which many will never forgive or forget. They have lost the confidence and worse the respect of many. No argument in response will ever justify their actions in this regard for those who feel used by these events. I hope that the cost was worth the effort. I suggest a much more positive approach in the future enlisting the aid of the players without taking away site access at a crucial moment in the game's progress and events. Doing it in a more positive manner might have received 99 percent support in this thread. Getting one's way by what many consider very inappropriate means is not the best solution.

 

[nighthawk_black]

Good to see this moving in a positive direction.

3rd party tools have done a lot to enhance my enjoyment of the game and keep me (and my wallet) coming back for more. [up]

 

[Martian Successor]

So I just looked at Inara's recently updated engineers page, Inara's engineering page being the only third party tool mentioned in the OP that I use with any regularity, and could not help but notice that the various upgrades included in 2.3 which have been absent from the page are now updated. My understanding of this whole storm in a teacup that blew in today was over sites such as Inara not being able to readily obtain the relevant information to add to their sites. Correct? So the conclusion I'm drawing right now is that Inara purposefully withheld such data from their site in order to help build the case against Fdev and to help stoke the flames of the mob scene which developed this morning.

Incorrect. Artie - the guy who runs INARA - had already come back from a break and updated the INARA Engineers page with the new recipes a couple of days before this strike action. This is not the conspiracy you're looking for

 

[amadeus1171]

I am glad to see that the parties involved have met and are moving in a positive direction. I hope the best for the support3rdparty groups and Frontier as the players will certainly benefit. But make no mistake, the support3rdparty groups took actions which many will never forgive or forget. They have lost the confidence and worse the respect of many. No argument in response will ever justify their actions in this regard for those who feel used by these events. I hope that the cost was worth the effort. I suggest a much more positive approach in the future enlisting the aid of the players without taking away site access at a crucial moment in the game's progress and events. Doing it in a more positive manner might have received 99 percent support in this thread. Getting one's way by what many consider very inappropriate means is not the best solution.

Can't you see why they had to?

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;_Xetonjc3M8]https://youtu.be/_Xetonjc3M8[/video]

 

[GG7]

Good news, sometimes you just have to shout "HEY" in just the right way to get the right attention and then everything gets dealt with because, in the end, folks are fairly rational once they actually talk to each other.

Good job all the way around. And now the thread will continue on for another 80 pages for people who just want to argue without listening.

Ain't that the truth!

No better way of demonstrating the importance of something than physically taking it away. If they had only suggested this action, then all the Apologists would have rallied around claiming that no one uses these tools anyway, and basically who cares?

I think these developers did the right thing. They got an almost immediate, positive response to their issues and concerns, and with very little downtime for the community.

The only people complaining about the way this was handled are the same ones who would have fluffed off the importance of these tools in the first place. That small percentage of the community is clueless, and will always remain so. I can't squeeze my fingers together tight enough to express how little I care about what they think about any of this.

 

[Mengy]

I am glad to see that the parties involved have met and are moving in a positive direction. I hope the best for the support3rdparty groups and Frontier as the players will certainly benefit. But make no mistake, the support3rdparty groups took actions which many will never forgive or forget. They have lost the confidence and worse the respect of many. No argument in response will ever justify their actions in this regard for those who feel used by these events. I hope that the cost was worth the effort. I suggest a much more positive approach in the future enlisting the aid of the players without taking away site access at a crucial moment in the game's progress and events. Doing it in a more positive manner might have received 99 percent support in this thread. Getting one's way by what many consider very inappropriate means is not the best solution.

I can't believe some of you people who are criticizing the 3rd party supports for simply wanting some respectful communication from Frontier on API changes. Do any of you understand how much work, time, and effort these people have devoted, FOR FREE, to ensure that all of us have access to these invaluable tools? Lost our respect??? You have got to be fracking kidding me.

Thankfully Frontier seems to understand much better than all of you naysayers do, as their quick and positive response on the matter was entirely appropriate. They fully realize just how much value the 3rd parties add to the game and the community, maybe the negative Nancy crowd should take Frontier's lead on this one and simply thank the 3rd party's without the belittling and down-talking.

 

[Steve50]

This thread just goes to show how dependent FDEV is on a 3rd party developer who isn't on their payroll. How long is FDEV going to exploit this free labor before they fix their own game so these outside tools aren't necessary?

This is proof that FDEV has been using these 3rd party devs as a crutch and now it's finally biting them in the behind.

They AREN'T necessary though, I've been playing since Alpha and I never use these "tools/cheats/crutches*" *delete where applicable.
I'm not denying they aren't helpful to some, but necessary? no, not at all.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Alvarez brings you the news that matters. I have just been handed an exclusive - no, not tax returns - an exclusive video of the Third Party Tools Embargo earlier today and the conversation that followed between Third Party members and Frontier Developments. Be warned, the following may contain material unsuitable for children:

Spoiler

[video=youtube;Hgq4w4dqKsU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU[/video]