You might be reading it wrong, it's more like the 3rd party guys just want a heads up or a bit of back and forth before the api is changed.
Just as you'd do internally.
#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.
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You might be reading it wrong, it's more like the 3rd party guys just want a heads up or a bit of back and forth before the api is changed.
Just as you'd do internally.
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I knew it was a conspiracy!
White knights vs black knights we all knew it was only a matter of time .[big grin]
Decided to dip in the other cent of my 2 cents here where it'll likely be buried on page 120 or something.
Yes, the things these tools are great, and I'd love for them to get officially integrated into the main game, they are *that* valuable.
It's totally thanks to the developer of those tools for making them and keeping them going as time goes on. And it's totally their right to do what they want with the tools they make.
However, you could have just asked:
You could have taken the OP of this thread, removed the ultimatum and dropped the idea of shutting down the sites in protest, and ask the public via here and on reddit to step in, take notice, and show support if you like using these tools. Everything else about it could have stayed as-is.
I'm willing to bet you would have garnered a positive Fdev response just as well. No, it might not have been an urgently-immediate-putting-out-fire response, but I doubt it would have taken long with the way the community at large here has shown up to show their support for these tools.
Yes, the things these tools are great, and I'd love for them to get officially integrated into the main game, they are *that* valuable.
It's totally thanks to the developer of those tools for making them and keeping them going as time goes on. And it's totally their right to do what they want with the tools they make.
However, you could have just asked:
You could have taken the OP of this thread, removed the ultimatum and dropped the idea of shutting down the sites in protest, and ask the public via here and on reddit to step in, take notice, and show support if you like using these tools. Everything else about it could have stayed as-is.
I'm willing to bet you would have garnered a positive Fdev response just as well. No, it might not have been an urgently-immediate-putting-out-fire response, but I doubt it would have taken long with the way the community at large here has shown up to show their support for these tools.
Very pleased to see that this was responded to in a timely manner and that Frontier is promising to do a better job of communicating and working with these great third party developers! Kudos to Ed Lewis for taking this as seriously as he needed to and got the ball rolling so quickly.
Like the majority of ED fans... I can't imagine this game without those additional resources to turn to! It would be nice to see many of them included into the actual game at some point in the near future! Having access to the EDDB for example from my Cockpit panel would be awesome!
Good work everyone!
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Like the majority of ED fans... I can't imagine this game without those additional resources to turn to! It would be nice to see many of them included into the actual game at some point in the near future! Having access to the EDDB for example from my Cockpit panel would be awesome!
Good work everyone!
[up]
Oh man, I thought I'd easily won the thread with my wife's 3rd party tool comment but I might have just slipped to second place after this one
Yes but then I wouldn't have found out about them.
Yes. Apart from two things. One, they're not internal and two at what priority level (eg. compared to getting multicrew working or making sure the API dodges exploits if possible) does API porting happen? Am all for the 3rd party sites, they're awesome but do I approve of these tactics? Not sure. A fan site, knowingly setting out to cause damage to the game it's a fan of, is a bit hmmm. Maybe they tried other things but it's the first I'd heard of their disquiet, maybe away from subforum threads if clues exist there.
I'm guessing you never made it outside?Oh man, I thought I'd easily won the thread with my wife's 3rd party tool comment but I might have just slipped to second place after this one
It's well worth reading the history of this case in the OP.
This isn't a case of tail wagging the dog, or being allowed to make changes 'radically if necessary'. It's a documented history of breakage and lack of comms, data that isn't correct (system data not reflecting actual situation for example), or out and out complete loss of API functionality (nothing working for weeks for example).
The whole point of APIs are they represent an exposure (the interface) to the underlying data that can be used and is reliable, it doesn't matter if internally the data changes form, it's the interface to it that can be relied on. The core data in this game isn't going to change radically (ships are ships, have stuff, planets have attributes, position, alignments etc), there's going to be additions and improvements, but what 3PD want is them to be able to say "your api is giving wrong data here" and there be a process whereby it doesn't just get 'passed along' and ultimately ignored, or to have some heads up that there's a new/changed feature in the way a certain bit of information is accessed etc. This is standard application programming stuff.
What can I say? ED has a powerful hold on me. For the moment I'm safe; I left the mower idling and snuck back inside
I didn't, others had though. It was taking the community as a hostage though.
From 9.35 PM
'Legaly it's neither extortion or blackmail. Doesn't mean that they weren't holding players base as hostages. It's not like they ever came to the community asking for help? '
They are a small minority of the community who choose to spend their free time makiing databases, which they will be using as tech demos on their CV, over playing the game. If that's how they want to spend their time then fine, I just find the way they went about making demands petty.
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It's also a political situation [up]
Your post was ignorant. I stand by that. Suggesting to Ed that you'd have gone with the nuclear option instead of calming the waters (as Ed did so very well) is short sighted. Burn the bridge between your most ardent and dedicated fan base/volunteer content and tool creators and you end your game's life. Simple logicIgnorance
Concise, but not complete
I have no direct link to the 3rd party content creators nor access to the history of their private communication channels with Frontier however I have dealt with Frontier's reluctance to communicate and their seemingly forgetful tendencies first hand. So unless you'd like to share proof of your claim for the "but not complete" part I'll stand by what I know personally and by the history the OP presents.
P.S. I wouldn't go casually omiting the "created and funded by dedicated volunteers" part from the 'tools' part, lest it appear as if you intend to make a veiled insult.
To me it seemed an act of desperation. Of people who felt, for whatever reason, that they weren't being heard and who felt they were not being treated as respected memebers of this symbiotic relationship that exists.
You treat them almost as if this were a terrorist act rather than a public show of protest to raise awareness of an obviously long standing issue. That, I cannot understand.
I wasn't aware I was being coerced into supporting the 3rd party tool creators. Did you receive a ransom email from INARA telling you that the mean, bad men and women who run websites are holding your CMDR profile hostage? Because I didn't.
Their actions were not a threat any more than protesters who block a road for a day in order to raise awareness for air pollution. There are other modes of transport and other, albeit more difficult roads to use. You are not being coerced or extorted or black mailed or terrorised. You are being inconvenienced. Big difference. The ultimate purpose being to show you not to take things such as 3rd party tools for granted.
In any case, I, much like this thread, have said what I had to say. If I see this thread still on the top page tomorrow I'm coming back with Ferris Beuler clips - call it extortion and/or digital terrorism if you wish
How dare you Raile, why don't you spare a thought for us 5th party devs? disgusted, its not all about you.
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I get your point, it's the same of many here, but it's obviously ineffective to ask and dialog with the community, while FDev just keeps their usual distance.
Compare it to a hospital, third party are the medics, FDev is the board/conseil that administrate the hospital and we all are the common patients.
These medics provide theirs own gloves, masks, and equipment as such, that everyone think it's the reasonability of the hospital to provide, but they don't and the medic took that reasonability.
Every now and then some patients complain on the suggestion box about that, should the hospital provide it because, aldo the medics do it, often the hospital change their rules on outside material getting into the facilities, tightening security, and then something is not available when needed.
The medics also complain, using the same suggestion box, and sometimes trying to talk to the manager or someone like that, but only silence comes from that.
Eventually the medics grow stick of that silence and take a harder action, an organized strike against the owners of the hospital and stop their service.
Should they consult their patients about that? I don't see why, they have nothing to do about this situation, they can't correct it or take any action, this matter is only concern of medics vs the board and the medics just inform the public about their reasoning behind the strike and asks the public to stay behind then.
What some do? They take the hospital side, selfishly saying the medics are "parasites"? That they are selfishly harming the public with that action without consulting them?
I can't comprehend people mind. It's really not worth doing something by heart and sharing it, you get to much hate. Better leave people to the wolves and let they handle it themselves and see how much better it would be...
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