lololol You should give Sandro a crash courseif you like played your own game that is...
Deliberate Ramming
- Thread starter shadragon
- Start date
How about the karma system does not apply in certain areas, lawless, pirate held areas, combat zones, res sites and doesn't apply to killing a powerplay rival in faction held space.
I dunno, maybe it's not going to be able to please everybody.
Has anyone ever suggested an answer that everyone agrees with?
I dunno, maybe it's not going to be able to please everybody.
Has anyone ever suggested an answer that everyone agrees with?
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Everyones opinion is as valuable as the rest, Sole Hunter.
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Sole Hunter
Banned
Yeah thanks for repeating what I just said, the door is over there captain obvious.
How about we discuss this garbage idea, sounds like a good idea?
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That was just an example. And, Sandro just said removal of insurance, not ships. Most of those guys can afford to rebuy their ship at full price a few times over - especially the cheaper FAS/FDL variants. Plus, this effect would, as Sandro remarked, kick in gradually (presumably as an increased insurance cost) not immediately. They would have to be determined murderhobos to reach 100% ship value in rebuy, one would presume.
Hello Commander Sole Hunter!
Let me be as clear as I can, I think perhaps I am not articulating the concept well enough.
* Our karma system would work by tracking *trends* over time. You would never perform a single action and get dropped down to the lowest rating. It tracks intent by building up a picture over time.
* It would very likely *only* apply to interactions with other players in most cases, so it would not interfere much with the rest of the game.
* Importantly, for combat encounters, it would a) only apply to criminal attacks, b) use as detailed and as comprehensive metrics as possible for determining relative ship powers, taking into account ship hull, load out, engineered upgrades and pilot rating, and only activate when there was a large disparity.
I guess, in response, do you feel it's completely fine for powerful ships to be able to wantonly destroy new players, for example?
Hello Commanders besieger, Jukelo and others!
Regarding the possibility that such measures might act as an incentive: it's an interesting point.
In response I would suggest that if the measures did do that then with the system in place it would be more likely that we could swap in measures that in no way could be seen as good things (such as shadow bans).
There's also the argument that it's not that we necessarily want to prevent Commanders from playing how they want, more that we want appropriate consequences for such actions.
Let me be as clear as I can, I think perhaps I am not articulating the concept well enough.
* Our karma system would work by tracking *trends* over time. You would never perform a single action and get dropped down to the lowest rating. It tracks intent by building up a picture over time.
* It would very likely *only* apply to interactions with other players in most cases, so it would not interfere much with the rest of the game.
* Importantly, for combat encounters, it would a) only apply to criminal attacks, b) use as detailed and as comprehensive metrics as possible for determining relative ship powers, taking into account ship hull, load out, engineered upgrades and pilot rating, and only activate when there was a large disparity.
I guess, in response, do you feel it's completely fine for powerful ships to be able to wantonly destroy new players, for example?
Hello Commanders besieger, Jukelo and others!
Regarding the possibility that such measures might act as an incentive: it's an interesting point.
In response I would suggest that if the measures did do that then with the system in place it would be more likely that we could swap in measures that in no way could be seen as good things (such as shadow bans).
There's also the argument that it's not that we necessarily want to prevent Commanders from playing how they want, more that we want appropriate consequences for such actions.
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No one?
Not one comment on my frankly, genius solution to combat logging?
Bah, why do I even bother... Lol
This thread is quickly turning in to a salt mine anyhow.
In before the lock?
Not one comment on my frankly, genius solution to combat logging?
Bah, why do I even bother... Lol
This thread is quickly turning in to a salt mine anyhow.
In before the lock?
Make the crime system ON/OFF setting visible to other players then, so we can distinguish what they want. And only allow changing it from supercruise.
There are way too many low tier PVPers who turn crimes ON when they don't like the fight, or bait you into shooting first and thus making you wanted.
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palazo
Banned
Do it, but you go to have a lot of people who will be gone.
All the people who enjoy play in open and do pvp, and waste money and time on your Game and market.
We are a lot too, like this guys on that forum who you defend.
Also accompanied by bad publicity and do not let players make their way, breaking with the ideal of Frontier.
You do not include the ideas of the whole community sandro, you only included the idea of what people who play in "solo" and "private" want.
Go ahead, I'm going to look and laugh outside.
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sandro already ecluded those those
if a target it lawless, shooting it cannot lower your karma, as you did no criminal activity.
if its of an opposing powerplay faction in your powers juristidaction, its lawless too,
etc...
and since he said stealing cargo without killing the target is fine, piracy is possible too
Hello Commander zarking!
A very good question! It's quite possible that the karma system would not apply in anarchies (and powerplay, lawless areas etc.) or be severely reduced in effect. We're always looking to differentiate secure systems with lawless ones.
EDIT
Hello Commander Bunkerkind Anni!
Technically we could still make it apply in such areas if we wanted. For example, around starports in anarchies we'd still consider tracking collisions. You are right though, whenever possible we'd want to tie it to criminality.
A very good question! It's quite possible that the karma system would not apply in anarchies (and powerplay, lawless areas etc.) or be severely reduced in effect. We're always looking to differentiate secure systems with lawless ones.
EDIT
Hello Commander Bunkerkind Anni!
Technically we could still make it apply in such areas if we wanted. For example, around starports in anarchies we'd still consider tracking collisions. You are right though, whenever possible we'd want to tie it to criminality.
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It shouldn't apply to anarchies. Not even a little bit. You also need to rework anarchies BGS, they are way too hard to spread and way too easy to overthrow.
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It's been my experience with frontier that if you aren't specific when giving feedback on examples, those examples become set in stone, so I'm giving my 2p on this before it becomes so.
Removal of insurance is literally removal of ships. If you die without the ability to rebuy, you have lost the ship. Not a big deal until engineers came along. Now that the grind to engineer a ship to high levels is an integral part of the game, you're removing hours, days, weeks, even months of time spent grinding if you don't let them rebuy.
As for the pretty determined muderhobos... There's possibly the most famous one posting in this very thread.
*edit* Just to be clear here: I am all for strict dissuasive punishments for griefers, but taking away their ships is not a good one.
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No one?
Not one comment on my frankly, genius solution to combat logging?
This one?
It's not bad.. I don't think the current instancing model would allow for them to be dropped back into the same instance as the ship they were fleeing however, that ship has probably jumped to SC by then anyway (given they can wait 30 mins to relog). So, I'm not sure how effective it would be overall.
palazo
Banned
Can be..
I think a lot of people are angry because they think there's a chance they won't be able to rebuy their ship. The system should really just gradually increase rebuy, not entirely prevent them from rebuying their ship.
To add to this, can we make sure that crimes (excluding combat logging) aren't punished in anarchy systems?
Why would PvP players care about this? Unless they are in highly engineered ships and spend all their time seal clubbing, right? Most PvP duels are done with report crimes off and Sandy has already said karma would not apply in that case.
There are idiots who activate crimes when they're losing, or bait you into shooting first. Heck, there are people who have healers in their wing, and everyone except the healer has crimes OFF, so if you try to kill the healer to prevent healing, you get yourself wanted.
Players with crimes OFF should be clearly marked on your HUD, and it shouldn't be possible to activate crimes reporting in combat.
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If I can no longer play how I wish then there is simply no reason to carry on playing . If the carebears are crying that much why not just remove weapons completely, seems if you cry enough and spit the dummy out changes are made.
I suspect this is what Sandy had in mind.
I believe Sandy addressed this. The action would have to be a crime to trigger karma (except for things like combat logging).