It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

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Steam is the actual source, as recalled by myself and others who were paying attention at the time. Clearly you're not one of those people.
As said above, that's not how I remember it. Can't tell if you are wrong or if I am wrong without seeing actual numbers.




Yes, you did:

I didn't notice you people questioning the validity of the ED Steam reviews when they were approaching 90%.

Before Horizons.


Yet now that two years of 'improvements' have knocked the Steam score down to around 60%, we get FD apologists saying "might as well be Tumblr posts for all they're worth".



Read the reviews for yourself.

You'll see players who patiently gave FD a year (and more) to make good on the Braben promises, advertising and hype, before wising up.

And others who found their liking for the game steadily diminishing as Frontier nerfed weepons & ships, downgraded graphics, broke basic functions, added unpopular features such as CQC, PowerPlay and RNGineers.

Actually I did, and most of negative reviews are either
a) I don't like that they sold a Season Pass
b) I don't like that they introduced bugs with most recent update
c) I bought the wrong game

Fact is, for a substantial number of players, ED is now a worse game than it was two years ago.
Fact is, a substantial number of players are idiots. I honestly don't care.



Wrong. The 50% is for "ELITE DANGEROUS: HORIZONS" which is still on sale right now as both DLC and bundle, and hence still getting reviews.

Sorry, I was talking about the discontinued Steam version of Horizons:
http://steamspy.com/app/419270
I think the metacritic site also refers to this version. If you take a close look at the link you provided, you'll see that it basically doesn't exist. 2 Critic reviews and 70 User reviews compared to 54 Critic reviews and 1694 User reviews.

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You're not talking to me, but I'm pretty sure that ED used to be rated as either "Very Positive" or "Overwhelmingly Positive" on Steam. I distinctly remember that it was one of them in late 2015.

Very Positive = 80%-94% positive reviews

Overwhelmingly Positive = 95%+

So he's probably right.

Also, you could manage to be a little less abrasive about it all. Attacking the messenger makes you look bad, not him. There's no need to apologize and defend every contention and issue people have. It makes you look like a fanboy, and with respect...nobody wants to discuss matters with a fanboy. Mostly because they lack objectivity. Don't be that guy. If I'm telling you this, it's because you're pretty much that guy in here. It's not a good look. Be a fan, but not a fanatic. Love it, but never lose your objectivity. The game isn't your baby and you don't work for Fronter; every critique can't be treated as if were a personal attack on you. FDev certainly doesn't.


Could you please tell me where exactly I am defending FDEV here? By saying user reviews have allways been bad? Is that really what you expect to hear from a fanboy? Shouldn't I say something else, like "they will go up again"?!
 
I dont really need much more in th way of new features. Id like to see everything they have fleshed out. Everything needs to have depth added to it.
So much this.

It's sad to see the rest of the game neglected every time some new shiny gets added. They'll be so preoccupied with multi-crew now that they'll probably never fix the hundred or so audio bugs that their sound guys introduced in the last patch. And of course, all the VR visual bugs get put on the very back burner, so I'll be seeing disappearing landscape and mysterious moving shadows out of the corner of my eye for eternity.
 
"Everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot"

If you want to read it that way, fine. It's not what I meant though.

PS
I don't think the game is worse than it was at release. I don't even know how that's possible (since they didn't remove anything from it, apart from the Python nerf maybe...). It's not as good as I expected it to be though. I think this is the real problem here, the game didn't get any worse but it didn't became what we (or me or you) want either.
 
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+1 rep. I agree with OP mostly. The game, for me, has become toxic. The forum even more so in areas. The 'community' whilst having some great people now has some not so great people. Its deteriorated as far as I can tell significantly since release. I do think its worse since release. Only because everything released has had more bugs and flaws than you can shake a stick at. I had hoped for so much more. It has failed to live up to its potential and more often than not has diverged from my interest. I wish FD all the best and to the good people playing it. But for me its game over. For now. I'll keep an eye on it periodically until my lifetime pass expires perhaps(?). Bon voyage CMDR's.
 
Yes, it says undertale despite it's poor graphics and sound compared to Ed is actually a more loved game because the game aspect, that's tons more important that pretty graphics and sound, is really good. Undertale is also a critical darling of the gaming press so it's not even just a cult success.

You're really reaching here to come up with an excuse. You're correct that Undertale was hyped in the gaming press, which is happy to cater to the ignorant tumblr masses of today's modern youth. Which is also why I don't put much value in gaming press - much less "press" as a whole. Much like the internet, actually: read between the lines and take plenty pinches of salt with you, because most of it is going to be bogus on the surface.

The point stands that steam reviews aren't accurate, fair, or representative of what a game is actually like, and are very easily manipulated by hype trains - which goes both ways, and in Elite's case, has gone the bad way, mostly because Frontier hasn't ever really stirred up any hype trains. (Nothing anywhere close to level of NMS and Undertale, at least.)

I dont really need much more in th way of new features. Id like to see everything they have fleshed out. Everything needs to have depth added to it.

You do realize your post is self-contradictory in the extreme, yes? And could you be any more nonspecific? How is anyone supposed to help you or do something constructive when you're purposefully being so vague?

So when is it okay to review a game then? It seems people get upset if you play for a long time and then give it a bad review. wth? Whats the galactic review standards?

It's indeed very silly and hard to take it seriously when someone plays a game thousands of hours and turns around and says it was a bad game. Why play a game if it's not fun? Who on earth is sticking around with a game for 1000 hours, hating it all the while? It's nonsense. It's clearly the kind of thing that happens when a longtime player gets their jimmies rustled up over something and wants to create a stink about it, thinking they'll somehow get their way.

My 2 cents? It's okay to write a review when you're:
A. objective
B. observant
C. patient

Which unfortunately dequalifies 99% of reviews I've ever read on the web. Fortunately it's possible to read between the lines, read multiple reviews, look up videos and screenshots, and so on - many ways that thankfully do not rely strictly upon dubitable word-of-mouth.
 
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+rep agree with a lot of OP

My take;

Fdev are doing a lot of 'prep' work with feature they release, and i don't mean they get it ready before publishing it.

They are using each update/season as a ground feature for planned future content (that we don't know anything about). Planets would be the biggest example.. but you can tell from the language we sometimes hear (cant give direct links to references as they where over many live streams, and i'm paraphrasing)

...things like, 'It's all starting to come together' and 'it a foundation for more content (mega ships)' . well we don't want foundations, that's all well and good for Fdev, who have a bigger plan and a check list of prerequisites... we want things to play with, that feel complete.

Much of the game feels like 'place holders', and some of it looks like it wont change (as it's waiting on other features to be added, in a huge Dev web of functions). Its like being given a half finished panting to hang on your all and being told they will come back and finish in a year or so ><

I know its Fdev plan, to get evening perfect (I heard that, don't laugh), so we see this system of setting foundation.. with the occasional random content we don't really want (CQC), but its not working, the community has waited and waited... and we still have foundation feature after foundation feature

The system need to be re-jigged. you cant go down the road of building all the base functions before adding polished game play, even if there is a long term plan.
 
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I was talking about the 90%, genius.

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Sorry, but actually you are talking about 243, not 625. And yes, you asked for it ;)

the sample was made by 625 people, so the sample is made of 625 people.

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It is a shame as some of the 'game's' aspects are really good. Better than good.

Aside from battle and some graphics I don't know which is considered "better than good". Because the rest exists very rudimentary and far from even "basic"
 
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You're correct that Undertale was hyped in the gaming press, which is happy to cater to the ignorant tumblr masses of today's modern youth. Which is also why I don't put much value in gaming press - much less "press" as a whole. Much like the internet, actually: read between the lines and take plenty pinches of salt with you, because most of it is going to be bogus on the surface.


Have you even played Undertale? Because it sounds like you are judging it based on it's "nostalgic" graphics and a bias against media positivity. Undertale is rated high for one very valid reason: it's game mechanics and design are outstanding. It's fun, engaging, and full of possibilities which can keep players both interested and surprised even after many playthroughs.


Ironically, this is the very same reason why Elite's own reviews trend downward over time: a lack of engaging core game mechanics. Undertale has a very well designed core while Elite's has been left anemic and wanting ever since 1.0. Sure Elite as a game is better today than it was at 1.0, no question about that, BUT this is mostly due to new features and mechanics added since. Elite's core, the basics of the primary game mechanics that everyone utilizes, that has not been improved upon hardly at all in the two and a half years since launch. THAT's why the reviews for Elite have slipped over time.


There are a lot of great people at Frontier doing very good work with Elite, but the management tasked with planning the schedule for development priorities should really be contemplating a change in plan, because Frontier needs to address the core of the game if they really want the future of Elite to flourish and successfully grow beyond what it is today. If the core continues to go neglected then the community negativity will only grow and spread. A game with simple basic game mechanics but a laundry list of features is still just a game with simple basic mechanics...
 
We're sorry we trashed your house while we were re-modeling it. How's the hotel? Oh, you've been living there for two and a half years. Don't worry, it will all work out.

-Any contractor, who was paid in advance.
 
Have you even played Undertale? Because it sounds like you are judging it based on it's "nostalgic" graphics and a bias against media positivity. Undertale is rated high for one very valid reason: it's game mechanics and design are outstanding. It's fun, engaging, and full of possibilities which can keep players both interested and surprised even after many playthroughs.

You have got to be kidding me.

It's a knock-off of Final Fantasy-esque dungeon crawlers on the original NES (and *looks* like it) with mildly "challenging" mouse-waving puzzles, character designs straight out of an acid trip, and a linear game world that's married to a uninnnovate multi-choice questline.

It is a lovechild for ignorant hipsters who want to be retro and cool and don't know any better when there's so many games that were great for their time, so much better than anything Undertale represents, forgotten by time and no modern-day internet-fueled hype trains to boost attention with.

Meanwhile, Elite Dangerous has an essentially-unlimited galaxy to explore, tens of thousands of inhabited systems with even more factions to interact with (hello, *possibilities!* but who's counting, really?), and there are *constantly* new things and surprises to discover while playing Elite. The Elite subreddit has a dozen posts a day about CMDRs finding or learning something new and exciting for the first time (usually hidden between the salt-pile threadnauts, but those posts *are* there).

It sounds to me like you've an axe to grind about particular things you would like to happen in Elite, and a poor taste in what constitutes a real modern-day video game.
 
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+rep agree with a lot of OP

My take;

Fdev are doing a lot of 'prep' work with feature they release, and i don't mean they get it ready before publishing it.

They are using each update/season as a ground feature for planned future content (that we don't know anything about). Planets would be the biggest example.. but you can tell from the language we sometimes hear (cant give direct links to references as they where over many live streams, and i'm paraphrasing)

...things like, 'It's all starting to come together' and 'it a foundation for more content (mega ships)' . well we don't want foundations, that's all well and good for Fdev, who have a bigger plan and a check list of prerequisites... we want things to play with, that feel complete.

Much of the game feels like 'place holders', and some of it looks like it wont change (as it's waiting on other features to be added, in a huge Dev web of functions). Its like being given a half finished panting to hang on your all and being told they will come back and finish in a year or so ><

I know its Fdev plan, to get evening perfect (I heard that, don't laugh), so we see this system of setting foundation.. with the occasional random content we don't really want (CQC), but its not working, the community has waited and waited... and we still have foundation feature after foundation feature

The system need to be re-jigged. you cant go down the road of building all the base functions before adding polished game play, even if there is a long term plan.

I kind of agree with your general gist here. This is a tricky one. Frontier have chosen to develop the game live. That is in contrast to Star Citizen, which is more a WIP that is shown off at regular intervals.

Problem is, how do you arrive at complex, buffed, complete gameplay, with no dev time. Seems you cant.

So Frontier are adding what they think are valid, fun features, headline features, such as multi-crew, and along the way, more and more foundation, building block items.

I think patience has to be used, as, well, things wont happen over night ( a game of this complexity and scope will take about 6 years...).

I can see how recent additions can be combined with older, to improve the base game.

Think about power-play. It can (should!) be heavily revised to leverage the MUCH better mission system we have now, and the new locations (mega ships etc). Power Play is PURE grind. With rich, fun missions, I can see it being an option for people once more.

And I'm sure there are many such cycles of revision that Frontier can and will put in place, as things "come together".

I think a key system for game-play, is missions. Frontier have been working on this, and each release, they get better. This bodes well, more complex, rich missions are vital to the game. Please keep on expanding the missions systems FDev.

Look at planets. We can all agree, their pretty dull. Quite bare-bones. But we know FDev are beavering away on it.

One key thing Ill say here. I REALLY want the next few releases to focus on fleshing out the environment we have. Forget headline features. Give us assets, assets, assets please.

More variety in station interiors. Of adverts. Of ground vehicles (NPC for now...). Of outpost styles, station types, open cast mines, roads connection bases etc together, SET DRESSING to bed assets into their environment, such as rubble near walls, dust acretion from storms. etc.

Imagine ED is a model railway. On planets right now, you have cities, towns, outputs and ONE vehicle type, that is ONLY driver by players. So, our model is pretty damn poor. We have no equivalent of model rocks, trees, bushes gravel, etc, that are used in models to bed a building into its environment. locations just kind of sit there, on their environment. Not good. Think about the moon landings. The Apollo sites are peppered with footsteps, jet blasts and buggy tracks. This shows that humans have been there. If you look at all bases, nothing, clean dust around them. Like the asset was just plonked there.

Procedural generation is just fine, but you REALLY have to fight against things LOOKING procedural and un-natural. FDev IMHO need to raise their game in this respect, I feel. Lets make locations feel more bedded in, dirty, organic, unique. They made so many set dressing assets for Planet Coaster, and yet the same concept and production of dressing assets for the procedural system just has not happened here yet.

Another key element still missing, is, LIFE. Lets actually see people, not just Commanders. The scale of the game would really shine if we could see people within stations.Lets see some bustle, other than ships inside stations.

And really, Atmosphered planets HAVE to arrive this year. They may be a little ropey at first, maybe some aspects will need buffing. But lets get them in-game ASAP. I want to fly down and fly through clouds, skip over dunes and lakes, and land on a grassy plain.

Im happy enough then to see atmos planets buffed for quite some time (18 months) and then lets see the first iteration of space legs, with the ability to move in our own ships at first. With stations following 6 months after that (in space and on planet). And then a cyclical expansion of Space legs as more assets are produced, allowing commanders to move around more and more.
 
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Meanwhile, Elite Dangerous has an essentially-unlimited galaxy to explore, tens of thousands of inhabited systems with even more factions to interact with (hello, *possibilities!* but who's counting, really?), and there are *constantly* new things and surprises to discover while playing Elite. The Elite subreddit has a dozen posts a day about CMDRs finding or learning something new and exciting for the first time (usually hidden between the salt-pile threadnauts, but those posts *are* there).
.

Which Elite game are you talking about? This Elite Dangerous has essentially unlimited number of repetitive galaxies - that are essentially all the same; thousands of inhabited systems are all essentially the same; the factions and interactions are limited and all essentially the same. And there's little new to discover after a few hours of gameplay. The Elite Reddit has dozens or hundreds of posts each day about CMDRs looking for content or reasons to continue playing. This is the Elite being referred to in this thread. Not sure which game you're talking about.
 
It is a lovechild for ignorant hipsters who want to be retro and cool and don't know any better when there's so many games that were great for their time, so much better than anything Undertale represents, forgotten by time and no modern-day internet-fueled hype trains to boost attention with....

It sounds to me like you've an axe to grind about particular things you would like to happen in Elite, and a poor taste in what constitutes a real modern-day video game.

Damn, let the hate flow why don't you!!! Lots of insults there to people who's opinions disagree with yours, but that doesn't make you correct, just different. Great games do not need to have ultra modern realistic graphics in order to deserve praise.

While I do have an axe to grind with Elite's development, it's only because I love the franchise and want to see it succeed in the long term. I want those reviews to trend better than they currently do, I want Frontier to address the problems with their game to make it better. That said though, unlike you I'm not the one calling Elite fans "ignorant" nor "people in poor taste". You seem to be the only one sharpening axes here commander, try looking in the mirror and reflecting on your own thoughts maybe?
 
I kind of agree with your general gist here. This is a tricky one. Frontier have chosen to develop the game live. That is in contrast to Star Citizen, which is more a WIP that is shown off at regular intervals.

Problem is, how do you arrive at complex, buffed, complete gameplay, with no dev time. Seems you cant.

So Frontier are adding what they think are valid, fun features, headline features, such as multi-crew, and along the way, more and more foundation, building block items.

I think patience has to be used, as, well, things wont happen over night ( a game of this complexity and scope will take about 6 years...).

I can see how recent additions can be combined with older, to improve the base game.

Think about power-play. It can (should!) be heavily revised to leverage the MUCH better mission system we have now, and the new locations (mega ships etc). Power Play is PURE grind. With rich, fun missions, I can see it being an option for people once more.

And I'm sure there are many such cycles of revision that Frontier can and will put in place, as things "come together".

I think a key system for game-play, is missions. Frontier have been working on this, and each release, they get better. This bodes well, more complex, rich missions are vital to the game. Please keep on expanding the missions systems FDev.

Look at planets. We can all agree, their pretty dull. Quite bare-bones. But we know FDev are beavering away on it.

One key thing Ill say here. I REALLY want the next few releases to focus on fleshing out the environment we have. Forget headline features. Give us assets, assets, assets please.

More variety in station interiors. Of adverts. Of ground vehicles (NPC for now...). Of outpost styles, station types, open cast mines, roads connection bases etc together, SET DRESSING to bed assets into their environment, such as rubble near walls, dust acretion from storms. etc.

Imagine ED is a model railway. On planets right now, you have cities, towns, outputs and ONE vehicle type, that is ONLY driver by players. So, our model is pretty damn poor. We have no equivalent of model rocks, trees, bushes gravel, etc, that are used in models to bed a building into its environment. locations just kind of sit there, on their environment. Not good. Think about the moon landings. The Apollo sites are peppered with footsteps, jet blasts and buggy tracks. This shows that humans have been there. If you look at all bases, nothing, clean dust around them. Like the asset was just plonked there.

Procedural generation is just fine, but you REALLY have to fight against things LOOKING procedural and un-natural. FDev IMHO need to raise their game in this respect, I feel. Lets make locations feel more bedded in, dirty, organic, unique. They made so many set dressing assets for Planet Coaster, and yet the same concept and production of dressing assets for the procedural system just has not happened here yet.

Another key element still missing, is, LIFE. Lets actually see people, not just Commanders. The scale of the game would really shine if we could see people within stations.Lets see some bustle, other than ships inside stations.

And really, Atmosphered planets HAVE to arrive this year. They may be a little ropey at first, maybe some aspects will need buffing. But lets get them in-game ASAP. I want to fly down and fly through clouds, skip over dunes and lakes, and land on a grassy plain.

Im happy enough then to see atmos planets buffed for quite some time (18 months) and then lets see the first iteration of space legs, with the ability to move in our own ships at first. With stations following 6 months after that (in space and on planet). And then a cyclical expansion of Space legs as more assets are produced, allowing commanders to move around more and more.

Very good! [yesnod]
 
If you want to read it that way, fine. It's not what I meant though.

PS
I don't think the game is worse than it was at release. I don't even know how that's possible (since they didn't remove anything from it, apart from the Python nerf maybe...). It's not as good as I expected it to be though. I think this is the real problem here, the game didn't get any worse but it didn't became what we (or me or you) want either.

For me, one single addition makes the game worse than it was at release. Telepresence. I know it's a silly thing to get worked up about, but when the game launched I imagined myself as a "Han Solo" type character, making his way through the galaxy. I imagined cool encounters in port, and came up with head-cannon to explain any long breaks in the game, when my ship was docked for few weeks/months.
Telepresence destroys the plausibility for the universe for me, and my inclination to return has evaporated.
 
Have you even played Undertale? Because it sounds like you are judging it based on it's "nostalgic" graphics and a bias against media positivity. Undertale is rated high for one very valid reason: it's game mechanics and design are outstanding. It's fun, engaging, and full of possibilities which can keep players both interested and surprised even after many playthroughs.


Ironically, this is the very same reason why Elite's own reviews trend downward over time: a lack of engaging core game mechanics. Undertale has a very well designed core while Elite's has been left anemic and wanting ever since 1.0. Sure Elite as a game is better today than it was at 1.0, no question about that, BUT this is mostly due to new features and mechanics added since. Elite's core, the basics of the primary game mechanics that everyone utilizes, that has not been improved upon hardly at all in the two and a half years since launch. THAT's why the reviews for Elite have slipped over time.


There are a lot of great people at Frontier doing very good work with Elite, but the management tasked with planning the schedule for development priorities should really be contemplating a change in plan, because Frontier needs to address the core of the game if they really want the future of Elite to flourish and successfully grow beyond what it is today. If the core continues to go neglected then the community negativity will only grow and spread. A game with simple basic game mechanics but a laundry list of features is still just a game with simple basic mechanics...


meanwhile my one armed Legendry stone carver makes reliefs of how a roc nearly slaughtered our entire settlement and it's army of battle trained dogs which she finally finished off with her remaining arm. next to the entire story which reads like the nightmare version of lord of the Rings without a Ring. nd all that in the most rudimentary Ascii graphics. It is weird hwo such a small 2 man game actually can deliver epic stories.
 
I enjoy the game and find it very entertaining.

That being said Multi Crew is a waste of development time that could of been spent on other features. I feel like it shouldn't be in the game much the same with the wing mechanics. Elite Dangerous is a single player game I would rather keep it that way, even if we can all play together online.

Other than that I like what FDev are doing so far and I have no other complaints, because I know we are still in the early stages of this game and what is potentially got to come from the development cycle latter on.
 

verminstar

Banned
20 hundred hours...logged in to browse through several pages of salt one the 3 threads I can be bothered to follow...only two of those 3 threads are active.

20 hundreds and a nibble...(10 minutes later)...whatever. I had this idea to write something long and rambling but...I wont...this forum needs an enema...Ill flush meself out ^
 
20 hundred hours...logged in to browse through several pages of salt one the 3 threads I can be bothered to follow...only two of those 3 threads are active.

20 hundreds and a nibble...(10 minutes later)...whatever. I had this idea to write something long and rambling but...I wont...this forum needs an enema...Ill flush meself out ^

I get deja vu every time I login recently. Same old threads, same old arguments, same old lockdowns for unfair pulling of opponents chest hair.

It's like marking first year students essay papers after they copy and paste from the same Google source...
 
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