I just told you that a few posts ago - you even responded directly to that post now you're asking the question again?
Elite: Harmless - Karma System aka "be the Tamagotchi" - FRESH SALT, MINED RIGHT HERE
- Thread starter ranje
- Start date
I just told you that a few posts ago - you even responded directly to that post now you're asking the question again?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I did include the word "compelling" - and there is no compelling evidence to suggest that the removal of the hollow ID marker would improve the situation.
Seeing as you've been here as long as I have, right from the start, how are you not aware of the screams of rage even making the NPC's slightly harder caused? No, they won't make them harder.
That would mean them having to break into the code to make a specific type of OP ship which basically gives you boss battles in space. Great way to take the game..... Not only that, if we're now introducing Boss Battles to ED, then they're better be good loot drops for beating them.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The marker is a double edged sword - it identifies all players to potential attackers and, at the same time, identifies potential attackers to all players.
Thanks for the list.
I don't know how you can say that. Not being able to tell who is/isn't a commander is the most obvious and easy fix to stop ganking. Tell me, how many radar contacts are you going to scan before you give up on bothering to interdict? By the time you found a player (let's just say that a scan reveals a player), they would be so far away that you'd never catch them.
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So you agree that listing player names in an instance is the way forward? That removing the "Kill me I'm over here" markers is a good thing?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I was not referring to general NPC difficulty - just those sent specifically against a CMDR as a consequence - tailored to provide a suitable response to their actions - and probably as part of the karma system rather than Crime & Consequence.
I'd suspect that NPCs are already tailored to suit the player (in a single player instance) to some extent - if that is the case then tailoring based on a player's karma would also be possible.
Even if there were another method of ID-ing players simpler than scanning them in game, it'd still remove the simplest, fastest method and thus improve the situation. Yes you'd also have to change the names so that no-one (or everyone) were called "Cmdr". Yes players would have to fly like an NPC to increase their chance of avoiding notice (then again, so would potential gankers), but all that still means the simplest, fastest, most reliable method of identifying players was removed.
I see where you are coming from, I just think it's not really necessary to get rid of the 'problem situations' we currently have.
My suggested approach is an extremely low hanging fruit, development vice. It wouldn't take much effort to implement and test.
It's always wise to start with the simple approach, as you have nothing to lose if it doesn't work out.
I think it would work rather well, as it prevents repeat crime in security systems and by that, will fix the 'CG camping problem'.
Explorers returning from long trips can chose a system with decent security, to sell their data. We also have the option to switch to solo/PG for the last jump, if we 'have to' sell at Obsidian.
The only real problem is PvE bounty hunters with limited trigger control, that will have to leave their favorite hunting grounds for a week.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It would not stop ganking. It might make it more time consuming in terms of target selection but it would not stop it.
Nope.
I don't think you quite understand the mechanic. Tell me how you're going to target a specific commander with the removal of the identifier.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Does ganking require the target to be specifically identified?
So oyu ignored the fact we're introducing boss battles now. Also, they can't change the BGS missions without it affecting the every mission - this is why Quince exists and when they nerf Robigo, it nerfed all missions.
Now if the AI are like that, how are they going to send a BOSS SHIP to you? Are we going to have a new rank called ELITE +1? If they tweak the code for any other rank, it affects every NPC.
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That wasn't the question. If you're ganking you need to select a player. I don't know how you're going to manage that when you can't tell who's a player. You might get lucky, you might get AI. How would you know though? How many AI are you willing to shoot just to get a player occaisionally?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you two are answering two different questions. If I'm right, Jex is saying that it would make it significantly harder (or even nigh on impossible) to target other players specifically, while Robert's pointing out that ganking (significantly tougher players picking on smaller ships) would still occur, even if they couldn't be ID'd as a player specifically.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That presupposes that all NPCs use the same presets.
NPC difficulty is a combination of the capability of the AI itself and the tools with which it can work - if the weapons on the tailored NPC ship were enhanced then the same AI would very probably pose a greater challenge to the player.
I don't expect, even if the hollow markers were to be removed, that we would be unable to scan a player to determine whether they were a player or not - harking back to the DDF discussion that Sandro initiated regarding a Pilots' Federation ID Transponder (that could be switched off).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Well as we're designing our system right here, we can presuppose what we like and what we would put in it
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Well as we're designing our system right here, we can presuppose what we like and what we would put in it
I'd expect that the system is already designed, in relation to NPCs and the AI associated with CMDR encounters.
Also, I don't expect that "we" all want the same things.
I'd feel messing with security forces should mess with your karma, since they're special. Like us guys from the Pilots Federation.
Regular NPCs are schmucks who didn't make it in Pilot's Federation school, have no class, and are ruled by decision processes which begs for a little chlorine in the genepool. No one cares about them.
#someofthemdo
#npclivesmatter
More than players, in my opinion.
We are the homeless nomads of the galaxy. We should be threaded with skepticism, wherever we go. We should have build restrictions, not the NPCs.
Players should look at the hollow icon with a breath of relief, because we knew it was just another crappy player ship.
If I have a best friend in this galaxy, it's probably Universal Cartographics.
Heading back to the bubble after a weeks-long trip to the Eta Carinae system. Wanted to see the first hypergiant humans ever discovered. Getting my name on a few new system is a nice perk. So's the exploration data I'm bringing back. It's enough to make friends and influence people. Good thing too... I'm in serious need of some new friends.
At least, that's what I'm thinking as I see the latest results from the nav router. I was hoping I could find a quick hop to Wolf 406, but the stupid line-sighting system keeps flashing up Reaper territory. I'd even jump into Imperial space if it meant not having to deal with those pirates. Psychos and scavengers - real puppy-killer types - and my ship's stripped back to the bare essentials... I'm flying a tin can, and I don't have anything to trade for safe passage. Not that your average Reaper if down for gabbing anyway. True, some other group might have taken over that system in the meantime, but I don't want to meet any faction that could dispossess the Reapers either.
No, I can't trust the computer on this one. Just gonna have to be old fashioned. I grab the pad I keep stowed in my chair and get to work.
I should have taken the time to make some friends on the way out of the bubble. Now it's just a solid wall of lawless systems I've gotta run through, but that's too risk. I'm in a bucket built for a marathon, not a sprint. I need a way in - and that's when I spot it: Three Sister Inc. Moira, Janey, and Elvira. Don't let the last part fool you. They may sound like your average corporatists, but they run Diver's Keep, a sleazy outpost on the way to Barnard's Loop. It's far enough from the main star and shipping lanes that Fed patrols don't bother with them. But the occasional gun runner will. I feel slimy just thinking about them, but I was a lot more careful my last time out, and they might just be my way through now.
Pull up the comms; let's see if they're still in business.
***
Someone must be watching over me. Janey answered when I called in. Seems she still remembers the Naikun job I pulled for them. Nobody wanted a run into high sec totalitarian space. I was too green to understand why. The Navy is worse than pirates some ways. Got interdicted twice on the way, and had to dodge two more scans before I could even dock. Nobody likes carrying a hold full of toxic waste either, but Janey and her sisters don't deal in slaves which is just how I like it. Made a pile for them, and a stack for myself. They don't forget that kind of favor, so I guess this is payback. Certainly hope it's not 'cause of my looks. You'd think with business booming she and her sisters could get those teeth taken care of. I'm not above using a smile if I think it'll get me where I want to go, but I've got no interest in spending all my time huffing Riz on the end of space with only Janey and her sisters for company. Still, if it keeps the wheels greased, maybe I can share that salvage I came across on my way back.
Anyhow... I've got my way in.
Might go legit when I get back. At least for a while that is. High sec trading ain't very profitable, but it's boring. Boring sounds good for a while. Making a few Alliance friends of late. Seems they hate slavers as much as I do. They've been talking about trading in their ships for something with teeth and going hunting. Thinking I might join up. Safety in numbers. Dangerous work hunting in Federal and Imperial space, but if you're careful you can make it work. Bring a few credits, grease the right palms, and they'll let you take care of their problems for them. I know, sounds backwards.
But I really hate slavers.
I punch up the route for Diver's Keep. I'm still going to have keep an eye out as I get closer, but a safe port should make things a lot easier. Fed and the Sisters keep the worst of them out, and there's a couple of safe routes on the way to Farseer Inc. if I change my mind when I get back. Felicity gets a lot of people coming work her FSD work, but I had my eye on a surface scanner design she said could get me readings twice as fast as anything else on the market. Said if I was really interested, she might even know a guy who could do better, but gave me a list and said she'd see what she could do in the meantime.
Pretty sure I caught her eye as well, but that's a whole different ton of fish. She's just keeping tabs on me. Told me to visit when I got back. Think I'll go see what she meant after all.
Well, that's about as ready as I can get. Time to punch up the drives and jump out of this system. Found a ringed earth-like. That's gonna be popular.
Countdown's almost over. Stars are beginning to blur. Let's see what's next.
***
(Any C&P system that gets me closer to ^^^this^^^ is a good step in my book. I applaud FDev for looking into it.)
Heading back to the bubble after a weeks-long trip to the Eta Carinae system. Wanted to see the first hypergiant humans ever discovered. Getting my name on a few new system is a nice perk. So's the exploration data I'm bringing back. It's enough to make friends and influence people. Good thing too... I'm in serious need of some new friends.
At least, that's what I'm thinking as I see the latest results from the nav router. I was hoping I could find a quick hop to Wolf 406, but the stupid line-sighting system keeps flashing up Reaper territory. I'd even jump into Imperial space if it meant not having to deal with those pirates. Psychos and scavengers - real puppy-killer types - and my ship's stripped back to the bare essentials... I'm flying a tin can, and I don't have anything to trade for safe passage. Not that your average Reaper if down for gabbing anyway. True, some other group might have taken over that system in the meantime, but I don't want to meet any faction that could dispossess the Reapers either.
No, I can't trust the computer on this one. Just gonna have to be old fashioned. I grab the pad I keep stowed in my chair and get to work.
I should have taken the time to make some friends on the way out of the bubble. Now it's just a solid wall of lawless systems I've gotta run through, but that's too risk. I'm in a bucket built for a marathon, not a sprint. I need a way in - and that's when I spot it: Three Sister Inc. Moira, Janey, and Elvira. Don't let the last part fool you. They may sound like your average corporatists, but they run Diver's Keep, a sleazy outpost on the way to Barnard's Loop. It's far enough from the main star and shipping lanes that Fed patrols don't bother with them. But the occasional gun runner will. I feel slimy just thinking about them, but I was a lot more careful my last time out, and they might just be my way through now.
Pull up the comms; let's see if they're still in business.
***
Someone must be watching over me. Janey answered when I called in. Seems she still remembers the Naikun job I pulled for them. Nobody wanted a run into high sec totalitarian space. I was too green to understand why. The Navy is worse than pirates some ways. Got interdicted twice on the way, and had to dodge two more scans before I could even dock. Nobody likes carrying a hold full of toxic waste either, but Janey and her sisters don't deal in slaves which is just how I like it. Made a pile for them, and a stack for myself. They don't forget that kind of favor, so I guess this is payback. Certainly hope it's not 'cause of my looks. You'd think with business booming she and her sisters could get those teeth taken care of. I'm not above using a smile if I think it'll get me where I want to go, but I've got no interest in spending all my time huffing Riz on the end of space with only Janey and her sisters for company. Still, if it keeps the wheels greased, maybe I can share that salvage I came across on my way back.
Anyhow... I've got my way in.
Might go legit when I get back. At least for a while that is. High sec trading ain't very profitable, but it's boring. Boring sounds good for a while. Making a few Alliance friends of late. Seems they hate slavers as much as I do. They've been talking about trading in their ships for something with teeth and going hunting. Thinking I might join up. Safety in numbers. Dangerous work hunting in Federal and Imperial space, but if you're careful you can make it work. Bring a few credits, grease the right palms, and they'll let you take care of their problems for them. I know, sounds backwards.
But I really hate slavers.
I punch up the route for Diver's Keep. I'm still going to have keep an eye out as I get closer, but a safe port should make things a lot easier. Fed and the Sisters keep the worst of them out, and there's a couple of safe routes on the way to Farseer Inc. if I change my mind when I get back. Felicity gets a lot of people coming work her FSD work, but I had my eye on a surface scanner design she said could get me readings twice as fast as anything else on the market. Said if I was really interested, she might even know a guy who could do better, but gave me a list and said she'd see what she could do in the meantime.
Pretty sure I caught her eye as well, but that's a whole different ton of fish. She's just keeping tabs on me. Told me to visit when I got back. Think I'll go see what she meant after all.
Well, that's about as ready as I can get. Time to punch up the drives and jump out of this system. Found a ringed earth-like. That's gonna be popular.
Countdown's almost over. Stars are beginning to blur. Let's see what's next.
***
(Any C&P system that gets me closer to ^^^this^^^ is a good step in my book. I applaud FDev for looking into it.)